sunshine coast Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Hi Mike, I guess I will trust to your first hand experience on this one - you are the horses mouth. Having typed that, it seems to read as potentially more offensive than it should - none implied! It is always good as I have said above to challenge preconceptions. I think many of us assume runner truck + diesel shunter = track circuit issues. Is it just at Paddington that this was the case? Could some chariots have trundled out of region for this purpose? I am sure that I have seen more than one photo of chariots and little shunters labeled in this fashion. Is it another case of the collective 'knowledge' being wrong? I don't know if you are a GWS man but if not, you should be - the signalling guys would love a chat with you! I like being right but I also like to learn new stuff too - cheers! My specialist subject is GWR steam loco overhaul and maintenance...* All the best, Castle *But not paint or liveries (see above!). I think Mike is talking specifically about the Western region + shunters truck.....other areas did use runners for track signalling purposes... Quote from The Lairds "Bradfield" topic....post no.185 Baby Deltic, on 15 June 2011 - 09:35 , said: The runner was to increase the number of wheelsets across the track circuits to ensure they operated correctly. Sometimes small 0-6-0 shunters would disappear off the signalling displays. Stationmaster replied.. Exactly - a particular problem on some ER signalling schemes was that there could be either short track circuits or in some instances short stretches which were not track circuited so the runner in effect extended the wheelbase of the Class 03. Regards Trevor.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2012 Castle - no offence taken (or even noticed to be honest). I seem to recall seeing pictures of a shunters truck (known as a 'runner' or 'dummy' to many Shunters) being used with a 350hp diesel shunter (later Class 08) in the vicinity of Paddington but then A Pilot (the last Class 08 turn in the area) ran around quite happily for some years without one and without any track circuit problems and we had them out on running lines all over the place elsewhere on the Region without any trouble at all in respect of track circuit operation. And the small shunters cheerfully ran around e.g. the Swindon area for some years - before my time on the railway but I'm unable to find any reference to them needing to have another vehicle attached while the railbuses and various PWay on-track machines did have Instructions in respect of the fact that they couldn't be relied on to operate track circuits. I realise a negative (in respect of Instructions) doesn't make a positive but I've yet to come across anything and the Western was always very keen on this sort of thing. And I have found an Instruction which says the PWM 0-6-0s (650 - 654) could be relied upon to operate track circuits - and they were considerably lighter than an 08 although I don't know what their wheelbase was. I think that things suffer from a carrying elsewhere of the Eastern/North Eastern habit of using runners with 204hp shunters and this has somehow been attributed to the Western as well. As you say it is I think something to do with 'collective knowledge' and not some much wrong as an example from one place being misapplied elsewhere. It happened recently in a 'Model Rail' article and the original source, it turned out, was nothing to do with what had happened on the Western. But notwithstanding all of that I would like to hear of any genuine and clearly known examples on the Western as it's certainly something which never seems to have cropped up with real evidence. PS I'm not GWS (my old membership number was in the low hundreds as it happens) and I used to be very much in touch with one of the S&T folk at Didcot although I've not come across him for some years. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 I just had to remember to compare you to the correct end of the horse to avoid upset... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted May 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hi Castle I have just read your series of posts and must say they are absolutely superb, for anyone new to weathering your descriptions are first class (do you have a teaching background?) and easy to follow. As a Didcot man myself and growing up in a time when the shed was active I am always interested in Didcot GWR/BR and try to get there as often as possible. My brother was a fitter at Didcot and Brother in law was a driver so I did get to go around the shed frequently. My biggest regret is that I did not get into photography earlier so that I could have made a pictorial record. Your 18K is a stunner I wouldn't mind having a go at that myself, but sods law would dictate that as soon as I got everything for the kit someone would commission Dapol or Bachmann to make one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Hi All, Thanks for the kind words 7013 (or do I just call you Bristol Castle?!), It is great to hear about the 81E connection and maybe we will meet up there sometime? I will be the one with the black hat on who is looking in a very frustrated way at chunks of 4079! It is, at times, the default state for a Didcot loco fitter... I may or may not have done a bit of teaching... It usually takes one to know one though, you too? I hope you give the weathering a go and post your results. As I say, it's not the right way to do it, it's just my way. Keep tuning in and I will do my best to keep everyone entertained (even if it is just through having the wrong colour tank tops and not knowing what my runner is for)! All the best, Castle P.S. I would have a go at the SilverFox 18K as it is a really good entry level sort of a conversion project and it is good fun too! As I have said elsewhere on this forum, I got a PDK 72XX kit bought for me by the other half for Christmas so I could do 7202... Trust Mr Kholer to bring out that very loco! Oh well, never mind, I like building kits! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Hi All, Here is another one from the archive: Prairie Procrastination (part 2 of 3) Good things come in small (prairie) packages. 4575 Class 'Small Prairie' No. 5572 is a derivative of the earlier 45XX Class of tank locomotives. From number 4575 onwards, the engines were fitted with range extending 1,300 gallon slope top side tanks. They proved to be very useful machines, capable of short burst into the 60mph range, with the light yellow class axle loadings and a not unreasonable tractive effort for their size. They could be a little light footed but on the whole, these were capable bits of kit. No. 5572 herself was very nearly the last of her kind built at Swindon in 1929. She worked throughout the south west of England and in south Wales in her career and very unusually for a 4575 Class loco, she was actually auto fitted. She is the only one of her type in preservation to be so equipped in service. Some others have been retro fitted since 1968. Withdrawal of the 45XX class began as early as 1950 but No. 5572 hung on against the onslaught of branch line closures and dieselisation until April 1962 and from there went to a certain South Wales scrapyard. It was saved from oblivion by the Great Western Society in August 1971, and had the first phase of its restoration done at the now defunct GWS Taunton Depot. The restoration was completed at Didcot after she was transferred there in 1977. It has seen service both at the railway centre and on preserved railways away from Didcot in the past but is now on the static exhibit list. Yet again, Bachmann come to the rescue here and their excellent 4575 model is gainfully employed. The usual detailing with extra lamp irons, etc and new couplings are done in standard Castle fashion and a general spruce up all round completed the first stage of the rebuild. The big difference of course is that this engine is auto fitted. Thankfully, this gear is available as part of the Mainly Trains 14XX detail kit that I had already fitted to my model of No. 1466. Another detail kit was duly ordered (I know the bits are available separately but my friends and I have found use for the vast majority of the bits so I didn't feel that this was too much of an issue) and made its way to chez Castle The brass and white metal bits slowly found their way onto the engine. The buffer beam detail requires slight bending to get it to fit. The white metal battery box was put under the driver's steps and the various cable trunking and pipes were represented using brass wire. The weathering, real coal and other odds and ends were finished up and an auto fitted 4575 Class engine in 4mm scale was born! T.T.F.N.! All the best, Castle 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Hi All, I felt that it had been far too long since my little Didcot thread got updated so here we go. I have been a very good boy and have been trying to finish off a few long term pending items. TOAD No. 56400 is now done and when I go on shed at the weekend I will get the required prototype portrait picture so I can post it up. The Dia. A38 Hawksworth Auto trailer No. 231 is also nearly there apart from some figures and the odd detail here and there so I will post this up fairly soon too. My camera related problems have stopped thread progress until know but that is sorted and as soon as the decorating of the room with the PC in it is done (!), I will post a few pictures. I now have a bit of a need to do a few wagons I think... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Hi All, The white (well, bauxite) van man... The V34 Goods van was built between 1941 and 1945 and there were around 1200 of them in the end. They, like many of the GWR van fleet, were based on a RCH design and in their various forms were built in huge numbers. These 12 ton vehicles had a 9' wheelbase, were 17' 6" over headstocks. They were the basis for a wide range of other vehicles including the MOGOs and several of the smaller FRUIT and banana designs too. The example at Didcot is owned by our friends in the 813 fund and has recently been repainted into a new livery. As a result it is in excellent condition and is well worth a look if you visit. The model vehicle is based on the Ratio kit that is basically to the V23 diagram. The whole range of vans between V21 and V38 are pretty similar and most can be modelled straight from the kit as is or with modifications to the brake gear. The only exception to this is the V36 that has plywood sides (coming soon!). The mouldings from Ratio are very nice and crisp so it promised to be a pleasurable build. I keep track of the collection of the Didcot vehicles in model form by writing out copious notes and that way purchases can be mapped out