yorkie_pudd Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Not at all, they are under no legal obligation to sell you anything. Any shop/restaurant or anything may refuse to serve if they wish. Many shops will honour a mispriced item (particularly if the shop is large or the price difference not large) but that is maintain customer goodwill, nothing to do with the law. Fully correct without all the legal waffle, if item box item is priced at say £49.99 and at till rings up say £62.95. the obligation for the seller is apologise for the wrong price, to which they can either sell you it the £49.99 or refuse to sell it at that price. If they refuse to sell they must remove all them products marked at that and make sure no trace of the cheaper price exists before restocking the item at the higher price. where the old stick on price labels are used they cannot simply stick another higher price label over the top of a cheaper price label. As with many case and presidence set if a shop does this label trick and found out they will be done for fraud, the hard part for the customer is on seeing a label on top of another, getting the top label to see if the label below is cheaper. but any damage to labels or item you can be done item damage or made to pay for it, and even then the shop can refuse to sell at the lower price. As Karhedron said most shops will sell lower price for good customer relations, unless previous customer had upset them lol ( coughs werent me honest ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekl Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Contract law on this issue is all a bit archaic, and developed before the advent of supermarkets and so on, also modified by consumer protection legislation, and overriden by consumer sensibility on the part of vendors. As I recall, the price on an item is not regarded as an offer, which could be accepted contractually and thus be binding, but an "invitation to treat" (as I said, a bit archaic). You, as buyer, may accept the invitation, but the seller/vendor may then say no, I want to contract at a different price - and that is the one that leads to the binding contract, should you proceed. In practical terms, though (perhaps not applying to Modelzone), retailers seem to be a bit savvy to the risks of sticking one price on the shelf and another on the till. I had occassion to buy bottled water in a Spar shop in deepest coastal Kent a few months back. I don't like buying bottled water, since I think it a waste of money to drink, and even more so when it was to be used to wash the mud and sand off the kids' feet. (No, there were no taps around). Found a special offer on the shelves, giving 2 1.5 litre bottles for £1, so took those to the till, and invited to spend a lot more. Queried, and a hassled store manager went to have a look, and agreed, although he said the offer had lapsed, but they hadn't taken the label off. A few weeks ago in the Waitrose shop (of all places) in Dartford, I noticed that my shopping trolley had been enhanced by two packets of cereal (I didn't think the trip was about providing a greater breakfast experience for my son's family, although I didn't really object). At the till, they totted up as normal, but my son had obviously being paying a lot more attention than I had, and pointed out these were on "2 for 1". Call for manager, who said something about the system not being updated, without even going to look, and sorted. Not totally useful on the legal entitlement, although indicative of the effect of general consumer pressure on the retailers. I will try and get around to looking at the current legislation, and post if I find anything useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 8, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2012 It just seems odd to re-price all stock. Most retailers tend to keep to a price (except when discounting) and then any new stock takes the new price. Modelzone have had similar Hornby items of different release times at different prices for ages. Why do they suddenly decide its time to increase the price of all stock? Even Hornby seems to keep the price of it's earlier releases and only apply the new price to the current batches. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochnagar Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Lots of traders (particularly on ebay) are selling old Hornby stock at latest RRP. In my opinion this is taking the p*ss somewhat and therefore I don't buy the said items from them. Easy! Everything can be had at a sensible price if you're a little patient and keep a look out at shows. I remember a trader on ebay selling Hornby MK3's at £39.99 a pop last year, which is way above and beyond RRP. You can imagine how much his locos were. . I sincerely hope nobody bought any! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 8, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2012 Everything can be had at a sensible price if you're a little patient and keep a look out at shows. E.g. R4477 12 wheel Pullman for £28 (RRP £47.25)! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor H Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 It just seems odd to re-price all stock. Most retailers tend to keep to a price (except when discounting) and then any new stock takes the new price. Modelzone have had similar Hornby items of different release times at different prices for ages. Why do they suddenly decide its time to increase the price of all stock? Even Hornby seems to keep the price of it's earlier releases and only apply the new price to the current batches. Keith I'm afraid its the way it is nowadays, those at the top only see figures and if they feel they need to improve them, they either increase prices (or reduce if they need to clear), reduce stock levels, or reduce staff. Many retail companies probably find it very difficult at the moment and the model shop market especially. Profit margins can be very tight, especially when you have discounted locos been sold at just above or even below cost (its called loss leaders). Many people try to match prices, or get as near too, just to get the sale, which is probably a false economy long term. Some model shops have gone the opposite way as they feel its just a waste of time competing, when they do try to sell something at a discounted price and people go somewhere else because its 50p cheaper. Eventually we'll end up with a few small model shops that are happy to sell one or two locos a week at the rrp and one big discounter that would control the market. And if that day comes, then he'll be able to sell his stock at what ever price he pleases. But I still don't