The Fall & Rise of the 60's ( was The End of the Tugs?)

[John M Upton]

I hope the 60 preservation group has the resources to buy one,following on the success of the 58 group earlier this year.

 

If they have any sense then this batch will be allowed to be put out of their misery and then they pop over to the scrappy and buy up any significant usable parts off the carcasses (which won't be many) for a future preserved example when better examples become available.

 

The rescue of 58016 seems to me a bit curious however. Almost all the 58's offered were demics, long out of use, missing bogies in two cases (they had to be returned to DBS after arrival at the scrappy) except 58016 which was used abroad, seemed in decent nick and just in need of some bits. I do wonder if DBS threw that one in the first batch specifically to attract the preservationists!

 

Of the other classes on that list, I expect to see several Class 09's find new homes plus I would be very surprised if split box 37042 is allowed to be torched.

[Arpleymodeller]

I doubt DBS will be sympathetic to preservationists,all their interested in obliviously is making the best return for their assets like any business would.I think preservation is rather saturated as far as 37s are regarded.DRS may buy some of them,but they will probably be 37/5s .West coast railways make buy some of the 37/7s to supplement their fleet.Anyway a bit of topic...

[GRUNFOS]

A couple of views of Thursdays Lindsey tanks.60 084 in charge.

['CHARD]

And how was the fragrant and elegant Metro-Cammell factory immediately behind you?

[GRUNFOS]

Just found 60 011from 6th August and 60 040 from 10th June. There won't be many more Washford Heath galleries as I'm moving workplace still got hundreds of saved photos though.

[GRUNFOS]

And how was the fragrant and elegant Metro-Cammell factory immediately behind you?

Its very fragrant when Hanson Rail fire up their 56's

[Arpleymodeller]

They are some great pictures,once a common sight is now becoming increasingly rare!,I notice that 60040 has lost its DBS logo?

[Steadfast]

They are some great pictures,once a common sight is now becoming increasingly rare!,I notice that 60040 has lost its DBS logo?

One side only, lost it a couple of months after repaint. Sideswiped a wagon IIRC

HTH

jo

[magic_monkey09]

Some sad news lately regarding the 60's I thought i better snap the ones that are still active while i can so i headed straight down to Cardiff central and then onto Margam Knuckle yard for a bit of Tug hunting B)

 

here's what i got:

 

60013 working the Murco's (yes again) through cardiff central about 4:30pm

 

Here it is a short while later at Margam Knuckle yard where it was removed from the train to take on fuel

 

60010 was also at Margam albeit shut down, this machine having worked the tanks thursday night

 

close up of 60010, judging by its position in the yard it may have been on super shunter duties earlier in the day Although, 09022 and two other unidentified 08's were present in the yard.

[magic_monkey09]

The space the 60s take up at toton is derelict,DBS closed the yard in April 2009 as the recession had a major effect on EWS/DBSs work.It now resembles more of a nature reserve than a marshalling yard with all that vegetation!

 

correct old bank yard is now soley used for storage but not all of the 60's in old bank yard are on the tender list for example 60025, many still litter the depot in locations such as the training compound and on the headshunt. suprisingly some of the examples stored at Crewe are to be ditched as it was understood that these were put away specially in case of future requirement... it seems the recession hit that on the head too.... personally i'd describe it as 'taking out the trash' getting rid of the worst examples first that are fit for nothing but disposal, im just suprised not to see a couple more on the list 033 and 025 both have dead alternators and 005 has a busted crank shaft

[Arpleymodeller]

How do you get such close up pictures of 60010,I thought all rails yards these days are surrounded with the dreaded palisade fencing?

One other comment about the 60s,many of them could be returned to use if they were overhauled although the current economic climate means that this wont take place,I once read in one of the major rail magazines when EWS was considering re-engineering the 60s that they had a contract from MAN,which supplies parts for Mirrlees-Blackstone etc to supply spares for around 15 years from 1996.That would mean that only now would locos be stripped for spares.This makes me wonder why some locos like 60064,60070 and 60098 were stripped a few years ago?

[paulbb]

The class 60's are clearly on their way out; DBS does not want to spend money on them, and they are probably

too old now for a refurb that would increase their reliability. EWS costed this out some years ago and baulked at the expense.

For the heavier duties they will possibly double head 66's now with some of the Euro (WBEN) fleet coming back slowly- 9 and counting.

Expect to see another 20-30 class 60's for sale early next year.

[big T]

Like people have said before a lot of the locos for sale (indeed the vast majority) have been heavily cannibalised to keep the motley strugglers going.

