Castle Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Hi All, Firstly, a friend of mine has started making noises about getting a kit to build No. 1340 Trojan (you know who you are!) and there were other noises that went along the lines of "know how you like building brass kits..." He is keen to learn how to do these things so we may see that one built here eventually as a joint effort. 7013: Thanks for the kind words - it is always nice to know that Little Didcot is enjoyed! I hope someone finds inspiration or at least the confidence to have a go here. I am humbled by your compliment to my 'does it look right enough?' style of model making. Let's face it, I model in OO, I can't even get the distance between the wheels right... All the best, Castle Edited October 9, 2012 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Hi All, Details, details... Having ruminated over the various options to fit the frames, I decided to commit a sin and cut up the rather nice frame etchings to provide me with locating units and to provide a bit of 'fill in' for the frames of the 1361 class which are longer than that on the Electrotren offering. The front and rear of the frames were removed as they also had the benefit of having the integral life guards etched into them as well and they have the correct shape to them too. At the front, after marking where the front of the Electrotren chassis had to go, I cut the frames to that length and then soldered them in place at the correct width. I then found a scrap of brass sheet and cut out the bizarre shape in the photograph below. The idea of this is that it fits into the slot in the front of the Electrotren cylinder block thus locating the chassis in place. The motor goes through the hole where the firebox would sit and then slides forwards, and this locks the frames in place. What's more - this mad idea worked! At the rear, I just cut the frames off, soldered them in place and gently fettled the front edge until everything would slide together. Once that was done, the life guards were folded into shape and away we went - bingo! On a roll thought I, boiler time! Again, I could have spent time swearing at a piece of brass, getting increasingly frustrated as the thing continued to be not round or I could go to my local model shop and pick up a bit of brass tube that is a quarter of a millimetre too small and have far less grief. Welcome to today's obvious answer! One trip down the road later and little measure and nibble with the Dremel and diamond saw bit gets us here: The slot for the gearbox was cut out and once it had all been test fitted, the barrel was soldered to the smokebox and then the whole assembly was soldered into place. The half etched sheet that was intended to become the boiler was then pressed into service to form the firebox / motor and gearbox visual shield type arrangement. This was then all soldered in place. After attaching the saddle, it was time to attach the buffer bodies. Rather than cleaning up the castings provided, I ordered some Slater's Churchward style buffers from Mainly Trains. Again, I tried the buffer alignment with my 41XX and it remains to be dead on! There are innumerable details to put on little 1363 so we had better crack on! The most significant of these is the cab roof. there is a nicely designed little framework that goes underneath to which the main roof is soldered. Then it is a case of the fiddly end pieces and the two rivet strips that represent the runners for the cab roof shutter. There are 23 handrail knobs of two sizes to fit and these took a bit of time to do. There was also the larger castings of the tank filler, dome, chimney, etc that were tinned and then briefly sweated on with a mini blow torch. The safety valve bonnet is just being balanced at the moment as it needs to be in plain brass and as it is made of brass I won't be attaching it until I have painted the rest of the engine. The smokebox steam pipe covers need attaching now as do the injectors and the other running plate bits and pieces. The tool box is a lovely touch and I am sure would make a great accessory if provided as an extra detail (hint, hint...). I have put the first of the leaf springs in place here and I have left them a little taller to help to hide the really obvious red gears in the Electrotren chassis from normal viewing angles. As reported by Collett2251's thread - the cab and bunker beading is a real finger toaster! Copious amounts of the carborundum grade Anglo Saxon was expended here too Chris! More bits on... The steam heat pipe (No. 1363 shunted boat trains so she required the ability to operate this equipment) Needs to run along the fireman's side running plate and this was fashioned from soft brass wire. The last of the details are now on and I have to turn my attention to the frames. Here is an overview of where I am at the moment with buffer heads in place for the first time. That's enough for now - little 1363 needs her chimney and front hand rail and lamp iron straightening, a darn good clean and then it's time for tea and buns... All the best, Castle Edit: Because it seems that I managed to delete the top bit of my post! Edited October 12, 2012 by Castle 18 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 She's coming along very nicely. Keep