Maunsell Open second/third

[Mallard60022]

When I checked the Hattons website on Tuesday it showed "more than 10 in stock".  I picked up the phone at once, my order was taken and all appeared well.  As all references to R4538 have now disappeared from the website I shall be awaiting the arrival of postie or his courier equivalent with even more anxiety than is the case when MRJ appears.  I must learn to relax ...

 

Chris

Chris, I though you were the most chilled person on this Forum? (Except when carrying a huge pile of GWR coach reference books of course......).

Quock.

[Graham_Muz]

Just for reference I have collated in a post on my blog today, here,  the prototypical information about S1314S that Hornby have chosen to model in BR Green as R4538.

 

I hope it is of interest.

[chrisf]

 

 

Chris, I though you were the most chilled person on this Forum? (Except when carrying a huge pile of GWR coach reference books of course......).
Quock.

It keeps the heating bills down.

Oh, and the parcel arrived at 8.10 this morning. I think I might relax now.

Chris

 

Edit after reading Mr Muz's learned blog:  My purchase is destined for a representation of Set 110, which came so close to being illustrated in a recent issue of Model Rail, ie the caption appeared but not the piccie!  (Never did find out why/how that happened)

[Graham_Muz]

Chris
 
Set 110 comprised of Brake Composite to Dia 2401 number S6595S and Second Open to Dia 2005 number S1325S.

Hornby have now of course manufactured both coach types

[RFS]

1314 together with BCK 6589 comprised set 104, and the Hornby model does have this set number on the one end of the model.

[coachmann]

Yet again another Hornby product has arrived and almost sold out, so it seems we have to be on the ball to catch things nowadays (I missed out on the Thompson suburbans). I've located an Open Second and purchased 10 minutes ago. Will look neat in blood & custard.

[Ceptic]

Yet again another Hornby product has arrived and almost sold out, so it seems we have to be on the ball to catch things nowadays (I missed out on the Thompson suburbans). I've located an Open Second and purchased 10 minutes ago. Will look neat in blood & custard.

 

In pictures I've seen, the 'Custard' goes right up to the gutter / cant-rail, so less masking / lining. The only thing is, both pics. show the the coaches with two roof rain-strips per side, as mentioned in a previous post.

 

Cheers.

[Ian Hargrave]

Yet again another Hornby product has arrived and almost sold out, so it seems we have to be on the ball to catch things nowadays (I missed out on the Thompson suburbans). I've located an Open Second and purchased 10 minutes ago. Will look neat in blood & custard.

If somewhat short-lived......would love to see it when you've re-liveried it,though.

[coachmann]

Whether respraying it will happen or not depends on getting the glazing out. If it won't budge, then it will remain green as if in worn Bullied paint (my layout is based circa 1953).

[andyman7]

Given the talk of shortages I was rather surprised (and pleased) to be able to buy one at the Chatham show today for £32 from one of the trade stands!

[The Stationmaster]

Supplies seem to have been subject - in at least some cases - to rationing and possibly worse.  Talking to a retailer today he said that he'd received 2 dozen although he was fairly sure that he'd ordered 3 dozen; when he rang Margate to check his order he was told that order records from last year had been destroyed so they couldn't tell him how many he'd ordered.  Nor could they tell why he had been sent 24 when he went on to ask how they knew how many to send him if the records had been destroyed?  

 

Another retailer - who always orders in multiples of 6 received 14 and he was reasonably sure he'd ordered 24 but when he rang Margate to check he got a similar answer - 'order records destroyed'.

 

It really does seem that again Hornby might be playing it less than fair with the retail trade - they have not said anything about rationing and there seem to be plenty available from  Hornby itself.  I'm sorry to have to say this but in view of recent statements from Hornby it does still leave you wondering if they really do value their retailers.  Mind you this particular one had also heard nothing from Bachmann about the withdrawal of the 'Halls' and he said it wasn't on the trade website by yesterday (and he's not the only one I've heard of who is in that situation regarding the 'Halls').

[RCAR6015]

Supplies seem to have been subject - in at least some cases - to rationing and possibly worse.  Talking to a retailer today he said that he'd received 2 dozen although he was fairly sure that he'd ordered 3 dozen; when he rang Margate to check his order he was told that order records from last year had been destroyed so they couldn't tell him how many he'd ordered.  Nor could they tell why he had been sent 24 when he went on to ask how they knew how many to send him if the records had been destroyed?  

 

Another retailer - who always orders in multiples of 6 received 14 and he was reasonably sure he'd ordered 24 but when he rang Margate to check he got a similar answer - 'order records destroyed'.