 

I doubt that any FOC will be interested in them for a couple of reasons - 1) the whole leg out of bed scenario 2) the lack of TLC shown (any machine will only last as long as it is well maintained) 3) the cost of bringing them back into service, and finally who else other than DBS runs class 6 trains? There is obviously FL and GBRf, but they have their own modern traction that would negate the purchase of any additional locos.

 

There are too many limiting factors facing these rugged machines, and other than work abroad, it pains me to say it, but what does the future hold?

 

The last couple of years have been a complete sham with the run down of 56's, 58's and 60's. It is reminiscent of the late 1960's when locos were having tiny amounts allocated for repairs, and the most minor of faults would result in withdrawal.

 

All of these loco classes would have at least another 20 years service, admittedly with a little cash injection, but you wouldn't keep your car on the road for 20 years without spending money on it.

 

This is what happens when accountants run businesses.

 

FARCICAL.

[magic_monkey09]

How do you get such close up pictures of 60010,I thought all rails yards these days are surrounded with the dreaded palisade fencing?

 

There is a public gate crossing down at Margam Knuckle yard which cuts across all the tracks including the maninline! , 60010 was stabled literally on the crossing! which enabled me to get quite a few nice close up's of it B) providing you behave yourself and stay off the track the yard staff generally don't mind you taking a few pics

[magic_monkey09]

 

After 14 years,EWS and now DBS will have sold all there 37s bar the remaining ETH examples from a total of around 200 in 1996!

Regards

Lewis

 

probably because there would be a fight over the sale of 37/4's DRS especially would have a field day!! DBS ideally want the loco's condemmed and not falling into the hands of rival companies, DRS already have the upper hand when it comes to type 3 traction. If anything DBS are clinging onto them knowing that they will most probably be re-used if sold on... unlike the 60's class 37's are repairable and far more useful to other operators which means the Tugs are unlikely to attract anything other than scrap dealers

[Jim Martin]

 

The last couple of years have been a complete sham with the run down of 56's, 58's and 60's. ...

 

 

 

This is what happens when accountants run businesses.

 

FARCICAL.

 

EWS weren't / DBS aren't running a spotter's benefit. Is there any evidence that not having the 56s or 58s in their fleet has interfered with their ability to run the trains that they wanted to run? Have you done the costings that demonstrate that retaining and maintaining a fleet of 60s would be cheaper, overall, than using a fleet of 66s (and some 59s, I suppose)?

 

I like the 60s as much as the next person; I'm sorry to see their gradual demise; but that demise is neither farcical nor a sham. It's the way of things, just like the demise of the Deltics, the Westerns, the 9Fs and pre-grouping steam was. And I'm sorry to say it - and I know that it's hopelessly unsexy to say this - but what happens when accountants don't run businesses is that they go bust, usually in pretty short order.

 

Jim

[40044]

....but you wouldn't keep your car on the road for 20 years without spending money on it.

 

No, but you dont keep all your old cars on the drive when they've been replaced by more efficient models either....

[Bruce Depot]

big T, on 05 September 2010 - 13:34 , said:

 

 

The last couple of years have been a complete sham with the run down of 56's, 58's and 60's. ...

 

 

 

This is what happens when accountants run businesses.

 

FARCICAL.

 

 

EWS weren't / DBS aren't running a spotter's benefit. Is there any evidence that not having the 56s or 58s in their fleet has interfered with their ability to run the trains that they wanted to run? Have you done the costings that demonstrate that retaining and maintaining a fleet of 60s would be cheaper, overall, than using a fleet of 66s (and some 59s, I suppose)?

 

I like the 60s as much as the next person; I'm sorry to see their gradual demise; but that demise is neither farcical nor a sham. It's the way of things, just like the demise of the Deltics, the Westerns, the 9Fs and pre-grouping steam was. And I'm sorry to say it - and I know that it's hopelessly unsexy to say this - but what happens when accountants don't run businesses is that they go bust, usually in pretty short order.

 

Jim

 

 

Rubbish, if BR still existed I suspect these loco's would still be working and better looked after.

Keith

[Trainshed Terry]

big T, on 05 September 2010 - 13:34 , said:

 

 

The last couple of years have been a complete sham with the run down of 56's, 58's and 60's. ...

 

 

 

This is what happens when accountants run businesses.

 

FARCICAL.

 

 

EWS weren't / DBS aren't running a spotter's benefit. Is there any evidence that not having the 56s or 58s in their fleet has interfered with their ability to run the trains that they wanted to run? Have you done the costings that demonstrate that retaining and maintaining a fleet of 60s would be cheaper, overall, than using a fleet of 66s (and some 59s, I suppose)?