up the good work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Just read the entire thread from start to finish......Excellent stuff with some useful tips and very inspiring. Best I get the kettle on first ......before I rush headlong in and glue summat wrong ! Edited October 14, 2012 by lofty1966 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Hi Lofty, Thanks for the kind comments and welcome to the forum. Some people think of it as a mere cuppa - to some, like us, it is brain lubricant... Nothing would happen either on my workbench or at Didcot without it! All the best, Castle Edited October 14, 2012 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell Model Railway Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 very nice indeed, great work doing something similar myself... all be on a larger scale, and with white metal. Looks great and fits the chassis well, its quite a good chassis for little tank engines like this. keep up the good work I look forward to seeing it progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hi Matt, Thanks for the kind comments. I think that this could be a really useful chassis for kit bashers like ourselves. For the GWR geeks like me, I think to it might be useful for not only the 1361s but also the later 1366 and the earlier 1392 classes too. The only compramises being a slight difference in the wheels and, having looked at the thing assembled, I don't think that the cylinders are quite as inclined as they are on the real No. 1363 but that may just be my eyes! If it is, it is very marginal and not worth fussing over for the convenience of a plonk and play chassis. the only changes I have made to it is to fit the vacuum pump and to trim off the quite large circuit board for DCC as I think that when I get round to this, it can be done a bit neater and smaller with a hard wired chip. I am sure that my fellow RMWEB types can think of far more uses for this chassis than I can! I look forward to catching up with your build on you thread later on. All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hi Matt, Thanks for the kind comments. I think that this could be a really useful chassis for kit bashers like ourselves. For the GWR geeks like me, I think to it might be useful for not only the 1361s but also the later 1366 and the earlier 1392 classes too. The only compramises being a slight difference in the wheels and, having looked at the thing assembled, I don't think that the cylinders are quite as inclined as they are on the real No. 1363 but that may just be my eyes! If it is, it is very marginal and not worth fussing over for the convenience of a plonk and play chassis. the only changes I have made to it is to fit the vacuum pump and to trim off the quite large circuit board for DCC as I think that when I get round to this, it can be done a bit neater and smaller with a hard wired chip. I am sure that my fellow RMWEB types can think of far more uses for this chassis than I can! Castle Looking very nice - no compromise on the chassis between a 1361 and a 1366 (unless you count the multfarious routes of injector overflow pipes which seemed to bedevil the 1366s) and the wheelbase is ok for a 1392 but they had wheels 2" smaller in diamteter (new) that the two Swindonised designs. Cylinder inclination is 1 in 11 according to the RCTS. BTW are you going to add the vacuum pump? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hi Mike, Thanks for the information here - as you mention and I said earlier, I figure that we can loose the vast majority of the difference in wheel diameter in arguing the old 'tyres on the last turning' blag in the main if anyone is that geeky to notice! I must admit to not measuring the inclination of the Electrotren cylinders as I saw it as looking that particular gift horse a little too closely in the mouth... It looks right when seen without a drawing held right next to it. The vacuum pump is already on and working! Various bits of brass strip & tube, a few bits of styrene to detail it and a bit of thin piano wire with a Gibson hand rail knob soldered to the cross head later and it works like a charm. I will post a picture or two later in the week when I get 5 minutes. I have been building wardrobes this evening... All the best, Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Hi Lofty, Thanks for the kind comments and welcome to the forum. Some people think of it as a mere cuppa - to some, like us, it is brain lubricant... Nothing would happen either on my workbench or at Didcot without it! All the best, Castle 'Tis not just "Brain food" more like the Elixir of Life ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hi All, All hands to the pump! So then, now I have to get the running gear that once was little industrial and turn it into one of the hallowed products of Swindon. The biggest missing bit from the point of view of the motion is of course the vacuum pump that is powered by the driver's side cross head. This will require some grade A cobbling together as, this is one casting that wasn't in the box. The first thing I did was to get some brass strip, solder it into a 'T' shape and then solder a bit of brass tube to the end of it. This was then trimmed and fettled until it was the right size and shape to represent the pump