agree with how the branch of Modelzone went about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Modelzone locally(ish) have had loads of Hornby product at deeply discounted prices on their shelves for months and i haven't heard any complaints (apart from some retailers) about them selling cheaply. Perhaps that strategy has not been successful and they're trying another one in order to improve their cash flow? If I remember correctly Modelzone have Hornby on consignment, the agreement means that the stock still belongs to Hornby and as such the Hornby reps can come round and drop prices to get boxes shifting This also means that the shop gets told to start charging new prices for existing stock It's a crap way for a model shop to run (from our perspective and from a manager trying to stock what sells) but normal practice for some areas of retail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Unless the shop concerned has the retail prices of all the goods for sale on display, either on the product or close by them, they are breaking the law; specifically the Price Marking Order 2004. Simply putting up a sign saying the prices will be ammended at the till is not sufficient unless the retail prices are shown and the notice is in proximity to the items concerned. The situation with VAT changes is different as the pricing legislation specifically allows a period of 14 days where a notice will suffice in the case of changes to tax. The retailer making a decision to change prices is his own affair and the onus is on him to make sure he complies with the legislation and has all his goods corrctly priced on display. My prevous job was as the department manager for a major superarket and point of sale pricing was part of my remit so I had to know this stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Thanks for quoting the relevant piece of legislation Natalie. I was aware of the underlying concept of "invitation to treat" from the time, many years ago, when I was reasonably up-to-date in contract law. I assumed that modern consumer protection legislation had probably changed that, but the various bits that I had found (e.g. Unfair Trading Regulations 2008) addressed "misleading advertising" type issues without covering the fundamental requirement of quoting the price correctly. This seems to be the bit that I was missing. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Unless the shop concerned has the retail prices of all the goods for sale on display, either on the product or close by them, they are breaking the law; specifically the Price Marking Order 2004. Simply putting up a sign saying the prices will be ammended at the till is not sufficient unless the retail prices are shown and the notice is in proximity to the items concerned. The situation with VAT changes is different as the pricing legislation specifically allows a period of 14 days where a notice will suffice in the case of changes to tax. The retailer making a decision to change prices is his own affair and the onus is on him to make sure he complies with the legislation and has all his goods corrctly priced on display. My prevous job was as the department manager for a major superarket and point of sale pricing was part of my remit so I had to know this stuff. That is my understanding too. Model zone are in breech of the law . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Modelzone locally(ish) have had loads of Hornby product at deeply discounted prices on their shelves for months and i haven't heard any complaints (apart from some retailers) about them selling cheaply. Perhaps that strategy has not been successful and they're trying another one in order to improve their cash flow? If I remember correctly Modelzone have Hornby on consignment, the agreement means that the stock still belongs to Hornby and as such the Hornby reps can come round and drop prices to get boxes shifting This also means that the shop gets told to start charging new prices for existing stock It's a crap way for a model shop to run (from our perspective and from a manager trying to stock what sells) but normal practice for some areas of retail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 If I go to Modelzone and select an item only to be told at the till that the price is higher than that shown, they will be left with; A lost sale; A disgruntled customer who will shop elsewhere in future; An item dumped on their till to be put back on the shelf. If Modelzone are adopting this policy, they will only encourage more on-line shopping from cheaper sources, not to mention lost goodwill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2012 If I go to Modelzone and select an item only to be told at the till that the price is higher than that shown, they will be left with; A lost sale; A disgruntled customer who will shop elsewhere in future; An item dumped on their till to be put back on the shelf. If Modelzone are adopting this policy, they will only encourage more on-line shopping from cheaper sources, not to mention lost goodwill. It might not be the letter of the (oldish) law but I understand in the self-service world items on a shelf are being offered for sale at that price. If you choose to take one then the contract is considered to have been made and the retailer should sell at that price. If it is the wrong price they should then remove all incorrect items from display before offering them back on sale at the correct price. Anything else is deception. As Natalie says under Price Marking legislation there is an obligation to get things right. I have never had a problem with an underpriced item in a supermarket, they will sell it to you and then action a change so it doesn't happen again. It's called good customer relations, which Modelzone obviously couldn't care about. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted March 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hi The supermarkets have another clever trick. We regularly do our shopping on line and have on several occasions noticed that the final bill has been around £5 than originally quoted. On looking at the original email and the receipt it is obvious that certain items have had their prices increased by a substantial amount. For example £1.25 when ordered, £1.99 when delivered. The website states that the price paid is the price ruling on the date of delivery but some of these price hikes look a little suspect to me. You can of course reject anything your not happy with but can you imagine getting the driver to wait whilst you price check the weekly shopping. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Should we really be suprised when he have just sat back and let the spivs take over. Most of it is down to our own greed anyway and there is no going back now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 It might not be the letter of the (oldish) law but I understand in the self-service world items on a shelf are being offered for sale at that price. If you choose to take one then the contract is considered to have been made and the retailer should sell at that price. If it is the wrong price they should then remove all incorrect items from display before offering them back on sale at the correct price. Anything else is deception. As has been posted previously, an item displayed for sale is an 'invitation to treat' and not an 'offer to sell'. The 'offer to buy' is made when the customer presents the item at the checkout and only if the retailer agrees to sell is a contract in force. Displaying items for sale is not an 'offer' in terms of contract law. Where the price displayed is erronious there is no obligation to honour that price, although supermarkets generally have a policy of doing so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggy1953 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I would guess that Modelzone have scored an 'own goal' with that policy as around 15,000 members plus guests know now to look elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusDe Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Not quite the same thing, but....my favourite German beer triple was £3.00 for 4 cans in Tesco for many weeks, then one day shot up 60% to £4.79, prompting me to fire of a email. Next day I got a apologetic phone call from Tesco, offering no explanations other than "prices do go up (and down) depending on what the suppliers charge us" etc and saying she'd let the store know my concerns, all b-s really. Since then the 4 cans have been, £3.99 and £3.49. I've long been convinced all the supermarkets use a random number generator to set their prices, and there is, I suspect, a fair deal of collusion (presumably via the suppliers) on who does the deals and when etc. It is telling that they all reserve the right to kick you out of the store if you start writing down prices etc. Angus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 9, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2012 As has been posted previously, an item displayed for sale is an 'invitation to treat' and not an 'offer to sell'. The 'offer to buy' is made when the customer presents the item at the checkout and only if the retailer agrees to sell is a contract in force. Displaying items for sale is not an 'offer' in terms of contract law. Where the price displayed is erronious there is no obligation to honour that price, although supermarkets generally have a policy of doing so. What happens at a supermarket is typically thus: (A real event that happened to me) I see a bottle wine that is normally over £10 on offer at around a fiver so I take one. It has gone through the till at £10.50 or so along with several other items. I pay my bill then notice the error, I complain. Somebody then checks the shelf, admitting it is priced incorrectly and I am right. Somebody more senior arrives saying "We will have to sell it at the lower price as that was what was on the shelf" and then instructs someone to go and replace the incorrect label. Surely by merely charging more than the stated price an offence must have taken place. I did not agree to pay £10.50! Keith Edit: On this occasion I had purchased several bottles of wine at different discounted prices, only one was wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 OK so we have all assumed that when we get to the till the price will be higher. What if it turns out to be lower ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 OK so we have all assumed that when we get to the till the price will be higher. What if it turns out to be lower ? You could always complain loudly to the manager and demand to pay the higher price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 OK so we have all assumed that when we get to the till the price will be higher. What if it turns out to be lower ? You could always complain loudly to the manager and demand to pay the higher price. Or you could leg it out of the shop as quick as your legs can carry you! Or is that just me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Look, if I do my big shop in Tresco's,,, I bet the prices are Scilly there! Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 What happens at a supermarket is typically thus: (A real event that happened to me) I see a bottle wine that is normally over £10 on offer at around a fiver so I take one. It has gone through the till at £10.50 or so along with several other items. I pay my bill then notice the error, I complain. Somebody then checks the shelf, admitting it is priced incorrectly and I am right. Somebody more senior arrives saying "We will have to sell it at the lower price as that was what was on the shelf" and then instructs someone to go and replace the incorrect label. Surely by merely charging more than the stated price an offence must have taken place. I did not agree to pay £10.50! Keith Edit: On this occasion I had purchased several bottles of wine at different discounted prices, only one was wrong. In this situation there is not a valid contract as the offer to buy and the acceptance were not made in agreement as to the price. This is what gives you the right to say you don't want it at that price and get your money back. The breach of the law is in not having the correct price displayed in proximity to the goods for sale. That is why the retailer generally honours the price marked. The law requires that goods have the correct price displayed, it does not require a retailer to honour an incorrect price inadvertantly displayed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Just going off piste to pick up on the wine issue for a minute..... As a regular wine buyer from my local Tesco, I'm convinced they now follow the MFI/DFS process of sale prices. Take a bottle of wine with a value of £5 and put it on sale for £10. If you sell some at that price great, but a month later put it back on sale at 50% off and it's now down to £5. Everyone thinks they're getting a bargain and sales increase dramatically. It's often this changeover that causes the issues Keith describes. I know the wine we buy is really worth the £5 price tag, so I buy it at that price. As soon as it goes back to £10, leave well alone as it will be back to £5 in a few weeks time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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