cctransuk Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) Just as a counterpoint to the (usually) good news here; I have today received an item that has clearly been the subject of deliberate fraud. I purchased, via Ebay auction, a Ratio 519 large grounded coach body, described as new. It arrived today, but the contents of the (apparently) sealed box comprised a stapled polybag that had been roughly cut open, which (sort of) contained a number of sprues and spare components from at least six separate kits, most not associated with the proper contents of the kit. I have, of course, contacted the Ebay seller - who has said that a full refund will be made and offered an apology. Evidently, he / she has sold-on an item which was not what it purported to be when he / she purchased it! So - we should all be aware that there are those in the buying / selling community who have no scruples about 'selling a pup'. John Isherwood. Edited August 17, 2022 by cctransuk 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 50 minutes ago, PhilJ W said: Does e-bay refund everything or just the cost of the items and not the postage? Phil eBay refunds the lot. As for sending the items back I would write to the seller quoting a price which allows you to safely wrap everything up properly and return the item with the correct postage to cover its original value. If he asks you to return it the same way it was sent you need to get a disclaimer about being responsible for further damage. I would quote in excess of £20 for P&P 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, hayfield said: I think we should take events like the one being reported in to some form of perspective The reason this thread exists is because quite often sellers (usually non railway modellers) recognise railway modelling items do have some value, thankfully not knowing what they are selling and somehow have the ability to take photos out of focus plus having no idea how to present an item I understand that non railway modellers have no idea about gauges, but compounding the issue with out of focus photos I have just bought a couple of chassis from a seller, on the face of it a clear title KEMILWAY ETC `OO` WHITE METAL/BRASS LOCOMOTIVE PARTS (SPARES or RESTORATION) But 7 poorly taken photos and not much more information in the details hid what I guessed was a couple of decent chassis which I thought looked to be to P4 gauge What arrived was 2 built Kemilway etched brass compensated chassis P4 chassis. A 2-6-0 with P4 wheels but no cylinders and connecting rods and a Hall/Manor chassis, no wheels coupling and connecting rods but with cylinders I am hoping that these will easily convert to EM gauge and after a quick refurbishment will result in two new compensated chassis all for under £19, I have a spare cylinder so just need some coupling and connecting rods plus 4 crossheads quite a saving on the price of 2 new etched chassis kits I have 2 more buys coming from the same seller, the last of which was nearly described correctly and had 2 really good photos. 4 Exactoscale (Pre Len Newman) EM/P4 turnout operating units. Luckily there was no mention of Exactoscale on the packets and those who would normally buy there either missed them or are too young to know how good they are . £15 for all 4 which in one way is not cheap, but they are so good and in my opinion have never been equalled. The other is another boring compensated P4 14xx chassis (Kemilway ? certainly not a Percy or Comet) with an Airfix body. Lets hope the post gods are still on my side Well I was both right and wrong, perhaps the fact that the first two chassis were Kemilway coupled with poor photos confused me I was correct about the body being an older Airfix one, a bit tatty the buffers have been replaced with brass sprung ones The chassis is a Comet one, built as a split axel type to P4 gauge, it has a non working Mashima 1020, but has a free running Branchlines gearbox. This time round I was thinking about keeping it to P4 gauge, but whilst its been well built I am not certain on the twin beam compensation on the drivers and the rear wheels are rocking. I think the suspension needs rethinking. Well I have a Comet chassis, hornblocks, Branchlines gearbox and a set of sprung buffers all for the price of a Comet chassis. I could just about see a motor, but I factored it out which seems justified 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) Duplicated Edited August 17, 2022 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted August 17, 2022 Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, cctransuk said: Just as a counterpoint to the (usually) good news here; I have today received an item that has clearly been the subject of deliberate fraud. I purchased, via Ebay auction, a Ratio 519 large grounded coach body, described as new. It arrived today, but the contents of the (apparently) sealed box comprised a stapled polybag that had been roughly cut open, which (sort of) contained a number of sprues and spare components from at least six separate kits, most not associated with the proper contents of the kit. I have, of course, contacted the Ebay seller - who has said that a full refund will be made and offered an apology. Evidently, he / she has sold-on an item which was not what it purported to be when he / she purchased it! So - we should all be aware that there are those in the buying / selling community who have no scruples about 'selling a pup'. John Isherwood. Hiya John. The MR Grounded Coach body kit does normally include the fencing. Also, all of the other sprues seem to be from this kit. The brown ones have chairs (like IKEA, some assembly required!) Tables, "planks" to board over windows, etc. The "Sleepers", to build a base from, have been removed... The creamy colour sprue had some roof parts as far as I can remember.