body and its mounting. The brass strip was then stuck to the Electrotren frames with cyanoacrylate in the right position. This picture shows my second attempt at this. Enough said... Those red rods and cylinder cladding lining have to go too. My next aim was to get the thing working, figuring that if I got that far then I could make it look pretty afterwards! I had several mad schemes as to how to get the pump rod to attach to the cross head but the maddest of all was to solder up a bit of steel music wire into a Gibson handrail knob and then with due disregard for all that was sensible, I decided that the only way this was really going to work was to solder the thing to metal cross head. Figuring on a get it hot quick and get out fast policy, I turned the heat setting up to the metaphorical 11 on the soldering iron, sloshed on a bit of flux and went for it! With baited breath I put the loco on the rolling road and applied power... It worked - phew! I also fitted the etched cylinder drain cocks and mechanisms from the kit by drawing a centre line on the bottom of the cylinder and dipping the mounting pins of the etch in red acrylic paint to mark their position. A little light drilling and they were soon fitted. A few styrene details were then added to make the vacuum pump look the business. The bolts will be represented with rivet transfers after priming. The last things to consider now are the rear sandboxes. These are, due to the rear sections of the frames being attached to the body, going to be soldered to the main lump instead of the frames themselves. They are made from some box section brass from the spares box, cut to shape with a bit of sheet soldered over the top to finish. They are then fixed in between the frames and the cab steps and here they provide a great bit of structure to this area. Thanks to the great advice proffered by my friends on this forum, I managed to purchase a mini grit blaster unit and with some trepidation, managed to fire it up to produce the clean little specimen shown here. I had still to do the cab roof at this point. So, time for a little paint later on but for now it's my bedtime! All the best, Castle 13 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This is turning into a fine little locomotive Castle. That 'working' vacuum pump certainly is a wonderful detail addition to her (and I gather a bit fiddly to make). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hi 69843, The pump isn't too bad if you get your calculations right the first time... I didn't put to tight a hole on the end of the pump body either, relying on the handrail knob to do the structure bit there just like some of the RTR offerings from messers Hornby and Bachmann. The thing to remember about the real thing is that the actuating rod itself floats about quite a lot in the pump as there can be all sorts of movement in the crosshead and the other bits it is attached to. If you pull the rod right out and wiggle it up and down and left and right, there is quite a bit of play which prevents the thing wearing out so the fact that the hole is quite large is almost prototypical! Thanks for the kind comments and likes everyone! All the best, Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium southern42 Posted October 22, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2012 A cracking loco, Castle. Delighted you got it to work. Can you post a video? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collett2251 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hi Castle, Looking good, I am currently musing over how to fit up and get said pump working. I have the luxury? of a lost wax casting for mine, albeit a solid casting (2 hours later with a pin vice and .6mm drill) it is now bored and ready to go. Tricky bit coming up, drill motion bracket, line up pump and solder to motion bracket without filling bore with solder, fingers crossed. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Figuring on a get it hot quick and get out fast policy, I turned the heat setting up to the metaphorical 11 on the soldering iron, sloshed on a bit of flux and went for it! With baited breath I put the loco on the rolling road and applied power... It worked - phew! It's amazing how often you can get away with this kind of behaviour and it really can work a treat. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) Hi All, Polly: thanks for the compliments! Would I like to post up a video? Yes! CAN I post a video? Hmmm... I will get back to you on that one! Chris: looks like I might have had a blessing in disguise with this one! The motion bracket on the Electrotren chassis is plastic so a bit of cyanoacrylate and kicker later and we were away! I only soldered up the main pump bracket. Your 'Big 13' is looking very nice too! Rich: is this model making or a smash and grab raid? There's no need to decide! All the best, Castle Edited October 22, 2012 by Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Hi All, Let's paint the town red (or primer grey - and then black but the buffer beams can be red!). Just a short update this time as I have been a bit busy... Having grit blasted little No. 1363, I then took the bull by the horns and decided to do a proper job on this by using etching primer. A can of UPOL Acid #8 was