 

I like the 60s as much as the next person; I'm sorry to see their gradual demise; but that demise is neither farcical nor a sham. It's the way of things, just like the demise of the Deltics, the Westerns, the 9Fs and pre-grouping steam was. And I'm sorry to say it - and I know that it's hopelessly unsexy to say this - but what happens when accountants don't run businesses is that they go bust, usually in pretty short order.

 

Jim

 

 

Rubbish, if BR still existed I suspect these loco's would still be working and better looked after.

Keith

 

 

You have my vote to get the railways re-nationalized.

 

Terry

[big T]

EWS weren't / DBS aren't running a spotter's benefit. Is there any evidence that not having the 56s or 58s in their fleet has interfered with their ability to run the trains that they wanted to run? Have you done the costings that demonstrate that retaining and maintaining a fleet of 60s would be cheaper, overall, than using a fleet of 66s (and some 59s, I suppose)?

 

I like the 60s as much as the next person; I'm sorry to see their gradual demise; but that demise is neither farcical nor a sham. It's the way of things, just like the demise of the Deltics, the Westerns, the 9Fs and pre-grouping steam was. And I'm sorry to say it - and I know that it's hopelessly unsexy to say this - but what happens when accountants don't run businesses is that they go bust, usually in pretty short order.

 

Jim

 

 

Jim, you are right - EWS/DB werent/aren't running for the spotters benefit. I understand that, and that wasn't the gist of my post.

 

A lot of people are amazed at how locos with a great deal more life left in them have been systematically run down. (as were the 56's and 58's)

 

I can't accurately comment on the effect that not having greater quantities of type 5's has on the current railfreight scene (apart from hearing constantly about EWS/ DB trains being cancelled due to a shortage of traction) so no.

 

And neither have I carried out fiscal comparisons between class types, failures and MPC figures etc (have you?! )

[big T]

You have my vote to get the railways re-nationalized.

 

Terry

 

Mine too!

[Clay Country]

Not sure I agree the 56s had a lot of life left in them - BR was running them down before privatisation and I'm sure Trainload Freight would have dispensed with them long before now if privatisation had not happened. Much as I'm a fan of the Grids, the 66s were vastly more reliable than 56s even after the reliability mods initiated by Load Haul. Age is no indication of build quality.

 

As for the 58s and 60s, they have fallen victim to a change in the market - loss of market share by EWS and DBS to the likes of Freightliner and GBRf meant a reduced requirement for locos and hence these locos came the end of their days sooner than they would have otherwise. Despite this, privatisation has generally been good for railfreight, which is now a much more customer-focussed and efficient business than it used to be. I'd rather see Sheds everywhere and plenty of freight on the railway than a variety of more interesting traction and a business in terminal decline.

[Arpleymodeller]

The German government has a considerable share in Britain's railways-

 

EWS/DBS-largest freight operator

Arriva-One of the 'Big Four' national TOCs (the other are First,National Express and Stagecoach)

And a percentage of London Overground

 

The UKs railways wont be nationalised any time soon,if ever.

[Arpleymodeller]

probably because there would be a fight over the sale of 37/4's DRS especially would have a field day!! DBS ideally want the loco's condemmed and not falling into the hands of rival companies, DRS already have the upper hand when it comes to type 3 traction. If anything DBS are clinging onto them knowing that they will most probably be re-used if sold on... unlike the 60's class 37's are repairable and far more useful to other operators which means the Tugs are unlikely to attract anything other than scrap dealers

 

I wouldn't say 60s are 'unrepairable' as their builder,Brush Traction is still trading and anyone with the money that was needed to overhaul a 60 could get a 60 overhauled to 'as new condition'.However this wont happen as the locos would have no requirement in todays current railfreight market.True about the 37/4s though,maybe a use for them may materialise in the future,a stop gap passenger service like the Rhymney loco hauled,unlikely though!

[Trainsrgr8]

I wouldn't say 60s are 'unrepairable' as their builder,Brush Traction is still trading and anyone with the money that was needed to overhaul a 60 could get a 60 overhauled to 'as new condition'.However this wont happen as the locos would have no requirement in todays current railfreight market.True about the 37/4s though,maybe a use for them may materialise in the future,a stop gap passenger service like the Rhymney loco hauled,unlikely though!

 

I know from chatting to a DRS driver that they like the 37/4's because they are so versitile and can do pretty much anything from ECS moves, flasks to railtours. Sadly the 60's will probably meet their makers as they are mosly un usuable now Shame really... must get out to snap some of the remainers bfore they all dissapear

 

Danny