🤔 The body mouldings themselves are from the Ratio MR Coach kit. (The smaller Grounded Coach Body also includes the chairs, etc. The body itself is from the GWR 4-Wheel coach kit.) Obviously, someone has made up the basic kit, and then shoved all the "spare" parts back in the box 🤷🏼♀️ 🐉🙋🏼♀️ Edited August 17, 2022 by Ruffnut Thorston Typo 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said: Hiya John. The MR Grounded Coach body kit does normally include the fencing. Also, all of the other sprues seem to be from this kit. The brown ones have chairs (like IKEA, some assembly required!) Tables, "planks" to board over windows, etc. The "Sleepers", to build a base from, have been removed... The creamy colour sprue had some roof parts as far as I can remember.🤔 The body mouldings themselves are from the Ratio MR Coach kit. (The smaller Grounded Coach Body also includes the chairs, etc. The body itself is from the GWR 4-Wheel coach kit.) Obviously, someone has made up the basic kit, and then shoved all the "spare" parts back in the box 🤷🏼♀️ 🐉🙋🏼♀️ Definitely fraud! CJI. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted August 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 18, 2022 It can happen though, I got done once some time back when I bought at a show a Peco modern brick station/office building kit which was sealed and apparently unused. I never got around to actually opening it and building it so, probably ten or more years later when I found it in my garage I put it on Ebay. When the buyer received it, he contacted me with pictures to tell me that in fact several of the sprues were missing pieces, a previous owner somewhere in the chain had opened it, built one of the two buildings in the kit, put the rest back in, resealed it and then at some point it found its way to a dealer who in good faith sold it to me as a complete sealed kit. Needless to say I wrote it off, sent him a refund and let him keep the bits that were in the box as they could still be useful for something. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 21 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Definitely fraud! CJI. I cannot really comment on your specific case as without knowing all the facts and background info its impossible to make any informed statements However as I said recently many non railway modellers know nothing about the hobby other than model railway items do have value. I often find those in this category try and describe the items often making mistakes in the description Also some modellers do buy items way beyond their ability/skill sets or just make wrong assumptions But as you have pointed out there are a few chancers who want to make a quick buck, I even fell foul to one of the well known ones on here where they very carefully alluded that an item was something it clearly was not (thankfully I managed to get a full refund). There is a fine line where a seller makes a mistake and those who wish to deceive. In the kit building fraternity I have found these to be few and far between. As for those who know nothing about the hobby but take the trouble to recycle a relatives collection, they can be forgiven, as so many gems see the light of day again rather than going to a landfill site 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted August 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 18, 2022 1 hour ago, hayfield said: As for those who know nothing about the hobby but take the trouble to recycle a relatives collection, they can be forgiven, as so many gems see the light of day again rather than going to a landfill site So long as they pack them properly of course otherwise the seller is just the middle man for the goods on their extended journey to the landfill site... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted August 18, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 18, 2022 1 hour ago, hayfield said: As for those who know nothing about the hobby but take the trouble to recycle a relatives collection, they can be forgiven, as so many gems see the light of day again rather than going to a landfill site I admire your charitable view! I rather think they only bother because they think they've found a gold mine. I was in my local model shop the other day and someone had obviously brought a load of rubbish in and was expecting a fortune based on quoted eBay prices. Of course when they tried to explain these were totally unrealistic, he accused them of gaming him and stormed off. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 23 minutes ago, Hal Nail said: I admire your charitable view! I rather think they only bother because they think they've found a gold mine. I was in my local model shop the other day and someone had obviously brought a load of rubbish in and was expecting a fortune based on quoted eBay prices. Of course when they tried to explain these were totally unrealistic, he accused them of gaming him and stormed off. This is not something that is linked to model railways only. I guess we all value our own items highly, when in reality most of our possessions may not be as valuable as we think. If you are selling and decide to off load your items into the retail trade then you will get a fraction of what they are worth in a retail environment. Taking the easy route will always result in a low yield What I try