A question about the Bachmann 85 for those not buying them

[wombatofludham]

There is no doubt that some loco types sell because they have a special cachet but equally the buyers - if they run them - do a lot of geographic bending to 'justify' their purchase, or just have a bit of fun.

 

Slightly off topic but I do intend to get me a full Orange PSE TGV set numbered 01 to run on the layout simply because I went on it in original unrefurbished condition way back in the 1990s on holiday in France. It will be taking geographc bending to the extreme having one on a WCML layout, but I've always wanted one ever since riding it!

[jonathan452]

I have bought the TOPS one (85026) even if it 'slightly' pre-dates the Virgin era.

 

But a little 'mix and match' never went amiss.

 

I'm right in thinking that these locos only ran on the WCML their whole working life? Doesn't that limit their appeal?

 

Best, Pete.

Slightly off topic but did a Class 81 visit Southend (LTS) on an excursion towards the end of its working life? So a bit more scope for some 'artistic license'.

[Gwiwer]

Absolutely Mark - actually traders I speak too say its selling very well indeed. This is not a poll to examine 'why' its not selling because it is, it's to establish if the tired old arguement of OLE locos wont sell without OLE has any bearing in truth which so far it appears not to be the case.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

If I needed OHLE on the layout the first place I would stop for advice would be with Jim's Birmingham New Street project. Assuming there was no RtP kit (or none of suitable quality and type) I would take it as a challenge to emulate Jim's work from scratch and acknowledge the master in doing so.

 

The fact remains I have no need of any electric locos for operation and don't collect for display purposes. The closest a WCML electric ever got to my themed area was when E3044 was displayed at Bristol Bath Road (RIP) open day - back in 1971 IIRC.

[brushman47544]

I had haulage by them and was always pleased when one dropped on the front instead of a ubiquitous Class 86, so would have no problem buying one. But they simply don't fit my modelling interests, which are GWR/SR based (steam and diesel).

 

If I bought one for the display cabinet (why I allow myself some off region models) it would be in early blue with yellow panel, and that's not yet been produced.

[Jon020]

Absolutely so Pete

 

That's why manufacturers can't just work out a list graph of time vs lines travelled and work their way down the list (although I tend to think of the sound of a deltic less like a spitfire and more like earth moving equipment - sorry Jon)

 

Would the previously mentioned well tank have sold as many if it didn't look sweet?

Jim, you've eiether got very smooth sounding earth moving equipment in mind... or you've been listening to the growl of a Gryphon rather than the howl of a Merlin.

However, each to their own

[Waverley West]

Well, as someone modelling Edinburgh Waverley in the 1980s when there was no OHLE of course, I...eerr...bought one. And it will run without OHLE too (I can't see myself ever adding OHLE to Waverley West, at least for the foreseeable future).

 

Despite my best efforts, I couldn't resist it I'm afraid. Lovely model. I hope it sees the start of more high-quality AC electrics too... 87, 90, 91, etc.

 

Cheers,

Dave

[Steven B]

Wrong scale.

 

If it goes into Bach-Far's magic shrinking machine then I'd happily have a BR blue one.

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

[philiprporter]

I bought one and I dont have OHLE and I model in n-gauge!

 

I have to confess that, for the first time in my life, I bought this model simply to display. Why? Well, when I modelled OO gauge I was captivated by the old Triang-Hornby AL1 - my brother had one and the picture in the Triang catalogue looked amazing! I was then continually frustrated by the lack of rtr OO AC electrics - the Hornby class 86 could be worked up to a nice model as could the LIma 87 - but then it was over to kits for classes 81-81 and my attempts were not up to the standard I wanted - so I longed for a rtr class 81-85!! It never happened of course (until now!) and since then I made the switch to n-gauge, but the Bachmann model looks so great I just had to have one - and I will be buying an AL5 when they do it with small yellow warning panels and that is 100% pure nostalgia for me.

 

Having said all that, I own 2 n-gauge class 86's and an n-gauge class 87 and I have no layout to run them on (yet!) but no way would the lack of readily available OHLE prevent me purchasing - when I get round to building the layout I will either make the OHLE myself or buy it if there is a decent ready to plant model available, or use Sommerfeldt masts - but none of this stops me from buying, in the same way that I have bought a couple of n-gauge steam locos - way out of my layouts period, but such beautiful models I couldn't resist - and, particularly for n-gauge, when a model comes out its often a good idea to buy it quick, because it may not be released again for a while - I am thinking Dapol 73 here, or the speed of sales of the Dapol class 26 when it first appeared in BR Blue - gone from the Hattons website very quickly after release.

 

Now, if the shrink ray is applied to the class 81......well, my wallet is in for a real pounding!

[Guest 40-something]

It sure is a fantastic model and I nearly bought one when they came out but I've just no need for one on my steam/diesel themed goods yard!

 

Mind you, I do have a though playing havoc in my head of a small ETD layout. James Makin's Wells Green TMD is a nice layout and its a theme thats under-done at the mo!