 

It really does seem that again Hornby might be playing it less than fair with the retail trade - they have not said anything about rationing and there seem to be plenty available from  Hornby itself.  I'm sorry to have to say this but in view of recent statements from Hornby it does still leave you wondering if they really do value their retailers.  Mind you this particular one had also heard nothing from Bachmann about the withdrawal of the 'Halls' and he said it wasn't on the trade website by yesterday (and he's not the only one I've heard of who is in that situation regarding the 'Halls').

"Order records destroyed"  is that the best excuse they can come up with!!

[Oldddudders]

"Order records destroyed"  is that the best excuse they can come up with!!

If there was ever a fire in a BR office, the first document to be lost in the flames was always the record of annual leave taken.....

[coachmann]

Sounds to me like Hornby is rounding up much needed funds when 'rationing' ensures panic buying and rapid sell-outs. The daft thing is, Hornby etc will go into overdrive near Christmas offering everything under the sun to a public starved of RTR, but funds as well!

[darren01]

HI

I had two on Pre-order from my local shop,No coaches into him with his order with Hornby.

Asked him if he could get any,not good,What is it all about trying to get stuff from Hornby,getting very silly now!.

Darren01

[toboldlygo]

HI

I had two on Pre-order from my local shop,No coaches into him with his order with Hornby.

Asked him if he could get any,not good,What is it all about trying to get stuff from Hornby,getting very silly now!.

Darren01

 

You'll probably find that Hornby have a minimum order amount (for example 10 of an item) and won't fulfill orders to retailers if they are less than that. I do get the feeling that Hornby and other manufacturers are only really interested in supplying to the big box-shifters (Modelzone, Rails, Hattons etc) and not the small independents. :/

[The Stationmaster]

You'll probably find that Hornby have a minimum order amount (for example 10 of an item) and won't fulfill orders to retailers if they are less than that. I do get the feeling that Hornby and other manufacturers are only really interested in supplying to the big box-shifters (Modelzone, Rails, Hattons etc) and not the small independents. :/

I don't think that is necessarily the case although it does seem to be the case that smaller shops are the ones most feeling the pinch of product 'rationing'.  All this takes me back to a post I made sometime ago about the question of trust in the hobby and the retail tradeI - in one of the 'local' shops I deal with my pre-order is regarded as exactly that, the retailer holds it for me when he gets it and he expects me to buy it having ordered it, all of which seems fair to me.  But equally having pre-ordered something with him - which I know he has placed an order for with the manufacturer I also expect the manufacturer to play fair and deliver to him what he has ordered.

 

In this case that is not in the least bit difficult because although I haven't ordered one of these coaches I know that, like some things I do have on pre-order with him, he ordered sufficient to cover his requirements from Hornby, last year.  In other words Hornby have had a year to manufacture the number of models it had pre-ordered so it can hardly have got things wrong on the number the market wanted even if they only manufactured to the pre-ordered level; what could be simpler?  They know exactly how many of something their customers want before they actually make them, an ideal way to do business in these difficult times.  And having pre-ordered it months in advance we ought to be sure that when something finally does appear from China it has been made in sufficient quantities to deliver what we want (and in some cases might have paid a deposit for).  Looks like another area Mr Canham should be investigating

[Ceptic]

You'll probably find that Hornby have a minimum order amount (for example 10 of an item) and won't fulfill orders to retailers if they are less than that. I do get the feeling that Hornby and other manufacturers are only really interested in supplying to the big box-shifters (Modelzone, Rails, Hattons etc) and not the small independents. :/

 

I too, was told this, some years back, by an owner of a local, favourite, model shop.

He frequently tried to order enough for his customers, but if this fell below the 'minimum order', then he, and the customer fell victim to 'pot luck'.

[Adrian Wintle]

 - in one of the 'local' shops I deal with my pre-order is regarded as exactly that, the retailer holds it for me when he gets it and he expects me to buy it having ordered it, all of which seems fair to me.  But equally having pre-ordered something with him - which I know he has placed an order for with the manufacturer I also expect the manufacturer to play fair and deliver to him what he has ordered.

 

In this case that is not in the least bit difficult because although I haven't ordered one of these coaches I know that, like some things I do have on pre-order with him, he ordered sufficient to cover his requirements from Hornby, last year.  In other words Hornby have had a year to manufacture the number of models it had pre-ordered so it can hardly have got things wrong on the number the market wanted even if they only manufactured to the pre-ordered level; what could be simpler?  They know exactly how many of something their customers want before they actually make them, an ideal way to do business in these difficult times.  And having pre-ordered it months in advance we ought to be sure that when something finally does appear from China it has been made in sufficient quantities to deliver what we want (and in some cases might have paid a deposit for).

