RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted January 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2012 Unfortunately it doesn't work like that on ships; in an emergency scenario the crew are responsible for ensuring passengers wear their lifejackets correctly - they would be held responsible should an accident befall a passenger during an abandonment. As an aside, would a lifejacket really be much use if your plane flew into a mountain? I didn't realise that, I presumed that the drill was to make you aware of what you had to do including putting on the vest. I was looking at the charts for the course the Concordia took, it seems they took an 8M draught ship through a 10M deep channel, I would of thought the Squat would mean another 1.2/3M making her draught in excess of 9M. I would think on an aircraft the vest would make a nice pillow, the problem would be on Ryanair finding the 2 Euros to release it from its holder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 For those interested I have attached some pics of todays navigational aids available to mariners ... Her final position. Thanks for the graphics. The final position in this graphic however is not consistent with photos which place the ship immediately outside the harbour entrance at Giglio Porto where it looks like the ship was deliberately grounded. Once all the rescue and then investigatory activity is completed, this will be an interesting recovery operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted January 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2012 Yes I did notice that, I did wonder about power failure giving an incorrect reading but that should not happen, it may also depend on being in a sattelite shadow (I can't think of the correct term). For those interested in a modern ships bridge here are a couple of pics from 2009 This is the central viewing position. Close up on instrumentation. I have more but they can be a bit boring as they are just shots of desks and instruments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 What saddens me about this sorry episode, even more than the loss of life, is the attitide of the top management of the company. When I was working I had a boss who would always back his staff in any situation until they were found guilty in a court of law. You might well get a right "going over" in private, but in public you could rely on backing for any action that you took, however bad it might be presented in the media. Spineless is putting it mildly. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TomE Posted January 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2012 Obviously any loss of life is never a good thing, but what amazes me most about this, is that regardless of any shortcomings or failures in procedure, the casualties potentially number only in teens, and not the hundreds. Given there were over 4000 people on the thing, that's not a bad ratio! Edit: I also wish the BBC would stop wheeling out that plonker Simon Calder every time there is something transport related in the news. For a supposed expert to compare this to the Titanic disaster is laughable at best. Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 According to this article, the ship began to list to starboard with the turn to port some 30 minutes after the accident. This explains why despite the extensive damage to the port side, including the enormous rock wedged in the hole, the ship settled to starboard. Given that the rock broke off and is wedged in the ship's side only a metre or so below the waterline (eyeballing the photos), it will be interesting so see whether there is any material damage on the bottom of this ship, and whether this accident was related to a lateral grounding during manoeuvering. How dark is it at 9:30pm CET at this time of year on the Isola del Giglio? I assume it is fully night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 .... I think maybe we have just had another "Titanic" moment .... ....only due to lazy journalism. I'd be more inclined to think this was a Herald of Free Enterprise / Zeebrugge moment. Relatively shallow waters, and possible lack of attention by the crew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2012 Talking of Titanic moments, the Birmingham Mail is reporting that one of the people rescued is related to the violin player in the orchestra on that ship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 A terrible tragedy - they are reporting on the news over here this morning that the head waiter was on his last cruise before retirement. The captain had called him up to the bridge for a close last journey past his home island. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 Talking of Titanic moments, the Birmingham Mail is reporting that one of the people rescued is related to the violin player in the orchestra on that ship. In the unlikely event that this person ever boards a cruise-ship again, I suggest he/she makes that fact known! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 Edit: I also wish the BBC would stop wheeling out that plonker Simon Calder every time there is something transport related in the news. For a supposed expert to compare this to the Titanic disaster is laughable at best. Look on the bright side - at least it isn't Christian 'rail expert and historian' Wolmar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2012 A terrible tragedy - they are reporting on the news over here this morning that the head waiter was on his last cruise before retirement. The captain had called him up to the bridge for a close last journey past his home island. He probably wasn't expecting to be dropped off so near to home! Kevin Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 In the unlikely event that this person ever boards a cruise-ship again, I suggest he/she makes that fact known! Then he wouldn't get on board - he'd be repelled! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Depot Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Interested in what will happen with the ship longer term, how will it be recovered and moved. Will it be sold for scrap or refurbed and renamed etc? Presume the sea water is hardly doing the electric cables etc much good at present. Will this be the biggest ship recovered, almost need a tv program like monster movers to cover it! Just interested in the options, once the search period is finished. cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I see the vultures are beginning to circle - 70 passengers have now filed a class action lawsuit against Costa. Didn't take the ambulance chasers long, did it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16587849 - latest news, including allegations that the Captain changed course so he could wave at his family. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Interested in what will happen with the ship longer term, how will it be recovered and moved. Will it be sold for scrap or refurbed and renamed etc? Presume the sea water is hardly doing the electric cables etc much good at present. Will this be the biggest ship recovered, almost need a tv program like monster movers to cover it! Just interested in the options, once the search period is finished. BBC article explores the options, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16573312 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 What saddens me about this sorry episode, even more than the loss of life, is the attitide of the top management of the company. When I was working I had a boss who would always back his staff in any situation until they were found guilty in a court of law. You might well get a right "going over" in private, but in public you could rely on backing for any action that you took, however bad it might be presented in the media. Spineless is putting it mildly. Bernard In a similar theme, it used to be the case that seamen had their wages stopped from the moment the "Abandon ship" order was given. I had an uncle in the Merchant Navy in WW2 and it happened to him twice when his ships were torpedoed. This rule did not apply to the RN sailors although I think they were on even lower pay at the time. I don't know if this practice still applies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 Interested in what will happen with the ship longer term, how will it be recovered and moved. Will it be sold for scrap or refurbed and renamed etc? Presume the sea water is hardly doing the electric cables etc much good at present. Will this be the biggest ship recovered, almost need a tv program like monster movers to cover it! Just interested in the options, once the search period is finished. cheers Keith Carnival's statements thus far on the financial impact on the company seem to be based on the fact that the vessel will be (somehow) recovered although they have said that they don't expect it to be back in service this year (or some journo wasn't listening to what they really said?). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Look on the bright side - at least it isn't Christian 'rail expert and historian' Wolmar I would be wary of making remarks like that. A little bird told me that he has been known to inhabit the forum. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2012 Assuming the translation is reasonably accurate, the phone conversation between the Coastgaurd and the Captain appears somewhat career limiting.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16599655 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2012 Carnival's statements thus far on the financial impact on the company seem to be based on the fact that the vessel will be (somehow) recovered although they have said that they don't expect it to be back in service this year (or some journo wasn't listening to what they really said?). It's beyond belief that it can be recovered, surely. The thing has been immersed in salt water for several days, that isn't going to do the electrics, furnishings or internal structure any good at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's beyond belief that it can be recovered, surely. The thing has been immersed in salt water for several days, that isn't going to do the electrics, furnishings or internal structure any good at all. But the electrics and furnishings are the cheap bits - as long the steel structure of the ship is sound, then providing the technology and know how exists to do it, then she is emminently recoverable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's beyond belief that it can be recovered, surely. The thing has been immersed in salt water for several days, that isn't going to do the electrics, furnishings or internal structure any good at all. Quite agree but that is what they have factored into their losses according to one report (the only one I've seen which quotes numbers). Perhaps that was based on where it was before it slipped into slightly deeper water - and is clearly pre any sort of survey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's beyond belief that it can be recovered, surely. The thing has been immersed in salt water for several days, that isn't going to do the electrics, furnishings or internal structure any good at all. I suspect the biggest limiting factor on whether the ship can be salvaged will be whether the massive visible gash can be made water tight along with any other damaged sections for a voyage to a dry dock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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