and do is if I have bought from a private seller who seemingly knows little, I usually send them a message upon receipt, more often than not I get a kind reply stating these were from a loved ones collection and are pleased they will be used by an enthusiast As I said the area I am interested in normally is not one the chancers get involved in. I keep away from the high end RTR market. Plus as this thread states I am looking for "good buy's" . I look for the lots which are badly presented and try and find things others miss. On the other hand I like to think if I am thinking twice about something, if its not dead cheap I leave it to someone else At the end of the day when buying at auction its "buyer beware" !!! Thankfully on eBay you have far more protection than traditional auction sites. At all times you are taking a risk, if you cannot accept the risk, then don't buy. On the other hand usually you can manage the risk much better using eBays sellers code 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted August 18, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2022 1 hour ago, hayfield said: …..as this thread states I am looking for "good buy's" . I look for the lots which are badly presented and try and find things others miss. That’s how I work, rhe layout seems to have come to a stop with other commitments but I’ll still buy stuff to add to my stockpile, the buildings I bought were fairly badly listed title and main photo wise had they arrived fine we’re too much of a ‘good buy’ to leave there even though they would have been likely to sit in the box for another god knows how long! my highest bid was actually a lot higher than I paid based on what they are worth to me to even sit on, I genuinely thought others would have spotted them too and that they would be bid up last minute but not so still had no further contact from the seller so he’s got until tomorrow before I can request eBay step in 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 8 minutes ago, big jim said: That’s how I work, rhe layout seems to have come to a stop with other commitments but I’ll still buy stuff to add to my stockpile, the buildings I bought were fairly badly listed title and main photo wise had they arrived fine we’re too much of a ‘good buy’ to leave there even though they would have been likely to sit in the box for another god knows how long! my highest bid was actually a lot higher than I paid based on what they are worth to me to even sit on, I genuinely thought others would have spotted them too and that they would be bid up last minute but not so still had no further contact from the seller so he’s got until tomorrow before I can request eBay step in Big Jim What has happened to you is my biggest nightmare, you actually find the bargain of the year and its either lost or damaged. Your actual loss is far greater than the refund you will receive. Getting your money back is no where near the actual loss you have suffered. The full retail price of what you found is many times the cost you paid. Yet as far as any compensation is concerned your insured loss is its cost to you not its real value As it happens this happened to me quite a few years ago. I won 3 kit built whitemetal locos. The seller said he delegated the dispatch to a friend, who put each loco (none of which had any boxes) into decent sized padded envelopes without any protection. Needless to say all 3 locos arrived in differing forms of being dismantled/smashed/broken I think on this occasion I got quite a big refund and kept the items, but a pile of spares not 3 running locos. I guess only 50% of what I buy are packed to what I would call a sufficient standard, but all but a few survive undamaged As far as your loss, I would expect a massive refund and keep the items, then accept the challenge of restoring them back to life, just think what they do on "The Repair Shop" It may well be that items may need drastic action/additions, but you will end up with something unique !! Good luck 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted August 18, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2022 I have quite a lot of Mainline locos which are not required, all but one that still work, not sure what to do with them, I know that at some stage they will fail, so I don't want to put them on EBay as in all conscience I don't want to burden a buyer especially with postage from Oz with something that may not last long......................Any ideas anyone?? Rgds........Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33C Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Run 'em 'til they fail and then superglue the axle ends back into the plastic bushes. You can get another 2 years (and counting) out of them. Just don't oil the axle slots! A wipe with a sliver of wet 'n' dry to smooth the axle slots seems to be all they need.....then I would transplant the bodies onto old Triang chassis. They will outlast me! 