MRJ 211 ?

[Tim Hale]

 

It looks to me from the sequence of posts that Keith Norgrove advised you where the MRJ articles were.

 

Did he or is that an assumption?

 

The internet provides a number of alternative methods of search including the excellent MRJ index, unfortunately MRJ 138 provides only a MkII version of the trackplan but this would not be apparent unless a full search had been completed rather than a cursory query.

 

I can only agree with Kenton's comment "But yet again we find a layout article without a clear track plan (yet again in MRJ) one of the most annoying omissions."

 

 

Tim

 

 

[craigwelsh]

The Scalefour Society forum provided no better answer than my own efforts and I finally found a plan in MRJ 138 published in 2002, obviously Wild Swan expects readers to hold on to every copy rather than include a plan (did they keep a copy?) that would have made some sense of the otherwise excellent article in issue 211.

 

I note with some interest that Don had abandoned steel rail for the more user friendly nickel silver, as long term P4 protagonist, presumably Don has good reason.

 

Tim

Most people do keep every copy and that's why I linked to the index, I dont think anyone was going to check all 5 previous articles for you.

 

Don explains in this article the issues he had with steel rail..

[Enterprisingwestern]

"But yet again we find a layout article without a clear track plan (yet again in MRJ) one of the most annoying omissions."

 

This is not a personal criticism, so please don't take it the wrong way, but why the desperation for a trackplan?, takes up valuable photo/description space IMHO

[Zero Gravitas]

Having the trackplan is what enables me to put the photos and description into context. And I don't think I'm alone in this. Why else would Ralph Clark's (and CR Potts') "Historical Survey of Seelcted Great Western Stations" run to 4 volumes?

 

ZG.

[westerner]

I must agree with ZG a layout plan is a must in any article about a lyout in whatever magazine to enble the reader to put the text and photographs into context, it also gives a truer picture of the layout than just photos alone which by getting in close can make a layout look far bigger than it is.

[Adrian]

Having the trackplan is what enables me to put the photos and description into context. And I don't think I'm alone in this. Why else would Ralph Clark's (and CR Potts') "Historical Survey of Seelcted Great Western Stations" run to 4 volumes?

Doesn't this then support Enterprisingwestern's point? If space is valuable and limited what would you drop first, photo's, description or trackplan?

In fact Don's layout has featured in several issues, one of which did include a trackplan, albeit maybe not quite the current version, so maybe when an article does run to several "volumes" they can squeeze in a trackplan.

[Decapod]

The Scalefour Society forum provided no better answer than my own efforts and I finally found a plan in MRJ 138 published in 2002,

Tim

 

Of course Tim as a Scalefour Society member you could always have contacted me (membership secretary), to see if Don's contact details are available. Don really is one of the nicest and most obliging people you could ever hope to meet.

 

All the Best

Danny

[Zero Gravitas]

Doesn't this then support Enterprisingwestern's point? If space is valuable and limited what would you drop first, photo's, description or trackplan?

In fact Don's layout has featured in several issues, one of which did include a trackplan, albeit maybe not quite the current version, so maybe when an article does run to several "volumes" they can squeeze in a trackplan.

 

Well, yes and no... I agree with Enterprisingwestern that if you have a track plan, then there is inevitably less space for photos and description. However, my personal opinion is that if space is valuable and limited I would rather have one less photo and a track plan, than no track plan and an extra photo.

 

But of course that's just me.

 

ZG.

[Guest oldlugger]

Doesn't this then support Enterprisingwestern's point? If space is valuable and limited what would you drop first, photo's, description or trackplan?

In fact Don's layout has featured in several issues, one of which did include a trackplan, albeit maybe not quite the current version, so maybe when an article does run to several "volumes" they can squeeze in a trackplan.

 

Why not do what all other model railway magazines do and offer more pages per £1? Am I alone in thinking that this highbrow publication is a wee bit thin in terms of physical thickness, regardless of the argument about more advertising being evident in other MR magazines?

 

I can't believe there's a debate here about whether there's adequate space in a mag for a track plan! I agree with Alan (westerner); a track plan gives a layout provenance and puts a series of otherwise hanging photographs and text into context. An analogy would be a novel without a plot.

[Poggy1165]

An analogy would be a novel without a plot.

 

Not uncommon at all in 'literary fiction'. Which I suppose suggests this is a matter of taste. I like a track plan myself (as well as novels with plots), but MRJ probably thought the one published in an earlier edition covered it in this case. In other cases they (sadly) don't seem to think it matters at all.