purchased and of we went into the spray booth (garden). The results are as shown here. The other things done here were that a small quantity of red oxide primer was squired into the lid of a can and carefully brushed onto the new vacuum pump fitting as I am quite lazy and therefore didn't particularly want to do acres of masking for just the one little bit. I also added some of the more delicate details to the top of the tank in the form of the screw downs for the tank filler lid, the dome lubricator and the breather pipe. The interesting thing about No. 1363 is that she seemed to have some unique positioning on some of these parts. The tank filler and as a result, the bump stop are a different way round to the other locos in the class and the breather pipe is just forward of the safety valve bonnet and not the dome as it was in the majority of her sisters. A class of just 5 machines and Swindon can't even make all of them the same... A session of filling, sanding and respraying to cover up the unpainted bits was then undertaken. And midway through the process... The weird 'buffers' are Blu Tack masking for the bores of the buffer housings by the way. Red, lots of red! I got a bit carried away here but it's a good laugh none the less! LMS passenger livery 1361 Class anyone? It did prove the surface before the top coat went on however. A spot of latex masking was then applied to the buffer beams. The coat of satin black then went on and allowed to dry prior to the application of the decals, the number and shed code plates fore and aft, the whistles, the cab roof, some weathering, and so on... What do you mean I have forgotten to do the cab interior? Oh yeah... D'oh! There I was thinking that the to do list was getting smaller - never mind! All the best, Castle 17 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium southern42 Posted October 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 27, 2012 Love it 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Love it You forgot to say 'I want one' 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Hi Ray & Polly, Thanks for the kind comments! I don't use the smileys myself but I do love that one! I have just been on to G W Road to answer the Pendennis Castle question asked on there - sorry I haven't caught up with it sooner! All the best, Castle Edited October 27, 2012 by Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Hi All, I have just noticed that Little Dodcot has ticked over the 10,000 views milestone tonight - thanks to everyone who has looked in since I started in January and offered me so much advice, encouragement and friendship. Cheers everyone! Castle 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 She's looking very nice. Most excellent work. Personally, I prefer to use Games Workshop's base red acrylic for buffer beams etc. Even over black it gives excellent coverage. And congrats on hitting 10 000 page views. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell Model Railway Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Looks awesome, great work there, always an interesting challenge fitting a kit body to a RTR chassis... i know Im doing one right now haha. Great stuff. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hi All, Please don't tell my friends about this... In a dose of conscience, a pair of unfinished vans that just needed weathering hit my workbench today. They are vans Jim, but not as we know them! That's right, even the hallowed GWR soaked ground that is Didcot has one or two 'skeletons' in its closet. There are one or two things at Didcot that are not GWR - there, I've said it and it is TRUE! The most easily seen of these of course is the turntable (ex Southampton Docks) but little 0-4-0 saddle tank Bonnie Prince Charlie (also ex Southampton Docks), our 6 wheel milk tanker (strangely a much rarer Southern Railway example - there are far more GWR examples in preservation), the BR Ashford built 6 wheel special cattle wagon (although a development of a GWR design), the LMS breakdown crane and one or two other items in the historic collection are all from railways elsewhere where brass, copper and green paint have been used in all sorts of unnatural ways... Another example of refugees from those foreign lands are the two ventilated vans that are used as mobile storage by the locomotive department. These two are from that place that (under that nice Mr. Stanier) became slightly GWR - the LMS. These are to Diagram D2039 and were manufactured during WWII in 1942 in Lots 1329 and 1319 at Wolverton. The LMS built around 20,000 of this style of 12 ton vans between 1934 and 1944 under a variety of diagrams. Nos. 516673 and 517791 were acquired from main line use by the MoD for use on the Bicester Military Railway and were renumbered Nos. 4166 and 4167 respectively. After doing their bit for monarch and country, they entered a well earned and highly useful retirement at Didcot. So then, Ratio to the rescue again! How would sir or madam like their LMS ventilated van? A new one or something of and earlier vintage? Remarkably these were sent by the same on line supplier on the same order! However, despite being from the same diagram, the two vans are very different in the details. Now, being a resident at the recognised centre of all things GWR of course means that I was wading deep into uncharted territory with these two. Fellow RM WEB members have helped me a great deal with this project so I would like to thank them again for all their help and point out the thread here for others to make use of the information should it be required by any of my readers: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60414-lms-ventilated-vans/ As the simpler of the two conversions, I started with No. 4166 / 516673. The main differences from the Ratio kit for No. 516673 are as follows: 1 Diagonal strapping on the body sides. 