Maunsell Open second/third

[ady77014]

Hears a tip if you can't find one from the model shop. I pick up one in Toymaster. Although I had to pay the full RRP but at least it wasn't 50 pounds. I loved the repaint, but won't Hornby do a Blood & Custard in time anyway?

[Oldddudders]

Hears a tip if you can't find one from the model shop. I pick up one in Toymaster. Although I had to pay the full RRP but at least it wasn't 50 pounds. I loved the repaint, but won't Hornby do a Blood & Custard in time anyway?

Well, maybe. Hornby's supply problems - well-aired in several other threads on RMweb - mean that I think it is quite difficult to see a future pattern in their re-liverying Maunsells, because the range has not increased recently. Four different liveries have by no means exhausted all the permutations on existing models - and it is quite some time since any new versions of existing vehicles appeared. Instead we have had the Van C in blue and then crimson, and the Bogie Van B in olive, with BR green livery to come. Then we have the pull-push set, which spawned the vehicle in this thread, which is also promised in olive. I wouldn't want to predict when, if ever, we might get a crimson & cream version, frankly.

[ady77014]

Well, maybe. Hornby's supply problems - well-aired in several other threads on RMweb - mean that I think it is quite difficult to see a future pattern in their re-liverying Maunsells, because the range has not increased recently. Four different liveries have by no means exhausted all the permutations on existing models - and it is quite some time since any new versions of existing vehicles appeared. Instead we have had the Van C in blue and then crimson, and the Bogie Van B in olive, with BR green livery to come. Then we have the pull-push set, which spawned the vehicle in this thread, which is also promised in olive. I wouldn't want to predict when, if ever, we might get a crimson & cream version, frankly.

 

Fair enough. And as I said he did a really good job on it...

 

I just happy I got on.e I only got one other Maunsell in BR green (a BCK), plus three old Ian Kirk models (which is still under construction waiting how I can figure out how to fit the roofs) to make up a short Bulleid three coach set. That have to do.

[RFS]

Well, maybe. Hornby's supply problems - well-aired in several other threads on RMweb - mean that I think it is quite difficult to see a future pattern in their re-liverying Maunsells, because the range has not increased recently. Four different liveries have by no means exhausted all the permutations on existing models - and it is quite some time since any new versions of existing vehicles appeared. Instead we have had the Van C in blue and then crimson, and the Bogie Van B in olive, with BR green livery to come. Then we have the pull-push set, which spawned the vehicle in this thread, which is also promised in olive. I wouldn't want to predict when, if ever, we might get a crimson & cream version, frankly.

I think the problem with the crimson-and-cream Maunsells is that they're just not selling.  They've been on special offer at Hatton's, for example, for ages - still loads in stock even at £19-20 for most of them.  And many other suppliers have plenty too. I can't see another variant of these coaches coming out any time soon, although I suspect a re-run of the BR green ones might do quite well.

[Dunsignalling]

I think the problem with the crimson-and-cream Maunsells is that they're just not selling.  They've been on special offer at Hatton's, for example, for ages - still loads in stock even at £19-20 for most of them.  And many other suppliers have plenty too. I can't see another variant of these coaches coming out any time soon, although I suspect a re-run of the BR green ones might do quite well.

You are probably right about BR Maunsells - previous releases in green disappeared pretty rapidly. For what it's worth, my own little fleet is strongly biased that way.

 

Judging by the (evidently) slower sales of other liveries, I can only assume that Hornby make equal batches of each. This might be OK for other regions but green was very quickly re-applied to almost all eligible stock after it was authorised, making the first BR colours relatively short-lived on the Southern.

 

I'd still like a 3-Set 'P' in Crimson/cream, though!

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

Fair enough. And as I said he did a really good job on it...

 

I just happy I got on.e I only got one other Maunsell in BR green (a BCK), plus three old Ian Kirk models (which is still under construction waiting how I can figure out how to fit the roofs) to make up a short Bulleid three coach set. That have to do.

Don't know how far you have got with the Kirk Bulleids, but I built mine as separate bodyshell and chassis units, contrary to the instructions.

 

It appeared almost impossible to obtain a satisfactory fit of the roof without getting at least one finger inside! 

