RMweb Premium 7013 Posted July 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2012 GWR Steam/diesel era, no need for that electric stuff! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 They are a lovely model, straight out of the box. I've stood and admired a number of them at the shows I've attended recently and whilst tempted, I still won't get one (yet) as it just doesn't quite sit with my modelling theme which is more east-coast ML focussed. I don't think the lack of OLE could completly put me off... I could always couple it to a 47 that was towing it through a non-ole equipped part of the network... so see no issue here. It's just not quite my thing. There could well be appeal for the earlier ALs, they were "different"; an 86 would probbaly clash too closely with Heljan's recent offering (market already taken?) but a fine 87 would be nice! I think that as a first ac electric from Bach it should hopefully do well... and I hope that it does do well; otherwise we might not see the rest of the fleet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbb Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Lovely model, certainly the best 4mm RTP electric loco so far by a country mile; the electric blue tho' looks slightly too purple in tone and the cab surrounds are too grey and not enough 'off white' for me, otherwise I would buy one. working pantographs would also help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I would love to get one but obviously they will be no use on Leeds Weeklyn Hill, my home layout will be Trans Pennine Manchester area in the 1980's obviously without Overhead Wires as I want to run steam specials. I would buy one to use on drags (I have an old Lima 87 that will also do this) but I am not keen on paying £100 for what is basically a coach, if I ever found a cheap non-runner that would be different. If we get some more good quality electrics I might reconsider and get some more and put wires up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It's just speculation they arn't selling, we need official confirmation (unless I missed it) from Bachmann how sales of both this and the desiro are going. Absolutely Mark - actually traders I speak too say its selling very well indeed. This is not a poll to examine 'why' its not selling because it is, it's to establish if the tired old arguement of OLE locos wont sell without OLE has any bearing in truth which so far it appears not to be the case. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Country Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It is a certainly a stunning model, and 10 years ago I would have loved one. But then I went into N gauge so now I admire it from afar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleefy Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm skint and will have to wait for a box-shifter to put 'em on sale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Scottish Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Well I've got my electric blue version attached to 5 Bachmann maroon Mk1s running around my layout with no OHLE and it looks the bees knees. It looks easily capable of taking another 5, I just don't have the space. I have reached saturation point in locos, and have become more discerning over the last 2/3 years but I had to have this one as its something different. It looks very accurate to me , well finished and above all at £85 Hattons pre order price it is value for money compared to some very expensive Hornby models around at moment. With directional lighting and internal lighting it looks very smart .There was also the nostalgia factor as it reminds me of my old Triang Blue AL1 still with me , but alas mechanically worn out! Placing them side by side shows how far we've come in 45 years- although aged 5 through 50 I'm still prepared to run them without OHLE and let imagination do the rest. Perhaps I haven't progressed as much! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
definate maybe Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It looks a lovely model but I need to focus spare cash on making a start on my actual model for which I can not justify a class 85. In general terms you would also need to look at the bigger picture. Running an 85 is not a problem in itself but a lot of modellers would want a first generation emu or similar to fit along side it. I know kits are available but I think alot of modellers like to have the majority of stock available ready to plonk/ run and will happily build the odd coach/ wagon kit but it takes either a rich/ brave or talented modeller to take something like an emu kit on without little/ no prior building ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 One cannot model everything and there has to be some lines drawn somewhere. Like many models it just doesn't, and probably will never, fit in with what I model. That doesn't mean it is a bad model or one that others may really find fits with what they model. Just that electrics have never been my cup of tea. But if I were to see one on a layout - I really think it would be out of place without OHLE and would look as bad as southern electrics without 3rd rail. That the OHLE is RTP or carefully crafted from bits of brass tube and wire is of no