2 No. 516673 was converted from an unfitted to a vacuum fitted van later in life - possibly as a part of the 1955 modernisation plan. 3 there are no lamp irons provided on the ends of the Ratio mouldings. 4 Scale screw link couplings. 5 There is a triangular repair or reinforcing patch on the non vacuum cylinder side lower left corner of the door. 6 White metal replacement buffers are always nice too... I found that the kit was fairly self explanatory with the usual RCH 12 ton Type chassis as found in some of their kits. I added my usual suppliers white metal buffers (which makes them LMS, LMS buffers I suppose!) and a Dart Castings vacuum cylinder too. The usual Castle approach of building into 3 chunks was required for the bauxite black and grey livery of these wagons. There was a great deal of flash on the body mouldings and took a lot to free them from the sprues. Other than that the mouldings were excellent. Sorry about the terrible picture! The body and roof unit was completed first in my usual way. I also added my LMS LMS buffers at this stage too. Then the chassis unit was built up and the details added all round. This included the diagonal braces (sans rivets as I will do these with 3D transfers later). This was then posted for the progress to be assessed by the LMS gurus of RMWEB land. They found no fault (save the instanter couplings which need exchanging with screw links and the kit wheels need to be exchanged for three hole discs) so off to the paint shop it went! Little No. 517791 is a slightly more complex prospect to build and requires a bit more cunning. The cassis is different in having alternative 'J' spring hangers, clasp brakes and one or two other bits and pieces. Sound advice from the LMS gurus advised the purchase of Parkside Dundas chassis kit No. PA16, the snappily entitled "BR/LMS 10ft. Vacuum Braked, Clasp Brake Shoes, includes both LMS (J hanger) and BR type spring suspension". So the modifications this time are: 1 New vacuum clasp braked chassis with alternate 'J' hanger springing arrangements. 2 Etched lamp irons. 3 Scale instanter couplings. 4 This van has additional diagonal strapping on the door. 5 The same diagonal body straps as No. 516673 are also on No. 517791. 6 The tapered steel ends on the body sides have small reinforcing squares on the inner lower corners. 7 there is some sort of note holding 'thing' on one end of this wagon. 8 There are one or two other little bits on the body. 9 White metal replacement buffers. The last one was a fairly straight build but here we can see the various bits including the components from the Ratio kit, the Parkside chassis and the various white metal odds and ends. The usual building of the roof and box start us off and then the potential minefield of fitting one manufacturers chassis to another's body. There was me thinking that major surgery would be required but much to my surprise, the floor plate clipped straight in! Thinking that the worst of it had yet to come, I separated all the bits of the chassis that I needed from the sprues and got to work building it up. This too just clipped straight in and with minor fettling we had a runner! If only all conversions were this easy! Careful adjustments were required to the clasp brakes in order to get the wheels to run true and free. The chassis was them detailed with styrene rod from evergreen, and etched link from Frogmore and a white metal vacuum cylinder from Dart. A couple of bits of jewellers wire from a craft store suggested the various linkages. Then the chassis was weighted with liquid gravity. Body details were next and the various additional straps added as per the real No. 517791. Rivets, as before, will be done via the Archer transfers. The reinforcement patches to the bottom corners of the corrugated sides were fitted as little bits of styrene. these will also get rivet transfers in time. There is some sort of label pad type affair on one end and as I liked the look of it, I put it on. Vacuum pipes from the Ratio kit and the couplings were the final touches. Primer and a light gloss varnish first gave the rivet transfers something to stick to and then the matt black / top colours to finish. With transfers and weathering we get this for little Nos. 516673 and 517791. For two vans from the same diagram there are sure a lot of differences! I am now going for a lie down in a cold dark room to think about nothing but the products of Swindon and Wolverhampton Railway Works... All the best, Castle PS: I really don't mind what company a preserved railway vehicle comes from as long as it is preserved! 11 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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