[trisonic]

Absolutely so Pete

 

That's why manufacturers can't just work out a list graph of time vs lines travelled and work their way down the list (although I tend to think of the sound of a deltic less like a spitfire and more like earth moving equipment - sorry Jon)

 

Would the previously mentioned well tank have sold as many if it didn't look sweet?

 

Ha! Yes and I didn't buy one of those either!

If Bachmann says if we sell out of 85's by next week then we'll build some of the classes of EMUs that ran on the ER between 1947 and 1985 then I would order six 85's!!!

 

Best, Pete.

[trisonic]

Jim,

By an amazing coincidence I just received June's "Model Rail" and have been sitting on the "john" reading the review with its large photos.

 

Very nice UK model let down, as usual, by bogie details. Unfortunately I've been spoiled recently by getting some of the latest US outline models from both Atlas and Athearn/Horizon - which whilst not 100% perfect have the most incredible bogie detail, i.e. full 3d brake actuaters vs the typical "half-round" of UK. The difference is compelling - especially when compared on a cost basis. I guess that is the difference between a large market and a relatively small one.

 

Still, overall a terrific UK model.

 

Best, Pete.

[kevpeo]

I have bought the TOPS one (85026) even if it 'slightly' pre-dates the Virgin era.

 

But a little 'mix and match' never went amiss.

 

 

Slightly off topic but did a Class 81 visit Southend (LTS) on an excursion towards the end of its working life? So a bit more scope for some 'artistic license'.

 

Not an 81, but 85's worked down to the Eastern on passenger twice. One on an Adex from Carlisle to Shoeburyness. (85 023) And one on a Pathfinder railtour to Walton-le-Naze (85 101). I was lucky enough to be on both! hth, kev.

 

 

edit - to add the loco no's now I've looked them up!

[reevesthecat]

Sorry maybe slightly off topic but is there not usually a Bachmann trade day in july, if there is and someone is attending can someone ask and get the definitive answer- are the AC electrics selling?

cheers

mark

[m1a2lt]

The reason I haven't purchased one as I model early 90s and haven't decided if the price is worth what would basically be for empty stock workings.

 

Expansion by Dapol on their OHLE would be appreciated, however.

[298]

The reason I haven't purchased one as I model early 90s and haven't decided if the price is worth what would basically be for empty stock workings.

 

Expansion by Dapol on their OHLE would be appreciated, however.

 

Early 90's- as in 1990's, or when the 90's were new (and temporarily withdrawn from service for brake defects to be rectified)...? Both would be a good excuse to have one on ECS workings or a last hurrah on a class 1. Even having one as an open day exhibit on the average home diesel depot type layout could be plausable.

 

As for not being popular, they were local to people who have lived in London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow, Coventry, Stoke, Wolverhampton, Dudley and Northampton, that's all of the top 4 and 10 out of the top 25 cities by population, so there should be plenty of interest.

 

And as for me..? I cancelled my Electric Blue one when I recieved a grey LE as it made me realise the modern RTR standard has well and truly eclipsed my other 4mm AC electrics that were built 10-20 years ago (I haven't really done alot of UK modelling in the last decade). I wouldn't say the loco is perfect, but I could live with it's faults which are easily rectifiable, and I think it's brilliant value for money when compared to the older AC's that desperately need replacing.

[BR Blue]

A very good model but class 85s did not run out of Paddington in the late 80s.

Number of diesel locos, dmus etc. in my fleet 100+

Number of steam locos 0

Number of overhead electrics 0

[Ravenser]

- My interests are on the eastern side of the country

- I live in a flat and have no space for a main line layout

- My main layout is a small non-electrified terminus, and it wouldn't suit the boxfile or a layout based on Croydon Tramlink either

 

I've just bought a Hornby L1 because I saw one marked down to £70 in a shop, it's allocated to a local shed, and I posted in the LNER Consensus thread where there was a sort of understanding that people would try to support what was produced. Also it would suit the little terminus a group I'm involved with talked about building, and as a last expedient it can pretend to be a preserved loco and work a steam special on my little terminus now I have a pair of suitable coaches ( I know none were preserved , but in the parallel universe where the layout happened, one might have been) And it goes with the Bachmann ROD, the unbuilt EM2 kit I got cheap when the local model shop closed down, the Y3, the second hand whitemetal N5 , and the J11 I shall certainly get because 40C Louth had some in the 1950s aslong with N5s and C12s. All of which starts to add up to add up to a coherent GC Section collection, and having travelled extensively on ex GC lines in Lincolnshire, maybe something could happen one day..

 

But an 85 fits with nothing, they don't excite me as a prototype, and since I've recently taken a significant drop in income, can't quite be bothered to go for a bargain Anglia 86 (which I saw, regularly) and have cupboards full of unstarted projects, this is one that I'm definitely sitting out

[Guest jim s-w]

Hi all

 

First up a big thanks to everyone who voted and participated and a special mention for everyone keeping thing polite and civil.