importance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 ...This is not a poll to examine 'why' its not selling because it is, it's to establish if the tired old arguement of OLE locos wont sell without OLE has any bearing in truth which so far it appears not to be the case. Well, there's not much call for BR electrics on an Edwardian GWR branch line, but I do have a few Bavarian examples on my German/Austrian/Italian layout set in a wholly imaginary location. Hopefully, one day I'll get around to adding the OLE -- probably Sommerfeldt components -- but, in the meantime, I do run the electrics without it. What I can't say is whether I'd be so relaxed about the lack of OLE if I were modelling in a BR electric context as I'd probably be much more concerned about fidelity to prototype than I am with my Bavarian examples. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm right in thinking that these locos only ran on the WCML their whole working life? Doesn't that limit their appeal? Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartb Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have always had a liking for Electric Loco's, and have purchased a AL5 in Electric Blue. I will be buying a BR Blue one as well, but I want a head code BR one. I would like to see some ohle equipment produced, but if not I will still buy more loco's. . The same argument was said about third rail emu's years ago, that they would not sell. I do so hope the AL5 sells well, and look forward to some more electric loco's and ohle emu's coming out. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm right in thinking that these locos only ran on the WCML their whole working life? Doesn't that limit their appeal? Best, Pete. I don't think that argument works here Pete - the S&DJtR 2-8-0s had a much smaller working area while the Well Tanks as modelled by Kernow worked in an area you could walk across in a day with time to spare for a good pub lunch. There might be something in the appeal of the bucolic and unusual which has helped the sales of them but I suspect both are appearing on layouts well outside their normal orbit of operation (and I bet the same will also happen with the AL5/Class 85 - ohle or no ohle). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm right in thinking that these locos only ran on the WCML their whole working life? Doesn't that limit their appeal? Best, Pete. Hi Pete. ECML, Deltic? Much shorter timescale and more restricted traffic types. You could argue the same for A4s too. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 To be honest Jim, I don't think the argument about lack of RTP OLHE can really hold anymore. The majority of people will buy what fits or what they like the look of. Besides, there must be plenty of examples of failed or diverted electrics having to be hauled by some of their diesel bretheren. This is how I will be running it, with a Class 50 shell on wheels as its "helper" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hi Pete. ECML, Deltic? Much shorter timescale and more restricted traffic types. You could argue the same for A4s too. Cheers Jim Very reasonable answer, Jim. Except you're assuming that people see them in the same popular "romantic" light - I suspect Duchesses were more popular too. Reading between the lines on this site there's an awful lot of people simply buy locos on a whim..... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I would still have bought my 3 x 85s even if the decision had been made not to eventually have wires. right now i run mine around Muir Bank pans down-but so what? they still look the business whether hauling my speedlinks or expresses or even light engine and I just resort to imagination for now. under wires it will look truly epic and far more authentic. wires will be the icing on the cake but remains a long term WIP of mine. it would look silly if the layout was being exhibited but its not so I have free rein of modelling licence. i hope those at the helm and nobody here is thinking about sales now, today as being the be all and end all-it isnt. a new model surely doesnt qualify as a failed venture just because it may not (and I dont know the facts here) have sold out in its first few months. the model is likely to be around for many years now and any sales figures should be looked at in the round but really us as mere modellers will only get the sort of low level feedback the likes of which Jim has obtained from retailers. i am still glad to hear Jim saying some retailers are reporting good sales of the 85 - it deserves nothing less tbh and it would be a real blow to many modellers who like their ACs if manufacturuers decided not to follow the 85 up. diesel, steam and 3rd rail electric is well catered for now. it would be a crime not to see new AC locos to replace at least the aging 87 and 90 of Hornby. somebody up there mentioned a fine 87 would be nice - yes it certainly would - something more substantial than the lightweight Limby model that can comfortably haul 10+ coaches. Maybe Dapol have this base covered already? - lets see what their new catalogue contains on the 18th july...........it may be too soon if they want to get a handle on the 85s success though........sorry if ive gone off at a tangent but