[Zero Gravitas]

 

Why not do what all other model railway magazines do and offer more pages per £1? Am I alone in thinking that this highbrow publication is a wee bit thin in terms of physical thickness, regardless of the argument about more advertising being evident in other MR magazines?

 

I can't believe there's a debate here about whether there's adequate space in a mag for a track plan! I agree with Alan (westerner); a track plan gives a layout provenance and puts a series of otherwise hanging photographs and text into context. An analogy would be a novel without a plot.

 

For me, the analogy would not be quite so much a novel without a plot, but a city guidebook without maps - photos and descriptions of the attractions, but with no way of knowing how they are located relative to one another or how to get to them.

 

ZG.

[craigwelsh]

Considering MRJ has no staff as such (Paul Karau or a guest editor just collecting articles) there isn't anyone apart from the author to do a track plan. I've emailed Don now anyway to ask him.

 

As for the thickness of MRJ I think its restricted to a certain amount of articles and the length varies a bit to get them in adequately up to a possible limit on binding. It'll always be more expensive than the red tops though as its more specialist circulation.

[Kenton]

Doesn't this then support Enterprisingwestern's point? If space is valuable and limited what would you drop first, photo's, description or trackplan?

In fact Don's layout has featured in several issues, one of which did include a trackplan, albeit maybe not quite the current version, so maybe when an article does run to several "volumes" they can squeeze in a trackplan.

As it was my original quote. I'm happy to answer that - drop some of the description. So often the description in MRJ is excessive and simply pads out the pages. That includes this specific article. It is not a direct criticism of the author, just that the text could have been easily edited to fit. Alternatively add another page and even defer an article to another issue. Text alone describing a layout is about as useless as a set of kit instructions without a diagram.

 

Fortunately now most of the magazines have realised this and include a full track plan, but MRJ, seems to be unable to or unwilling to come out of the dark age. There are ways of avoiding publishing the plan in the magazine such as making it available online - but that is also one step beyond for MRJ. As much as I love the magazine and despite its turbulence from welcome to unwelcome articles it does remain important part of the month. But there is room for improvement.

[Horsetan]

.....MRJ, seems to be unable to or unwilling to come out of the dark age.....

 

Which, strangely enough, is its Unique Selling Point. It probably still uses the carrier pigeon for internal correspondence......

[pete_mcfarlane]

As for the thickness of MRJ I think its restricted to a certain amount of articles and the length varies a bit to get them in adequately up to a possible limit on binding. It'll always be more expensive than the red tops though as its more specialist circulation.

I reckon that if you took a couple of the glossier and more popularist model railway magazines, and stripped out the adverts, 20 pages of reviews, news, 4 page guides to how to assemble Superquick kits and other such stuff, you'd probably find the word count to be less than the MRJ.

[Guest oldlugger]

I reckon that if you took a couple of the glossier and more popularist model railway magazines, and stripped out the adverts, 20 pages of reviews, news, 4 page guides to how to assemble Superquick kits and other such stuff, you'd probably find the word count to be less than the MRJ.

 

Ummm; not sure about that. Various grades and thickness of printing paper seemed to be used by the model magazines which may account for squashing more within the publishing remit. I'm looking at an MRJ now and there are 43 pages in it. An old RM I have from a few years ago has circa 80 pages of layouts; ideas; readers letters, etc and that doesn't include reviews or ads.

[PWSlack]

Yep. The whole thing has arrived, with tail lamp attached.

[Re6/6]

Which, strangely enough, is its Unique Selling Point. It probably still uses the carrier pigeon for internal correspondence......

 

.....I believe that they do have a typewriter!

[pete_mcfarlane]

Ummm; not sure about that. Various grades and thickness of printing paper seemed to be used by the model magazines which may account for squashing more within the publishing remit. I'm looking at an MRJ now and there are 43 pages in it. An old RM I have from a few years ago has circa 80 pages of layouts; ideas; readers letters, etc and that doesn't include reviews or ads.

Ah yes, but it wasn't the Modeller I was thinking about when I said "glossier and more popularist model railway magazines". I was thinking more of a couple of the other mags, which the last time I looked at them seemed to be mostly reviews and photos of layouts.

[Buckjumper]

 

Ummm; not sure about that. Various grades and thickness of printing paper seemed to be used by the model magazines which may account for squashing more within the publishing remit. I'm looking at an MRJ now and there are 43 pages in it. An old RM I have from a few years ago has circa 80 pages of layouts; ideas; readers letters, etc and that doesn't include reviews or ads.