🤪 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 4 hours ago, hayfield said: I cannot really comment on your specific case as without knowing all the facts and background info its impossible to make any informed statements However as I said recently many non railway modellers know nothing about the hobby other than model railway items do have value. I often find those in this category try and describe the items often making mistakes in the description Also some modellers do buy items way beyond their ability/skill sets or just make wrong assumptions But as you have pointed out there are a few chancers who want to make a quick buck, I even fell foul to one of the well known ones on here where they very carefully alluded that an item was something it clearly was not (thankfully I managed to get a full refund). There is a fine line where a seller makes a mistake and those who wish to deceive. In the kit building fraternity I have found these to be few and far between. As for those who know nothing about the hobby but take the trouble to recycle a relatives collection, they can be forgiven, as so many gems see the light of day again rather than going to a landfill site In my case, the Ebay seller was innocent; he had acquired what appeared to be a factory-sealed kit. In fact, the original owner had resealed the packing after placing the sprues and excess components inside. Not, I think, an 'accident'; when the item in question was subsequently sold-on to my Ebay seller! CJI. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikks Posted August 18, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2022 54 minutes ago, 33C said: Run 'em 'til they fail and then superglue the axle ends back into the plastic bushes. You can get another 2 years (and counting) out of them. Just don't oil the axle slots! A wipe with a sliver of wet 'n' dry to smooth the axle slots seems to be all they need.....then I would transplant the bodies onto old Triang chassis. They will outlast me! 🤪 Love your comment, very funny (ha ha, not sarky😁) but as I said, they are not required........been replaced with Bachy Jubes and Hornby rebuilt Scots and Pats...................Also got some Aifix Scots and Fowler 0-6-0's that run fine but are very noisy. I need the storage space!. Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33C Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 How about an offer to "Rails" of Sheffield? They will know the foibles of the breed and would offer accordingly or swap them with something you do want? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 19, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2022 I think I need to join KBA - Kit Buyers Anonymous. Saw a kit I couldn't resist, and it had the added bonus of Markits wheels. Got it for a reasonable price, about £14 below the new price of the kit. However... I didn't look closely enough at the wheels. The drivers are the wrong size and spoke count, and the leading and tender wheels are the right size but wrong spoke count. Fortunately, the drivers are the right ones for A1/A3/A4/B17s which I need loads of, and the tender wheels are correct for the K2/2 I recently bought from London Road Models. So I just need to find a home for 1 axle. Shouldn't be too hard :) I do of course need to buy wheels for this one... 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 19, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Bucoops said: I do of course need to buy wheels for this one... Get 'em from eBay... 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2022 11 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Get 'em from eBay... I do try to! I just seem to always need weird sizes. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2022 (edited) Took a punt on this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325306176986 A black beetle motor bogie for under £50 is pretty good as they are no longer available. The Dapol/Kitmaster/Whoever kit was of mild interest - I assume the builder intended to make it one of the early tram variants. Well it turns out it has been made very well, and the painting isn't bad at all. I guess I'll be looking for a Branchlines chassis for it... The bogie was held in by blu-tac so came out cleanly. The motor bogie has 3ft wheels at 8'6" centres - perfect for most DMUs including the 3 car class 101 DC Kit I have stashed. Edited August 24, 2022 by Bucoops seems they are available 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2022 On 19/08/2022 at 22:08, Bucoops said: I think I need to join KBA - Kit Buyers Anonymous. Saw a kit I couldn't resist, and it had the added bonus of Markits wheels. Got it for a reasonable price, about £14 below the new price of the kit. However... I didn't look closely enough at the wheels. The drivers are the wrong size and spoke count, and the leading and tender wheels are the right size but wrong spoke count. Fortunately, the drivers are the right ones for A1/A3/A4/B17s which I need loads of, and the tender wheels are correct for the K2/2 I recently bought from London Road Models. So I just need to find a home for 1 axle. Shouldn't be too hard :) I do of course need to buy wheels for this one... To be fair to the seller, I gave positive feedback, as the photos showed the wheels, but I did mention in a message they were wrong, just so future listings could perhaps be checked. They offered a £10 refund which I refused. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Bucoops said: A black beetle motor bogie for under £50 is pretty good as they are no longer available. Once again this misinformation. Black Beetles ARE still available from the manufacturer in Australia, and he will send to the UK. John Isherwood. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted August 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Once again this misinformation. Black Beetles ARE still available from the manufacturer in Australia, and he will send to the UK. John Isherwood. Hi John, Oh that's interesting. Do they have a website? Certainly I've not seen them stocked in the UK apart from the odd strange size for some time now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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