I live in hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hi Pete. ECML, Deltic? Much shorter timescale and more restricted traffic types. You could argue the same for A4s too. Cheers Jim As Pete said... I honestly think there is a difference between a really nice electric loco and a twin engined two stroke blowered Deltic... which emits a sound that has a similar effect (to me at least) as that of the Rolls Royce Merlin at full power... hmmmmmmmmm lovely. Not everybody's cup o'tea I admit, but I suspect there are few "modern" classes of such a small fleet that had (and still have) such an active following. The 85 is nice... as is the 86 and 87... and 81-84... but they're similar. There ain't nothing much similar to a 55 (and yes some will say "thankfully"). I'll climb off the soap box now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 When the Watford Junction baseboards are added to my Croxley WRD layout - I might get one XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Very reasonable answer, Jim. Except you're assuming that people see them in the same popular "romantic" light - I suspect Duchesses were more popular too. Reading between the lines on this site there's an awful lot of people simply buy locos on a whim..... Best, Pete. Absolutely so Pete That's why manufacturers can't just work out a list graph of time vs lines travelled and work their way down the list (although I tend to think of the sound of a deltic less like a spitfire and more like earth moving equipment - sorry Jon) Would the previously mentioned well tank have sold as many if it didn't look sweet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs4 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I may be atypical or there may be something very, very wrong with me but... I have 3 by 85s (2 BR blue, 1 electric blue). None have turned a wheel yet - only one has been out of its box... 6 or 7 Heljan 86s.... A couple of 87s, 4 or 5 by 92s, same again for 90s, probably enough APTs to cut & shut a proper set and 3 by 350s plus come to think of it a Pendo too....and a 91 rake No catenary on my layout although I do have 3 boards from Leeway Park which has a lovely run of wires. Needs space and time to get working again. I am guilty of buying what I like... I can't quite get to grips with running AC stuff unless it's being dragged by a diesel, I'm no rivet counter but it's got to be half plausible for me. Anyway....confessional over. Bless me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I will be buying a small fleet of them once I've got the new layout shed insulated and baseboards installed (although if I see a certain Liverpool box shifter is selling out I might have to divert funds for a quick purchase!). I would like OHLE but given my (some would say irrational) mental block with soldering irons, I'm going to have to find a work-around for that using the best available RTP kit to do so as hand knitting OHLE would be too expensive given my wanton destructive abilities with soldering irons. However, I'm quite prepared to invoke penalty points on my modellers licence and invoke Rule 1 and run the WCML on a new type of radio based electrical transmission yet to be invented if I am unable to install OHLE due to a lack of suitable commercially available kits. Anyone easily offended by such heresy will have to deal with it, if I'm satisfied, that's all that matters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2012 Absolutely so Pete That's why manufacturers can't just work out a list graph of time vs lines travelled and work their way down the list (although I tend to think of the sound of a deltic less like a spitfire and more like earth moving equipment - sorry Jon) Would the previously mentioned well tank have sold as many if it didn't look sweet? Probably exactly that Jim. There is no doubt that some loco types sell because they have a special cachet but equally the buyers - if they run them - do a lot of geographic bending to 'justify' their purchase, or just have a bit of fun. This thread indicates that might be happening with the AL5 (maybe more so than the Class 85 - we don't know the answer to that, but Bachmann will) and it seems lack of ohle may be just as acceptable as running other locos on impossible duties in unlikely places simply because they appeal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUNFOS Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 When Polmadie is finished the next diorama planned is about 8feet of the top end of Harlescott loop on the Shrewsbury - Crewe line. It has it all, 25's plus 4 MK 1s, frieghtliners,bulk salt, fertillizer,Motorail, Crewe works test trains [ I've got a pic of 47 628 in a very odd shade of GWR green that was soon ammended] but most of all it was used as a diversion route when the Wolverhampton - Crewe line was having promblems. It seemed to be quite frequent in the early 80's. Was always a great suprise to be caught out by the first sighting but then we knew there more to come. So an 85 will be a feature behind a CD 47 as would a decent 86 and 87 so come on Bachmann give us the two to match the 85's standard. The new 40 will be useful to!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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