 

The two parts are held together with bits of studding screwed into plastic blocks and glued to the roof. The studs pass though holes in the floor and are secured with a nut and washer from below. Another nut and washer above the floor is adjusted to prevent body distortion arising from the fixing nut being over-tightened.

 

John

[andyman7]

BTW Hamleys (yes, the one in Regent Street London - a Hornby concession) have the Maunsell SO in stock at RRP too. Believe it or not since they took on the concession they have become worth checking out, good stock, a good range, their very own rep and whilst default is RRP sale prices can be phenomenal (currently they are selling the Northern Pacer Railbus at £50 - £30 less than Hattons....).

[RFS]

RRR Models have the R4538 in stock at £36 - http://www.rrrmodels.co.uk/Hornby-coaches-brsr-c-2_4_5.html?page=1&sort=3a .

 

They also still have BR green Maunsells in stock but only the first and composite coaches - all at £25, plus the full range of crimson and cream.  Also the SR green ones (later plain livery) at £26.

[PrestburyJack]

Backdating to Southern version wasn't that difficult. Just remove BR numbers and add Southern,  Class 3 to doors and new coach number, in this case 1327.

 

But is this the correct green for Southern Railway, wouldn't it have been Malachite Green rather than BR Green?

 

Not wrong. But Hornby seems to have used the same shade of green for both later-Southern and BR(S) coaches. Kinda convenient, perhaps. Similarly Coachmann's crimson is a bit brighter than Hornby's - and he knows quite a lot about coach colours. Colour is a minefield.

 

The S.Region kept a lot of it's coaches in malachite and simply revarnished them. It was reputedly a hardy paint in any case. By the time of the BR livery chnages in 1965, the malachite had slightly darkenned and BR adopted a shade that closely matched. I should think one would get away with using the Hornby green for either postwar malachite of post 1956 locos-hauled green.

 

The only thing to remember when backdating the BR Maunsells is the water tank fillers were a later fitting. They were originally just handrails and went into the top of the end, not up on the roof.

 

So are you saying (and I bow to your greater knowledge and experience) that Hornby are correct in using the same green for SR and BR green?

 

The reason I ask is that, despite what Hornby Customer Services told me, they didn't use the same green in the 1980s as this picture of 2 Hornby 'pseudo-Maunsells' from the 1980s shows - although I accept that this could just be because they were wrong in the past and correct now.

 

I've resisted buying SR Maunsells up to now, but if the green is correct for Southern Railway after all, I will have to get some whilst they are still available!

 

Cheers, Gary

[coachmann]

I wouldnt get to hung up on green unless you are modelling whole consists of coaches that all entered service on the same day. The paint may not have varied much when applied but a coaches sphere of operation or whther one side regularly faced the sun or the sea could make a difference over time. It certainly happened to Rail blue Class 33's. Colour photos may not be accurate from a printing and reproduction point of view, but when they show different greens in a single shot, it's proof that trains exhibited different shades of green.

[andyman7]

The shade of Malachite Hornby used in the 1980s was a delightful colour but definately on the somewhat lurid side. The shade used now seems to fit far better with surviving photos, preserved examples etc, notwithstanding the issues raised by Coachmann and others regarding the minefield that is perception

[Oldddudders]

So are you saying (and I bow to your greater knowledge and experience) that Hornby are correct in using the same green for SR and BR green?

 

 

I think this thread, started by 10800, and including some telling photos, shows that the green is the same - and in neither era does it shout "wrong" to me. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6596-maunsells-in-late-sr-green/

 

As Larry has pointed out, colours fade and weather - particularly true for a railway with so much coastal trackage -  and Southern was famous for regularly re-varnishing its coaches, with attendant darkening of the original colour.

 

The choice is ours.

[PrestburyJack]

I wouldnt get to hung up on green unless you are modelling whole consists of coaches that all entered service on the same day. The paint may not have varied much when applied but a coaches sphere of operation or whther one side regularly faced the sun or the sea could make a difference over time. It certainly happened to Rail blue Class 33's. Colour photos may not be accurate from a printing and reproduction point of view, but when they show different greens in a single shot, it's proof that trains exhibited different shades of green.