 

What do we make of the results? I might suggest the about 50% not interested in the prototype is quite low. I imagine a large number of members will never have read the topic due to the title.

 

However it's the 10% that would buy but not without OLE being available which is where we started. Do we think that 10% can be considered a significant barrier to OLE models selling?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

 

 

[Downendian]

Good exercise Jim

 

I will not contemplate OHLE because it would immediately scream "youre not on the WR". I did contemplate a short stretch of line (as per Tamworth) passing overhead but don't really have the space. For similar reasons I passed on the recent Southern EMU models, I really would need 3rd rail for these to look authentic, and again with the exception of Reading would say non-WR metals.

 

I liked the older AC electrics and it was always a joy when either a class 81-85 was coupled up front on our Edinburgh excursions rather than a mundane 86 or 87. I bought an 85 just for that reason, but would not consider it for prototypical running my trains for obvious reasons. I'd buy the other AC electrics for the same reason but not in the same numbers as my 47 or peak fleet. Those modelling the LMR in the 1960-1980s periods will have a different perspective, and will buy in multiple.

I hope Bachmann have done well and follow this up shortly with an 81 and/or 83, followed by a LMR EMU to sit alongside them.

 

Neil

[The Stationmaster]

First up a big thanks to everyone who voted and participated and a special mention for everyone keeping thing polite and civil.

What do we make of the results? I might suggest the about 50% not interested in the prototype is quite low. I imagine a large number of members will never have read the topic due to the title.

However it's the 10% that would buy but not without OLE being available which is where we started. Do we think that 10% can be considered a significant barrier to OLE models selling?

Cheers

Jim

I think your conclusion regarding the 50% and non-voters is very logical and probably reflects pretty accurately the state of interest in the prototype. But in some respects that is odd because the AL5 should hit pretty accurately the oft-quoted thing about interest among a certain age group and that age group is the very one which is lapping up all sorts of other things from the late 1950s/early '60s period. Equally the AL5s, and their kin were quite as exciting for those of us who saw them when new as was the B... P.....n so one could presumably expect a similar level of interest?

 

So what is the 'block' (assuming there really is one of course)? Clearly a lot of us have modelling interests which take/keep us well away from the WCML so that is going to be a big reason for not wanting one. The other reason is, I suspect, coupled with that and it is the lack of familiarity with the early a.c. electrics on the part of the d&e fans - I was recently talking to a retailer whose market is largely shop based and who doesn't compete with box-shifters in either price tag or large scale advertising and he said that the slowest seller is the twin-pan AL5 version while the Class 85 is doing quite well. So are us older foogies far too wedded to our existing interests to lash out for an AL5 which would be quite as out of place on our layouts as, say, a Well Tank or Garratt?

 

Or is the answer for WCML modellers to take a note out of the ECML book and get on with some equivalents to the likes of Peterborough, Retford, and Grantham but set on the cusp of the new era?

[reevesthecat]

Hi all

 

First up a big thanks to everyone who voted and participated and a special mention for everyone keeping thing polite and civil.

 

What do we make of the results? I might suggest the about 50% not interested in the prototype is quite low. I imagine a large number of members will never have read the topic due to the title.

 

However it's the 10% that would buy but not without OLE being available which is where we started. Do we think that 10% can be considered a significant barrier to OLE models selling?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

 

Could this be turned on it's head and the manufacterers say why produce OHLE if only 10% of modellers say they need it!! Just a thought!

mark

[Gwiwer]

It may depend on the economics of producing OHLE and whether anyone is prepared to take the financial risk in developing a full range of at least generic kit which might suit a respectable number of modellers. OHLE varies from line to line but so does track and other essential infrastructure. Yet we are mostly prepared to buy bog-standard Code 100 or Code 75 no matter where or when we model (with an honourable mention to those who do scratch-build) and we might find the same with OHLE.

 

Peco offers RtP SR-style conductor rail and fittings. Lineside buildings for third-rail areas and even RtP stations have been available recently. Mile-for-mile the SR third rail system is huge yet relatively few model it. Peco, however, manage to offer their conductor rail continuously (as opposed to having to wait for a new production run) despite the uptake being apparently rather poor.

[Guest jim s-w]

It could indeed Mark. Very much so.

 

There are those who will go without, some will use the Dapol stuff (although it's really for the ECML not the WCML so it's kinda like running your 85 with gresley teak coaches) and some will build their own.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[BlackRat]

There are those who will go without, some will use the Dapol stuff (although it's really for the ECML not the WCML so it's kinda like running your 85 with gresley teak coaches) and some will build their own.

 

Which just about sums the hobby and everyone in it up, in one easy sentence!

[James90012]

If the RfD 85101 was available to the mass market (same prices) then I'd have one - BR blue is too plain for a modern day railway - I currently have 2 HJ 86s so the OHLE isn't really an issue for me.