AMJ Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Like StuartP says above I do like it when the companies adopt a theme for the names on the locos rather than the random who is paying us money so who will we name it after attitude. The 66's with the Football names echos the LNER. Many railways had castles, halls, shires, rivers and counties. There are more locos named after racehorses and often not on the main lines - many of the quarry Hunslets are named after the quarry owners horses! If I was asked I could easily fiind a series with enough possible options available for a claas of locos. The classical names from the past such as latin or Greek are often re-used. Some names from the past could have a different meaning today - I know of an Iron Maiden for exanple built in 1920 many years before Bruce Dickinson was born! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquireBev Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 If I may play devil's advocate a little, there's little point naming freight locos as they're rarely seen by the general public, and most passenger trains nowadays are bland multiple units unworthy of a name. There is precious little glamour in rail travel in modern Britain, and I doubt that slapping the names of mysterious benefactors onto the side of Pacer units will do anything to change this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 freight locos are just as visible to the public as anything else, this week i was at doncaster and a GBRF footballer went through, a teenage girl on the platform went mental, took loads of photos on her phone and rang her dad to tell him there was a train called Sheff Wednesday, isn't that just the response a namer is meant to provoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brake Compo Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Isn't the real issue less one of the lack of gravitas of many modern names, but their tranistory nature, giving the whole process of naming locos much less meaning, than in the past, when names were for life in the majority of cases (but not of course all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 i think you hit the nail on the head, a name should be for life, so it needs to have substance in the first place, NHS 150, Anytown PSB, some bloke who ran a freight company for a month, not good Sun Castle, Evening Star, Brittania, they will always fire the imagination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2012 Sun Castle, Evening Star, Brittania, they will always fire the imagination Just as, in all probability, will Scafell Pike, Meld, Nimbus, Western Glory and Albion - Avenger - Benbow etc. Ironically Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, Sherwood Forester and Royal Naval Reserve 1859-1959 perhaps don't have quite the same "ring" (intentionally picking examples from much the same classes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Well, once we had a 'Jubilee' Class with all sorts of names from the lore of Empire, so in 2012, commemorating the 'Spirit of '77' why don't we have a 'Stuff the Jubilee' class of locos or units, named after the more illustrious (see what I did there? ) punk bands of the 'silver jube' era? Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2012 punk bands of the 'silver jube' era? You could have one called "God Save The Queen" then But you might need X-ray Spex to see the Polly Styrene (RIP) nameplate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I like the SNCF idea of getting towns to sponsor a name. Many French locos are thus named afetr towns. Bit of advertising for the town, bit of revenue for SNCF. Mind, the french do put SOME of their factories elsewhere than outside Paris..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The trains are (mostly) boring these days - let alone the names they carry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 24, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2012 With a Class of locos, such as the LMS Jubilee's, how many would fail these days as the name of the country, territory, state, province etc, had been changed or had left the Empire/Commonwealth? Or that the warship names had gone because the RN, no longer has ships using those names? Even classic & historically significant names such as HMS Ark Royal are no longer in current usage. Kevin Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Hiya, A personal dislike of mine is that they will name ANYTHING now, On Track Machines and EMU's spring to mind. Nameplates should be for Loco's shouldn't they ? Oooh look there's a 60163 'Meridian' coach let's call it 'Tornado' ! Why ??? Seriously though, who 'controls' nameplates and their application, and when they are taken off etc do they return to a central store room where they are accounted for ? I agree with the above posts regarding the 'nothing' names of recent times, nothing evocative about many of them at all...... To end with a positive point though, there are some blisteringly brilliant ones, on the 67's such as 'Special Delivery', 'Queens Messenger' etc.......Love em' ! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Seriously though, who 'controls' nameplates and their application, and when they are taken off etc do they return to a central store room where they are accounted for ? Whoever they belong to, basically. Which is usually the party that commissioned them, or their successors. For example, at a certain rolling stock company with purple leanings, we 'owned' the loco names inherited from BR/ InterCity, along with those we undertook ourselves, and yes, these plates were returned to the office on removal from the loco, for further use or disposal. Plates that Virgin (other operators are available) had commissioned returned to them accordingly. Owner-operators are rather more straightforward, of course. If you lease a train/ loco then it's a simple engineering change (usually), or a matter of courtesy, to advise the owner that you're naming their asset. More often than not, it's useful as an excuse for a great big piss-up junket in the location chosen for the ceremony, if you're having one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Owner-operators are rather more straightforward, of course. If you lease a train/ loco then it's a simple engineering change (usually), or a matter of courtesy, to advise the owner that you're naming their asset. More often than not, it's useful as an excuse for a great big piss-up junket in the location chosen for the ceremony, if you're having one. I've been told a couple of "urban legend" stories, the first being it took Willesden approximately a day for two men to fit a pair of plates to an AC electric, due to the restricted access within the loco and the amount of stripping work required to secure the name, the locations were known from previous work but the lengths obviously varied and starting to drill the holes only to find one had to go through a post would have been embaressing), so it's slightly more than just sticking them on. The second involves 85101 being named at the Doncaster Works open day in 2003, Network Rail didn't have a full loading gauge profile for a named 85 as this was the first to carry cast plates, so they had to be removed for rail travel as otherwise the loco would have been classed as out of gauge...!! Logic might have dictated you'd use the same route clearanceand profile for the longer and obviously named class 86, but rules are rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 A personal dislike of mine is that they will name ANYTHING now, On Track Machines and EMU's spring to mind. Nameplates should be for Loco's shouldn't they ? That's a bit rough on the TOCs who don't own any locos (which is most of them) and the engineering firms. If Eddie Stobart can give names to lorries I don't see why you can't name OTP. Logic might have dictated you'd use the same route clearanceand profile for the longer and obviously named class 86, but rules are rules. When the 153s were introduced a view was taken on the ER that as it was basically half a 155, everywhere cleared for 155s was automatically cleared for 153s. Unfortunately the (bolted on) cab steps at the 'new' cab end aren't quite in the same place as the (welded on) steps under the proper cab. You can probably guess how we found this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Princess Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 When Thames Trains introduced the Class 166 Turbos I wrote suggesting a list of names of rivers that were in their operational area and could be carried by the Class. There were enough rivers to go round. I had a nice letter back thanking me for the suggestion but saying that these days names were sponsored by firms as railway companies thought them a waste of money. I agree that modern names are mainly naff and pointless, although naming the odd HST power car (or other traction unit) after a railway employee killed in the line of duty is a nice touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I've been told a couple of "urban legend" stories, the first being it took Willesden approximately a day for two men to fit a pair of plates to an AC electric, due to the restricted access within the loco and the amount of stripping work required to secure the name, the locations were known from previous work but the lengths obviously varied and starting to drill the holes only to find one had to go through a post would have been embaressing), so it's slightly more than just sticking them on. There's truth in that. There are a couple of locations on the AL6/AL7 bodysides that lend themselves to nameplate fitment, but you had to be wary away from those. On some plates, we had drilled an extra pair of holes, so that in the event of hitting an obstruction you'd still be able to guarantee the correct number of fixing points. The unused hole(s) would be filled and patch-painted as required. The deep 'ACoRP' plates for example were trickier for LNWR to attach than The Olympian plates, which were a straightforward job at Willesden. When Thames Trains introduced the Class 166 Turbos I wrote suggesting a list of names of rivers that were in their operational area and could be carried by the Class. There were enough rivers to go round. I had a nice letter back thanking me for the suggestion but saying that these days names were sponsored by firms as railway companies thought them a waste of money. I agree that modern names are mainly naff and pointless, although naming the odd HST power car (or other traction unit) after a railway employee killed in the line of duty is a nice touch. At the time, Chris Green was so emphatic about the various sub-brands of Network SouthEast that he would have not let anything dilute the investment message being reflected in their shiny new 'Network Turbo' fleet. I'm not sure who the NSE PR person was that wrote back, but it's fair to say the response you had (I appreciate you're paraphrasing) was slightly misleading. The operators were in no doubt that the new multiple units had less pizzazz than the locos and stock they replaced on services such as those run to Oxford behind named Class 50s and 47s, and despite their newness they would not be welcomed by First Class season ticket holders, who would no doubt have derided their naming too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I like the SNCF idea of getting towns to sponsor a name. Many French locos are thus named afetr towns. Bit of advertising for the town, bit of revenue for SNCF. Mind, the french do put SOME of their factories elsewhere than outside Paris..... They do have a knack of naming TGV sets, in particular, after towns far from an electrified line, let alone an LGV, which probably raises the hopes of the local population, albeit briefly. There have also been several instances of two different items of motive power bearing the same name. Presumably, the relevant authorities enjoyed the welcome so much the first time, they thought they'd try their luck again..... Unless it has changed recently, policy has been only to use town/city/region names for stock, with one exception. CC 6572 carried the name 'Resistance Fer' after what was probably the most organised part of the French Resistance- their speciality was derailing and sabotaging trains.