 

 

This is exactly the marketing model that North American modellers have been dealing with for years, with the added caveat that, if there are insufficient pre-orders, the model (or livery) might get cancelled. I don't believe there are issues of 'minimum orders' (aside from the big one mentioned), so everybody who orders by the deadline should get their order. It does mean that if you think you might want something, you do need to pre-order it. This doesn't apply to a couple of manufacturers (notably Kato), but tends to be the norm. Also, the number of extras the manufacturer orders can vary (usually based on the size/financial viability of the manufacturer).

 

Yes, it means you order new things sight unseen, and have to anticipate your needs up to a year or more out (or hope that the distributers/retailers ordered enough extras on spec).

 

Adrian

[coachmann]

Comfirmation just recieved that a BR(S) open third has been despatched, so I have joined their mailing list seeing as they could deliver the goods. Like the Hornby Thompson non-corridor coaches, I feel it is one of those models where it is simply not worthwhile building one (I missed out on the Thompsons though).

[coachmann]

 

Yes, it means you order new things sight unseen, and have to anticipate your needs up to a year or more out.

 

Adrian

When someone requires my services they know what to expect after 40 years. Hornby have crapped in their own nest with the 'design clever' tag with the result that buyers no longer know exactly what level of detail to expect. At least we now know we can safely pre-order a Duke of Gloucester with wire handrails on the smoke deflectors, but will some of the other grab handles be the poor representations seen on the GWR 42XX 2-8-0T? Their coaches should be a safe bet but it is always better to see the things before purchase rather than shelling out blind. I feel RMweb could assist by posting a picture of a new release a.s.a.p.

[darren01]

Hi

 

The thing about pre-ordering,If the shop only just gets enough models in to cover some of his pre-orders,What dose he have on the shop shelves to sell?.

 

I would rather walk into my local shop have a chat,look round,have chat and then buy what I needed.

 

Not pre-ordering and then wait and hoping the model you want is right and you will get one as well,I can see the local small shop will disappear slowly leaving the big players still selling,I see these as sad time's ahead.

 

Darren01

[Adrian Wintle]

When someone requires my services they know what to expect after 40 years. Hornby have crapped in their own nest with the 'design clever' tag with the result that buyers no longer know exactly what level of detail to expect. At least we now know we can safely pre-order a Duke of Gloucester with wire handrails on the smoke deflectors, but will some of the other grab handles be the poor representations seen on the GWR 42XX 2-8-0T? Their coaches should be a safe bet but it is always better to see the things before purchase rather than shelling out blind. I feel RMweb could assist by posting a picture of a new release a.s.a.p.

 

This can be a big issue with North American models.You don't necessarily know what you are going to get, and the order deadlines are such that, if you are lucky, you might see an engineering mockup before the deadline. Case in point, when Fox Valley's N-scale ES44 loco first came out they released it in Norfolk Southern knowing there were two visual features that were wrong (cab light position and end handrails). When NS started painting them into heritage schemes Fox Valley ran a second release, retooled for NS, to capitalize on this. It was only when that release arrived that we realized that it only meant that they had moved the headlights. The handrails (bright yellow, so quite visible) were still wrong. It is not something that is easy (or even practical) to correct, so I am studiously ignoring the ones on the one (and likely only) loco of that release.

 

Adrian

[The Stationmaster]

Hi

 

The thing about pre-ordering,If the shop only just gets enough models in to cover some of his pre-orders,What dose he have on the shop shelves to sell?.

 

I would rather walk into my local shop have a chat,look round,have chat and then buy what I needed.

 

Not pre-ordering and then wait and hoping the model you want is right and you will get one as well,I can see the local small shop will disappear slowly leaving the big players still selling,I see these as sad time's ahead.

 

Darren01

Somewhere in the process someone has to take a commercial risk Darren.  Shops might do - and some definitely do - by ordering in excess of customer pre-orders and taking the rest into stock; that is their risk. The 'manufacturer' could do exactly the same and might indeed have to do so because the supplying only works in multiples of x and their trade orders amount to x+y - so they need to buy from the factory in the next higher multiple of x in order to cover x+y, thus they manufacture a surplus above orders and take those into stock against future retailer orders.

 

But any manufacturer will to some extent work on past experience and in view of the numbers of some Maunsell coaches which have crowded the shelves of Hornby's Modelzone concession they might have decided not to go for the higher multiple of x - although to me that would be on a par with putting thh cart before the horse and represents another misreading of sales through the concession route.

[RCAR6015]

Perhaps the scrap rate from the "new" manufacturing plant is so high that Hornby having ordered say 5000 units only receive 3000 - the factory having run out of various component parts are unable to complete the order?

 

 

edited for spelling