 

But we can all play that little game. RM has 63 pages of 'content' (excluding reviews & ads) in the current issue, and an old MRJ 'from a few years ago' extracted from the pile at random has 58.

 

The word count of a single page in an article chosen at random in the current RM was 254, I stopped counting at 500 words on one page chosen at random in he current MRJ.

 

Why not do what all other model railway magazines do and offer more pages per £1?

 

Seems like you get more words for your £ in MRJ...

 

At the end of the day stats are irrelevant; surely the deciding factor is if you like RM and it does it for you, then £3.60 is a good buy. If you like MRJ and it does it for you then £3.95 is a good buy.

 

Guess I've gone from being a highbrow rivet counter to being a highbrow word counter...

[Tim Hale]

Most people do keep every copy and that's why I linked to the index, I dont think anyone was going to check all 5 previous articles for you.

 

Don explains in this article the issues he had with steel rail..

 

Don't need to ask anyone to check the previous articles as there is an online MRJ index and I cannot understand your need to confirm that Don had issues with steel rail as I had already mentioned the fact, maybe a problem with invisible ink on my part?

 

As far as the need for a trackplan, I fail to comprehend why an otherwise excellent description of a layout is not accompanied by a trackplan- surely part of the description is the visual as much as the written word? However as any inferred criticism of MRJ is a source of much angst, I will gently bow out of any further comment.

 

Tim

[BlackRat]

Mines not arrived yet, is the Christmas Crossword back?

[Arthur]

No Crossword but there is an 'Operations' Competition by Don Rowland based on his fictional Alpraham Sidings.

 

Arthur

[craigwelsh]

Don't need to ask anyone to check the previous articles as there is an online MRJ index and I cannot understand your need to confirm that Don had issues with steel rail as I had already mentioned the fact, maybe a problem with invisible ink on my part?

 

Tim

 

You said I note with some interest that Don had abandoned steel rail for the more user friendly nickel silver, as long term P4 protagonist, presumably Don has good reason.

I said Don explains in this article the issues he had with steel rail..

 

I was saying he explains in the article the reason he changed from steel rail.

 

What I was checking with him was about a trackplan.

There was a track plan of my layout in a distant issue of MRJ and there is one cunningly concealed in the latest one. If you take the Control Diagram with the Christmas Competition and mentally cut the main line between Alpraham Sidings and Alpraham Junction then imagine it curved round to meet the main line beyond Rhuddall Heath No2 at the far end, that's the layout., a roundie roundie in effect.

 

Will has also said pretty much the same on the Scalefour website now too.

 

If you want any better you'll have to ask him for an invite to visit his house though I wouldn't suggest its because you found his article useless worthless! edit: my apologies to Tim for misquoting though I didn't think either description was justified.

 

Please guys remember MRJ started to showcase the sort of article that wouldn't appear in the mainstream mags. Its by modellers and for modellers. The content is always pretty much as submitted. My articles didn't get any editing though did pick up a couple of typos i the digital-manual-digital bit. I understand Paul Karau now has a computer but Wild Swan does not.

[Penlan]

The other item by Don, 'Runner Wagons', I'm surprised the Big Four (apart from the GWR apparently) didn't have any drawings at all of Runner Wagons, especially Derby as those LMS one's that Don refers to have 1923 dated plates on them, I'm sure Don must have made extensive enquiries, but........

 

The LNWR had very similar 'Shunt Wagons', 101 in fact, although only two (Dia 52) are in the 1903 LNWR Wagon Dia Book and these two are considerably different to the other 99 listed in the 1919 LNWR Wagon Stock listing.

 

I have a Micofiche print from long ago (Armstrong Microfilming) which MAY have come via the HMRS. It's Wolverton Drawing No. 35, dated 10-3-1895, scale 1" to 1' (1/12th) and that is the basis of the 99 other Shunt Wagons.

 

My model of it, made in the early 1980's is below - The Wolverton Drawing No. 35 shows later modifications such as Sand Boxes and pipes at either end, which I haven't included.

 

Re. Track Plan, if Don did a detailed one for plotting his trackwork, fair enough, but if not, that's a lot of work to make a drawing up for something that's in front of you. I am not detracted by the lack of a drawing, the article isn't about planning a layout etc., it's about his experiences moving into a new house and the consequences of reduced space, a Conservatory and being pass three score year and ten....... there's plenty to do at that age without making life easy for someone else.