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 That's a bit rough on the TOCs who don't own any locos (which is most of them) and the engineering firms. If Eddie Stobart can give names to lorries I don't see why you can't name OTP. Hi, Of course, you make a good point there. On my logic a TOC wouldn't be able to hold events for good causes and then mark it in any way, so what better excuse than a 'naming ceremony' - whatever it is for. I suppose the same goes for OTP, especially taking into account the money going into this stuff at the moment and the relationships between the companies that build/own them and the people running them. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 the good thing about the stobart naming theme is that its consistent and the vehicle retains the name for life, they don't suddenly rename "Diana" to" M1 Services northbound" gives me an idea, how about girls names for 142s? painted on each cab front. we could start in Manchester with Kimberley and Tracey ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 the good thing about the stobart naming theme is that its consistent and the vehicle retains the name for life, they don't suddenly rename "Diana" to" M1 Services northbound" 86259 "Peter Pan", then "Manchester, the Life and Soul of Britain", and latterly "Les Ross". gives me an idea, how about girls names for 142s? painted on each cab front. we could start in Manchester with Kimberley and Tracey ..... What a night that was.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2012 That's a bit rough on the TOCs who don't own any locos (which is most of them) and the engineering firms. If Eddie Stobart can give names to lorries I don't see why you can't name OTP. There is always "Eddie the Engine" on one of the contracted 66s Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I like the SNCF idea of getting towns to sponsor a name. Many French locos are thus named afetr towns. Bit of advertising for the town, bit of revenue for SNCF. The Brighton also named many of their locos after locations - although I don't suppose that Poplar, Wapping, Shadwell and or Whitechapel actually sponsored the loco in quite that way! However, since the East London Line had just been opened, it is reasonable to assume that this was a deliberate piece of advertising for the new route - even if the result was not the most lyrical set of names. The E tanks were introduced around the time that the Brighton's continental service was being developed and were similarly used to suggest places that could be reached by this service - Bordeaux, Calvados, Burgundy, Macon, Rhine ...... is there a theme developing? Best wishes Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted June 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2012 It seems to me that there is a clear split between names chosen by the railway companies, up to and including BR, that were chosen to make their locos more important and interesting and those which are put on because somebody is willing and able to buy one and put it on a loco. Even in my last days of being interested in the real railways, we had the Deltics, Westerns, Warships (original and Class 50) and even the names on the 47s were distinctive and represented a clear link back to the GWR. Many named classes of diesels and steam locos had a "Class" name, like Castles, Warships etc. as many of the same class carried suitably themed names. Nobody needed to know what class a Merchant Navy was, or a Hunt. Even B1s, which carried some downright silly names, fitted the Antelope theme. You knew that "Springbok" was a B1 or "Offensive Manor" was a Manor or "Bouncey Castle" was.... you get the picture. Nowadays, there is no discernable pattern. There is no distinction between named classes and non named classes of loco. The names carried are so random that they have lost all meaning and sense. Can you tell what class of loco "Motorola PLC" is going to be? To me, naming should be reserved for particular purposes and used sparingly, so it is still a bit special. Commemorating railway staff, I am all in favour. Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, excellent choice. Anything blatantly designed as a publicity promotion for a Council/PLC/Product..... out for me! Commercial namings devalue the whole process of naming locos to the point where it is becoming a joke. Most modern liveries are so complex and garish that spotting a name plate is pretty much impossible on a fast moving train anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 ..........Most modern liveries are so complex and garish that spotting a name plate is pretty much impossible on a fast moving train anyway. I like the Cross Country Trains Voyagers - four bolts where the nameplates used to be - allows you to make up your own........... OK, I'll get mi coat :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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