 

 

The shade of Malachite Hornby used in the 1980s was a delightful colour but definately on the somewhat lurid side. The shade used now seems to fit far better with surviving photos, preserved examples etc, notwithstanding the issues raised by Coachmann and others regarding the minefield that is perception

 

 

I think this thread, started by 10800, and including some telling photos, shows that the green is the same - and in neither era does it shout "wrong" to me. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6596-maunsells-in-late-sr-green/

 

As Larry has pointed out, colours fade and weather - particularly true for a railway with so much coastal trackage -  and Southern was famous for regularly re-varnishing its coaches, with attendant darkening of the original colour.

 

The choice is ours.

 

Thanks everyone  looks like I will be buying SR green Maunsells after all  

[gc4946]

Today I eventually tracked down and bought one of these in York before I went to the Great Gathering event at the NRM.

 

I remember one of these as a fixture in Fratton's sidings for many years up to my teens and this is the one that was bought and lovingly restored on the Bluebell. On my last visit there I made a beeline for that carriage just to see how different it was compared with seeing it (albeit from a distance) as a kid when it was in departmental service http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=401

 

However ... having paid serious money for that I'm not modifying my model to represent it in the condition as shown in this image

http://www.departmentals.com/photo/70313a

 

 

 

 

 

[Gilwell Park]

Today I eventually tracked down and bought one of these in York before I went to the Great Gathering event at the NRM.

 

I remember one of these as a fixture in Fratton's sidings for many years up to my teens and this is the one that was bought and lovingly restored on the Bluebell. On my last visit there I made a beeline for that carriage just to see how different it was compared with seeing it (albeit from a distance) as a kid when it was in departmental service http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=401

 

However ... having paid serious money for that I'm not modifying my model to represent it in the condition as shown in this image

http://www.departmentals.com/photo/70313a

Hi  Had a ride in the open thirds at the Bluebell earlier today, a lovely coaches.  Also the three non corridors in the same set. All in Maunsell green.  SECR birdcage brake, LBSC first and, I think, LSWR.  Lovely restorations and show the benefit of keeping stock in a shed.

 

Roger.

[Mallard60022]

The Bluebell Maunsells (restored) are lovely coaches and are kept in an immaculate condition by a very dedicated team.

P

[coachmann]

The only thing to be aware of in restoration is some things are not backward-engineered apart from the livery. It must be convenient to fill the lavatory water tanks via the end pipes/handrails, but this facility was not open to SR men prewar when full panelled Olive was in vogue.

[John M Upton]

Just realised I photographed and rode on that very same carriage during the Model Railway Weekend a few weeks back:

[Charlie]

They are lovely, but horrendously hot in weather like this. As we found out this weekend just gone...

[coachmann]

I would say that SR full lined livery is representative of the mid 1930s after a repaint.

 

Just realised I photographed and rode on that very same carriage during the Model Railway Weekend a few weeks back:

 

 

It would have had wood coloured window bolections as built.

[Oldddudders]

I would say that SR full lined livery is representative of the mid 1930s after a repaint.

 

 

It would have had wood coloured window bolections as built.

We can only hope that when R4537 finally appears it has those.

[tender]

We can only hope that when R4537 finally appears it has those.

 

Not arriving any time soon by the looks of it, just had yet another email from a well known distributor  'Our latest information from the supplier suggests this item will arrive with us on or after Wednesday 1st January 2014'

[Purley Oaks]

Don't think it's been mentioned on here but there's a movie shot courtesy of Railway Roundabout 1958 Southampton Docks showing a Maunsell Open 2nd (I think) squeezed between two Bulleid sets here:

 

 

It's around the 45 second mark

 

mal

[RFS]

Don't think it's been mentioned on here but there's a movie shot courtesy of Railway Roundabout 1958 Southampton Docks showing a Maunsell Open 2nd (I think) squeezed between two Bulleid sets here:

 

 

It's around the 45 second mark

 

mal

That's not an open second - you can see there's a door between every window. I believe it's the corridor side of a low-window corridor second.

[Purley Oaks]

D'oh, apologies for my error.

mal