RMweb Gold ian Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2012 Flavio, I would have thought that you could do 400mm at 1 in 40 in your head - at least you would have got the right answer that way! It is a 10mm rise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Flavio, I would have thought that you could do 400mm at 1 in 40 in your head - at least you would have got the right answer that way! It is a 10mm rise. Hah! Just because I don't need to take my shoes and socks off to count to 22, doesn't mean I have any arithmetical or any kind of mathematical ability... The basic math I learnt 50 years or so ago is barely remembered and infrequently used... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Sorry, falls from right (high) to left (low) OK, so facing the Canal side, the lower part is on the left? As so: Correct? iD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2012 Oh. I had my building next to yours, and the road falling the other way... Some more clarification is needed, please... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) A bit more calculation of dimensions today. Using Steve's virtually fully-square photo of the front on the building, I applied a bit of maths and utilised a neat feature of Paint.Net (my preferred paint/image tool). By drawing a line on the photo, the length in pixels of that line is displayed as it's drawn. So, by drawing straight lines across the window apertures and brick columns, I can get a reasonably accurate set of dimensions. By then comparing a known dimension (a standard door height of 6ft 6") against the associated pixel length, a ratio can be deduced, which then when applied to all of the pixel lengths gives a full-size measurement (in this case, in Feet). A quick multiplication (by 4 ) gives us the dimensions in model size (in mm). By then comparing an overall length of the model dimension to the previously calculated overall dimension, I can see if I've made a good job or a complete c*ck up. Luckily, in this case, the figures match. So I should now be able to draw up a fairly accurate front elevation, from which I can cut the foamboard. The two sides & rear wall will be much simpler as they are more freelance. Edited October 31, 2012 by Stubby47 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2012 OK, so facing the Canal side, the lower part is on the left? As so: Correct? iD Canal side of your building faces away from the public. The road side faces the public and falls from right (high) to left (low). This is the opposite to your drawing. Stu, what I clarified with you on the other thread is correct. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2012 Will Flavio's building complex be immediately to the left of mine, as viewed from the road ? Will there be a gate entrance between the two road frontages ? I'm intending to add windows to the left side wall, and would put them to the rear end of the wall if Flavio's building would be 'blocking the light' if the windows were further forward. Flavio's building will be to the left of yours but there's a gap between them. No issue with blocking windows. Add windows to your heart's content. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2012 Does 'vary locally' mean I can have a flat road/pavement outside the gate and door, then drop the required 5mmi the lefthand 50mm ? ( 1:40 for 200mm length is a 5mm drop ) Do I need to model the road/pavement, or just indicate the pavement height on the building ? At the moment the land for all the canal side buildings is a series of plateaus following the approx grade. Once the building footprints etc are firmed up their position will be confirmed on the general plots and the land shaped to suit. Thus I can amend slopes locally to suit. A grind line on the building will help me. Footpaths, Kerbs etc will be done on-board in one hit, don't worry about these. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Thanks Chris for all the clarifications - sorry to ask so many questions ! Do you want the Sketch-up file for this building ? Now with added sloping pavement and fire-door... Edited October 31, 2012 by Stubby47 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Presumably this is now correct? If I attach the embossed SEF plasticard to the level of the lowest end, this should allow you to slope the ground aroun it, given that the change of the ground level is only a few mm Edited October 31, 2012 by iL Dottore 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2012 Spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yes please. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 There is no indication of the identity of business as the wall paint-work seems just weathered and no painting-out of earlier lettering. There is evidence of a (brass?) name plate having been attached to the wall in the original pictures to the right of the front door at about eye level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted October 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2012 An interesting observation, Don, which helps to formulate yet another question... If the layout is set in 1950-1970ish, how derelict should the building/gates be ? Steve's photos of 2009 are some 40-60 years later, this building is probably not earlier than 1945? If that assumption (!) is true-ish, then this ought to be a reasonably new building. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 The footprint is: 41cm long (longest edge to end of wall) x 6.9cm wide. Building (including lean-to): 32cm x 6.9cm. Building alone: 27.9cm x 6.9cm. All values rounded UP Hope this helps F 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted November 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2012 "all values rounded UP" This sounds like typical Swiss precision engineering - not sure the 'dreckly' attitude of the pasty county will be so finite... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) I started assembling the shell around the framework and found that the sides are about 2mm - 3mm too long Obviously fairly easy to correct (trim and then sand back). But it does make me wonder whether or not ± 1mm-2mm is about the limit of accurate hand cutting. Anyway, will slog ahead with the shell assembly and should be able to post pictures this weekend iD Edited November 1, 2012 by iL Dottore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 "all values rounded UP" This sounds like typical Swiss precision engineering - not sure the 'dreckly' attitude of the pasty county will be so finite... Not so, this is a basic "Arthur Daily" measurement. If it were Swiss precision engineering, I would have given more accurate figures (to illustrate: the width of the building, as measured by Digital Calipers is actually 6.87cm and not 6.9cm [and what's 0.03cm between friends?]), even to 4 decimal places - which would certainly tax my model making abilities... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I had a look at streetview, Next to the derelict bit of land there is a newish building occupied by a company "Ashmores Press Brake Tooling Limited". So I telephoned them this AM and asked what information they could give me. The guy I spoke to could not understand WHY I should want such information, but took pity on me anyway! The occupiers of the little factory were J.B.Holden Ltd. The brass plate would have shown the Company name and probably "Registered Office". They were metal fabricators, ("Tin bashers") so the factory would have contained a guillotine and a sheet metal bending press, (a "Press Brake"), and a Fly-press for punching holes. There would have been covered racking in the yard for the sheets of thin steel, possibly tin plate from S.Wales. I suspect that the gates would have been in good condition in the '60s but never repainted, so showing some weathering. They would have been "hanging square" since they would have been in regular use for deliveries and despatch of steel and goods in smallish quantities. Finished parts could have been in "stillages" (stackable containers) needing a fork truck to load them onto a flat-bed lorry. During working hours, it is possible that one or both of the gates was kept open. There was almost certainly a wooden access gate at the side of the large gates, as mentioned in an earlier post. In the '60s they would have had a regular collection by the local carriers (even BR?) and the practice was to have a large card displayed in a road-side window asking the carrier's driver to call for a pick-up of goods in parcels, if required that day. Hope this meandering is of some help! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 A. J. Smith (B'ham) Ltd. J. B. Holden Ltd. Got the style right! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted November 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2012 I had a look at streetview, Next to the derelict bit of land there is a newish building occupied by a company "Ashmores Press Brake Tooling Limited". So I telephoned them this AM and asked what information they could give me. The guy I spoke to could not understand WHY I should want such information, but took pity on me anyway! The occupiers of the little factory were J.B.Holden Ltd. The brass plate would have shown the Company name and probably "Registered Office". They were metal fabricators, ("Tin bashers") so the factory would have contained a guillotine and a sheet metal bending press, (a "Press Brake"), and a Fly-press for punching holes. There would have been covered racking in the yard for the sheets of thin steel, possibly tin plate from S.Wales. I suspect that the gates would have been in good condition in the '60s but never repainted, so showing some weathering. They would have been "hanging square" since they would have been in regular use for deliveries and despatch of steel and goods in smallish quantities. Finished parts could have been in "stillages" (stackable containers) needing a fork truck to load them onto a flat-bed lorry. During working hours, it is possible that one or both of the gates was kept open. There was almost certainly a wooden access gate at the side of the large gates, as mentioned in an earlier post. In the '60s they would have had a regular collection by the local carriers (even BR?) and the practice was to have a large card displayed in a road-side window asking the carrier's driver to call for a pick-up of goods in parcels, if required that day. Hope this meandering is of some help! Don - Wow ! Many thanks for doing this research !! Further investigation into J B Holden (Steel Formations) Ltd reveals they were incorporated 18th May, 1967. Which, of course, is near the end of the propsed modelled era. If we assume that JB Holden bought out the previous owner (A. J Smith (B'ham) Ltd), then we can have continuity of industry and all your theories would hold true My only other concern is that this building was attached to several larger sheds, both behind and further along the road - were these part of the same company (in which case the yard might not have been big enough, or just neighbours ? google earth image Still, I like the the idea of racking in the yard... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted November 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2012 Regarding condition, I can't imagine this sort of building looking pristine for many years after building, nor can I imagine lots of money being spent on upkeep. The building on the layout will have a good 20+ years wear, so not as bad as the photos but not a huge amount better. After cleaning, painting and repairs (or demolition!) many buildings now look better than they did in the 70/80s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted November 1, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2012 Right then, grotty it shall be ! Are we happy to use "J B Holden (Steel Formations) Ltd" as the name ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted November 1, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2012 Are we happy to use "J B Holden (Steel Formations) Ltd" as the name ? Any relation to these Holdens I wonder? I'd go with "metal fabricators" rather than "steel formations" - to me the latter sounds a bit modern? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) Didn't have time earlier today to research further, but having seen the satellite shot, I feel that they were sub-contractors to the car industry, and that most in & out activity would have been at the parallel street behind the larger buildings, and it was not the 2-men-and-a-dog outfit that I had assumed! (Edit... the satellite shot shows a car parked across the gateway, indicating that it was not much in use!)At the size / situation planned for the BCB it could easily be home to a sort of modern day blacksmith making welded structures and frames up to (say) bus-shelter size. The outside rack could be home to a range of Plastruct sections.Perhaps the use of the Holden name is not quite appropriate:... how about an anonymous "BCB Fabrications" or similar? Edited November 1, 2012 by DonB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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