RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2012 This is the only possible way forward for a site of this size and growing. Andy is to be congratulated on getting this deal to build a secure future for his creation. indeed, I can't be the only one to have noticed that the critics failed to respond to your invite for alternative solutions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Ask Andy how much the server costs per month. Ask him how much time he would have to run RMweb if he was to find other full-time employment. Presumably advertising and donations were covering the server costs - otherwise we wouldn't still be here. How much time? That could be overcome with a larger moderating team, more volunteer contributors etc - just like every other "not for profit" forum on the web. Are they as big/busy as RMWeb? Maybe, maybe not, but whilst I accept that Andy Y has done a great job with the forum up until the takeover, are we really saying that there is not one other person on the face of this planet, let alone member of this forum, that would not have been capable of doing a similar thing? I know I'm not ... but that's not really the point, is it? Those suggestions cover the cost and time options, so those are 'solutions' in a way. I am sure that the right members would have stepped up to the plate if the request for help had been made openly in the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sorry Natalie but after Ian's post. What really is the point in just sitting back and criticizing or voicing concerns. Do you think they are suddenly going to say that the "critics are right we're going to reverse the decsion"? No, it just sounds like whinging or whining. You really have to put a positive spin on it and work to make it as you like. Do view it as an opportunity. Best, Pete. I'd like to speak for Andy here - that will really bug him I know but as I see it ... It is not so much negativity that has been expressed just caution. That same caution I read in Andy's first post that during the negotiations with Warners (and quite possibly coming from them also) were exactly the same concerns as have been expressed in this thread. Sure it is a done deal and now Warners are in control with Andy as an employee still directing the show - and we as members had no say in that - and why indeed should we? No reason at all. But for the future of the forum we all have a stake of sorts. No forum can survive without input from its members. If those members do not get en-mass what they come here for then the attraction will diminish and more will leave. It could simply degenerate to a library of static pages still with website traffic but entirely stale of the interaction, humour and fast response. The survival of a social media site depends entirely on the willingness of its members to participate. Some of that participation comes with members challenging the status quo and can be anything from Andy testing out a new style to the forum, a new way of using it or something we have no idea of yet. The responses - and I'm certain are not just limited to the public forum must be of use in validating the change. What some see as negative might just be part of the ongoing evolutionary process. I think there are a lot of us who have held on through thick and thin and despite everything still find this place the best place to be and will continue to support it. There is nowhere quite like it and I really cannot see Warners allowing it to fail. Sure they almost certainly will want to put their identity on it but that could be a good thing and I think they have an opportunity to really put themselves out in front of the rest. Just, please, be gentle with the changes. .... Isn't it about time for a competition ... it seems like it has been a long time since the last one (sorry Andy, I know you are still trying to sort out the last one) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm delighted to hear that Andy has secured his own future, and his track record here means that I'm happy to accept what he says in the OP about the future of RMweb at face value. However, I have to agree with Natalie that, when some established members have said they have reservations, some of the responses have been unnecessarily unpleasant. Whether or not we agree with them, they are entitled to their opinions and do not deserve to be told to b*gger off. Equally, suggesting that anyone with reservations should be obliged to present an alternative business plan before being allowed to raise their concerns is just a red herring. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I am not saying there is an alternative. I have already said, twice, that I think this was an excellent oportunity for both Andy and the forum. Nonetheless it is a big change in the status of the forum which was formerly an independently run site but is now owned by a major publishing company. I have already said that I am sure that, overall, the forum will benefit from this change. However it will. undoubtedly lead to new developements and new directions which potentially might leave some of the present membership feeling it has moved away from the forum they currently enjoy. It is understandable that people will have concerns. All I am saying is that those who feel they may be among this number should be allowed to raise their concerns without being derided and told to go away if they don't like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2012 Just, please, be gentle with the changes. Not just directed at you Kenton but do any of you critics read Andys reassurances ? if not then do so, and if you do, do you believe he is lying when he (repeatedly) says "Nothing will change ?", personally I trust him and will go along with the changes because changes had to happen and I believe he will lead this forum to bigger and better things, however being a belligerent b*gg*r, if things do change for the worse then so be it, I'll be off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2012 Presumably advertising and donations were covering the server costs - otherwise we wouldn't still be here. And Andys mortgage ? or doesn't that matter as long as the big bad corporates don't get hold of "our" forum ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The only thing I ask from Andy is to take a shower and put some clothes on in the morning.......when I started working at home I recorded half an album before taking a shower once - divorce was threatened after that (I will not mention my butt sticking to my leather chair which was thrown out by the powers that be, we all have them). Best, Pete. Getting it in before "TMI" is called... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2012 Presumably advertising and donations were covering the server costs - otherwise we wouldn't still be here. But the server cost is an up-front contract and rising with increasing content and bandwidth. Hoping and praying that donations will always cover it is not a long-term solution for Andy's peace of mind. How much time? That could be overcome with a larger moderating team, more volunteer contributors etc - just like every other "not for profit" forum on the web. Are they as big/busy as RMWeb? Maybe, maybe not, but whilst I accept that Andy Y has done a great job with the forum up until the takeover, are we really saying that there is not one other person on the face of this planet, let alone member of this forum, that would not have been capable of doing a similar thing? But RMweb is Andy's. Why should he hand the running of it over to others if he can find a deal such as this to remain at the helm himself? And turn down the chance of his own financial security? Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Not just directed at you Kenton but do any of you critics read Andys reassurances ? if not then do so, and if you do, do you believe he is lying when he (repeatedly) says "Nothing will change ?", personally I trust him and will go along with the changes because changes had to happen and I believe he will lead this forum to bigger and better things, however being a belligerent b*gg*r, if things do change for the worse then so be it, I'll be off. Oh come on - even Andy cannot believe that - or indeed wish it. Things have changed considerably since the early days of RMWeb 1. We may not all believe in them or support them all other than the fact the site has survived and in terms of content prospered. The fact is there will be changes - but as things now stand they will be just like before at Andy's design and willing. As I said I don't care if Warners wish to add their own changes, reassured by the fact that they will be implementing them through Andy, so will continue to keep with his ethos for the site. The difference nonw when Andy sees a way forward for the site to evolve he now has the backing of Warners and potentially their other resources. One thing we are perhaps forgetting is the ability of Warners to advertise the site - expect another burst in membership as RMWeb becomes an even more global name. A Chinease Railways Group perhaps? No not joking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Not just directed at you Kenton but do any of you critics read Andys reassurances ? if not then do so, and if you do, do you believe he is lying when he (repeatedly) says "Nothing will change ?", As I said, from experience from a gaming forum that I was a mod for some years ago - was part of an independent network, then the game was bought by Electronic Arts, migrated to completely their control, login changed so you had to use your game login to get on the forums (and any warnings on the forum were directly linked to temporary lockout from the game) and, to start with we were all assured that everything would be fine and carry on, and then things started to change. I'm sure that Andy is confident in the arrangements of this deal - otherwise he wouldn't have signed up to it - and he has "our" best interests in mind but do you really believe that there won't come a time where Warners - as the major shareholder and thus with the clout - want to do something that Andy doesn't like, and there won't be a time where he has to either go along with their demands against his wishes to keep in employment, or walk away. He may be 'at the helm' but now he's presumably 'a man under orders' too? Do you really think that Warners will be content to keep throwing money at RMWeb forever, without wanting to change things in some way or another to be more favourable towards their brand? We've already seen the forum change colours, and whilst that may indeed be a minor thing, it certainly won't be the last change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Do you think we've done enough naval gazing now? If it all goes belly-up, we can just walk away. But Andy has invested much time, energy and doubtless £££ into creating RMweb. It has to move forward, and as long as that's in a positive way (and I've no reason at the moment to think otherwise) what's the problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Two things for me; firstly experience from other previously independent forums that have been taken over by a commercial entity, And does that include detailed and full knowledge of the personalities involved and the terms and conditions of the contractual arrangements concerned, for comparison with Andy's statement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Do you think we've done enough naval gazing now? See changes already, we're a militiary ship spotters forum now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelmaker87 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Cool deal Andy. ATB to Warners to boot. A good team if you ask me. Cheers, Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 And does that include detailed and full knowledge of the personalities involved and the terms and conditions of the contractual arrangements concerned, for comparison with Andy's statement? Of course not. But quite how that is meant to change my mind I'm not entirely sure. I can probably equate it to the small independent high street shops that all die when the nearby Tesco opens. Or, if you prefer, given a choice between visiting one small club run model show and ten Ally Pally's (run by Warners) then I'd go for the one small club show any time. It's the whole atmosphere that's completely different because it doesn't have the commercial emphasis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2012 I have a theory that Andy does have some lines drawn in the sand and that Warners are fully aware that if he walks the plank RMweb will be worth half as much as a Halifax share ie it will become a liability so fast that they will end up ditching it. On the otherhand if he gets run down by a bus then the Carendt effect will possibly kick in..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 See changes already, we're a militiary ship spotters forum now. Well spotted Natalie. Perhaps it was a perceptive slip on my behalf. In my defence I gave a talk to 75 members of a local WI this afternoon; just about recovered now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm just looking forward to the cocktail parties. There will be cocktail parties, right Andy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb has never remained the same......It has always gotten better under the very personal guidance of Andy. He has given us his assurances and so it makes sense to me to give him our fullest support so that he and Warners might take RMweb forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 The only thing I ask from Andy is to take a shower and put some clothes on in the morning. Jeez Pete; have you installed a webcam?! A lunchtime shower today once I knew the outage was sorted; yukk! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 have you installed a webcam?! That could be a new revenue source - there are all sorts of funny people out there with internet access who might pay for that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debs. Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Do you think we've done enough naval gazing now? Yes, the ship of fools sails on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2012 Yes, the ship of fools sails on. Hang on - RMweb's been bought by Warners - not an Italian cruise line! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 We have had quite a fww posts criticising people voicing concerns and suggesting they just see what happens and if they don't like it find another forum, but isn't it better that people set out their concerns so that Andy and Warners are aware of what people are worried about rather than potentially making some change that no-one has suggested they would not like and then wondering why some people no longer post? Exactly! The record of successful forums being taken over by commercial interests is very poor one. It doesn't have to be like that here because there is now a wealth of experience out there of past failures. But the pitfalls do have to be discussed freely for the lessons to be learned. Not least the biggest losers in the past have been the commercial interests themselves, who have often meddled in things they don't understand and then seen the value of their investment plummet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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