and when ordering from a supplier, I can keep postage costs down by ordering in bulk rather than a bit here and a bit there. These LMS buffers are a case in point and I recently ordered a large batch from Parkside along with a few kits. I like the detail and strength offered by the whitemetal castings and these ones proved to be no exception. I like to build my vans so that the three main areas of colour can be seperated until painted (basically, I'm too lazy to mask it all up!) and I find it very easy to work this way even if some kits, notably Parkside Dundas ones, need modification to achieve this. The first of these to be done is the roof and once I have cleaned it up with a first pass of the file, I put it to one side so I can check the fit with the body when I have done that. I then move onto the body. Once the body is done, I check the fit of both the floor and the roof and fettle as required. I use the floor to help hold the body square as the solvent dries but I am careful not to fasten it in place! Then the buffers are fitted in a press fit hole - if you get this tight enough, there is no need for glue and stems help hold the floor in. The sole bar and W iron / axle box mouldings are then fitted after the bearings hole have been gently reamed out with a drill to press fit. The whole van is then assembled to check fit and how it runs before the under frame is detailed. A few extra details alongside the standard bits and pieces available in the box. The tie bars are replaced with brass wire as I don't like the moulded plastic ones. These always seem to bend, break and generally look untidy to my eye. A whitemetal vacuum cylinder of unknown origin was pressed into service along with a few pieces of thin plastic rod for brake gear gubbins. I also use Liquid Gravity and thin superglue to provide a bit of weight and a few extra strips of styrene to provide pockets for the weights. I also cut out slots to accommodate the instanter couplings as it would be tricky to pop the body off again with these in place. One last trial fit and the addition of some lamp irons, vacuum pipes and the couplings and we are ready for the paint shop! A first coat of Halford's grey primer is followed by a coat of matt black paint to provide a background for the colours. I find that as long as you don't apply it too heavily, Phoenix paints tend to shy away from panel lines after a coat of acrylic matt black. This give a beautiful shaded effect for zero effort. It's a secret of mine so don't tell anyone, ok? Then the correct Phoenix shades are lightly sprayed on followed by a dash of acrylic gloss varnish on the sides where the transfers have to go. The fully painted components look like this when done: This includes the hand painting of the black for the buffer beams and vacuum pipes on the ends. The transfers are a combination of Modelmaster and CCT products and after they are dry, a coat of matt acrylic varnish is shot over them and then the van is assembled minus wheels and couplings. A dose of weathering powders, acrylic washes and a final coat of varnish later and another one joins the little Didcot fleet! I have a stack of unpainted vans to do so I shall stop chatting and get on! All the best, Castle 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Glad to see that you've gotten over your camera issues. A very nice build. The Little Didcot fleet must be getting pretty big. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Hi Kev, Thanks for the kind words (and to everyone who pushes the little like this button too!) - this is one of my blow the cobwebs out type quick builds so I can regain the vital element - mojoium! The little Didcot fleet runs (in terms of things sat on axles not in packets and boxes!) to all the coaches that are available ready to run (none are weathered and 190 needs paint) and 290 & 231, all the ready to run locos (except the King, 72XX and 4079 and again, not all in a finished state) plus 18000 and about a dozen or so wagons and brown (or maroon) vehicles. So we are getting along. Although, even if not all of them are relevant for my time period, there are over 40 coaches, more than 50 wagons and about 30 locos and other forms of motive power in the 12" : 1' 81E collection. I won't run out of hobby any time soon... All the best, Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Lots of excellent posts still to come then. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Given that you're modelling whats at Didcot, does that mean you're gonna be making a model of yourself in due course Castle? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hi Coldgunner, That sounds like a challenge - in fact, it would be a bit of a laugh if all of us on RMWEB built representations of ourselves in our chosen scales! Hmmmmm, let me think about this one... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Tempting prospect myself, though I can't guarantee total accuracy. On another note, anyone know where I can find a 1:148 scale superman? Look forward to seeing your next developments either way. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Hi All, A Mink A (x2) The Mink series of vehicles is a telegraphic code that covers a huge range of different vehicles in the V diagram. Even within just the short wheelbase 4 wheel Minks, there is huge variation. Different heights and brake set ups were experimented with early on so this whole area is a potential minefield for modellers and historians alike! The design gave rise to several vehicles in other diagrams and conversions to workshop (CC diagram) vehicles were done too. The pair at 81E were built within the years of 1924 & 1925 to Dia. V14. The V14s were built over a long period between 1912 to 1927. Those built before 1923 were, as built, rated for a 10 ton load and those after went up to 12 tons. A total of 3,841 vehicles inhabited this diagram in the end so they must have had something going for them! No. 101836 has lead a fairly anonymous life but No. 101720 has carried the distinctive livery of a vehicle caught up in the trade of flour delivery. This van is currently undergoing a very thorough restoration by 81E's wagon team and should be done towards the end of this or the beginning of next year. The new Parkside Dundas kit can be employed here and what a great little kit it is too! There is a massive range of different options that are open to the builder in terms of brakes ends, etc that gives a the opportunity to build in Diagrams V12 (I have an extra one of these kits to bash into 81Es Pooley van), V14 and V16. The additional ends with the closeable vents look like very useful castings. Safely into the box of 'extra, unused but I will definitely use at some point in the future modelling bits' with these I think! I built up the body first... ...and then fettled and trial fitted the roof. With judicious use of a grind stone on my Dremmel, I nibbled out the original under floor location tab made by Parkside and created my own with some Evergreen strip styrene section. Then it was under frame time and the usual careful reaming with a 2mm drill so the bearings sit snugly into their seats is the opening salvo. The under frame is then assembled on the glass sheet and tested for the all important free running and straightness. Then, after a trial fit with the body and roof, we have a delve into the sprues to get all the detail parts out for the brake gear, etc. Then the styrene rod is cut to size and fitted in place and the tie bars are removed and replaced in brass wire. I know they should be flat section but I want something fairly durable here. We then go for one, final trial assembly where I failed to notice the obvious mistake with the position of the brake handle or the fact that I haven't put the lamp irons on - d'oh! I also applied some liquid gravity, scale couplings and a nice set of white metal buffers at this stage. Then I did it all over again, this time still forgetting the lamp irons but at least getting the brake handle in the right place. The guy who built these was obviously an idiot! It was at this stage that I decided to do one in late GWR livery and one in BR fitted wagon bauxite. Which means I didn't have to separate one of them into 3 parts for painting. Oh well... To this end, I fixed the vacuum pipes to the GWR example as I wouldn't have to paint the buffer beams black and I find that these vertical stand type ones can get in the way a bit if you fix them on before hand. I am now thinking of marketing my latest sensation - Mink A on a stick! Available in a range of yummy flavours! Such as: Primer Grey! Matt Black! Bauxite AND GWR Grey! Hmmmm, anyway... A coat of gloss varnish and then a mix of Modelmaster, CCT and Fox transfers produced the correct decals. Then it is time for matt varnish and assembly.Once weathered we ended up with No. 101836 in GWR grey (with fixed brake handles)... ...and No. 101720 in early BR bauxite and ready for the road. The intention is to work toward a completed fitted van train of 12 vehicles behind little No.3822. The vans in question (although not necessarily in this order) at the moment are as follows: Mogo, Asmo, Bloater, LMS Ventilated Vans (x2), Tevan, Mink A Vans (x2), Mink G, V34 Van, V36 Plywood Body Van and a Toad A. As I write this, the loco has been renumbered and had scale couplings fitted but needs weathering and crew and the V36, LMS Vents and the Toad A need building. I am also considering the early and less than successful weathering job on my Bachmann Mogo too. I could repaint it. I suppose I could cut my losses and build the Ratio kit instead - has anyone out there any thoughts on this? What are the various merits and drawbacks of each? The Bachmann offering seems pretty good to my eye. Anyhoo - there we are, another grand and fanciful scheme from the addled mind that I inhabit! All the best, Castle 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Nice to see the new Parkside Minks built up, Castle. Looking great. My only comment is about their axleboxes - I know the later 12T V14s had larger ones (9" x 4.5"), but those Parksides look the wrong shape and too big to me. (Also, check your s/c bufferhead diameter - should be 12".) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Hi Miss P. You are good to spot the buffers - Well done! I missed that one. Never mind, I will get to that some other time, they are only pressed in after all. I must of ordered the 16" rather than the 13” GWR S/C ones that LMS do... I know what you mean about the boxes - the shape is pretty much there but they are a little on the chunky side but given that it is a fairly integral part of the moulding of the sole bars / W irons / etc, so that was one I was prepared to forgive and forget for ease of construction and the integral strength that a single piece moulding offers. Cheers for the help! Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2012 I bought one of the Parkside Mink kits at Railex on they day of their release, it's a great kit. I built mine up as a V12 with the louvred vents. Regarding your comment about the brake lever, when you say it was in the wrong position, do you mean because you mean to have it modelled with the brakes on or the fact that the handle was sat behind the headstock? The one downside to these kits (and the Opens the chassis is derived from) is the brake lever is the wrong shape with no swan neck and a pig to fit in the "off" position. So nothing to do with the builder being an idiot I spotted a mistake on the underframe with your DCIII gear. The cross shaft at the left side of your pic (vac cylinder end) should be shorter and not cross the centreline of the wagon. There's lots of pics and info in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I spotted a mistake on the underframe with your DCIII gear. The cross shaft at the left side of your pic (vac cylinder end) should be shorter and not cross the centreline of the wagon. Not so, V12 had offset V hangers, V14 and V16 did not so there is no mistake in this respect. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) Hi All, Regarding the V hangers - what Rich said... I know some of them were offset but I checked against the real thing and they were in the centre so I went with that. If you have a look here it gives you a better side on picture that shows them to be central: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/101836/101836.html In some photos it is REALLY difficult to tell either way - especially when you know that some are supposed to be off centre! True enough what you say about the handles Ric, they don't go into the right place do they? I felt that an attempt at consistency in Little Didcot world would be in order so all mine are as per the final picture. All the best, Castle PS: I ordered the right buffers today Miss P - cheers again! Edited August 18, 2012 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Regarding the V hangers - what Rich said... I know some of them were offset but I checked against the real thing and they were in the centre so I went with that. If you have a look here it gives you a better side on picture that shows them to be central... I don't think that Ric was referring to the central/offset V hanger question. I understood his comment to be about the cross shafts at either end carrying the brake levers. In most cases, the length of the one carrying the ratchet is about two thirds of the chassis width, whereas the one at the other end is about one third to just less than half of the width. See the second and third photos here, actually of Didcot's P17 ballast wagon. As with all GWR standard components there were. of course, variations and your V14 may be one of them Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted August 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Hi, yes I meant as Nick has said, I'm talking about the crossshaft for the handle, (apologies if that's no the correct term for it), not the central V hanger. Here's the underframe of my unfitted O11 kit: It's the short shaft at the left. If this was a fitted underframe, the vac cylinder would be at the far side of this pic (e.g. effectively the same view as your pic). As I'm sticking with tension locks for now, I can't fit the longer shaft on the right side. I found a pic of my V12 and I took the same route as you for the handle, exactly the same position! I do have some Bill Bedford DCIII gear in brass that I've been using to update some old kits (Ian Kirk Mink C, Ratio Mink amongst others) that were very light in the underframe area. An etch of just the handles would be perfect to update my Parkside and Coopercraft kits. Maybe I need to ask the question to someone... I wasn't aware that the V12's had an offset central V hanger though, so this means kit and my build of it is incorrect in this respect. cheers Ric Edited August 19, 2012 by 57xx 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hi, yes I meant as Nick has said, I'm talking about the crossshaft for the handle, (apologies if that's no the correct term for it), not the central V hanger. sorry, my bad. I wasn't aware that the V12's had an offset central V hanger though, so this means kit and my build of it is incorrect in this respect. Neither was I until I built mine and someone pointed it out. It was too much hassle to change the etched components once the livery was already complete! There is a drawing in 'The Wagon Bible' of a V12 with a central V hanger and no ventilators, as rebuilt?, but the caption suggests that it should probably show bonnet ventilators and plate 508 shows such a vehicle with bonnet ventilators to still have an offset V hanger. Early V14 also had offset V hangers - it's a minefield out there even when you think you understand it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Hi All, As long as we are all wrong with our van under dangly bits together! I won't tell if you guys don't - nobody reads my thread much anyway... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 nobody reads my thread much anyway... Castle There are probably many more people reading your thread than you can imagine! Missy 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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