Heljan AC Cars Railbus - Decorated Sample

[Intercity125]

I've just seen an update on the Heljan dk website, posted yesterday, re the AC Cars Railbus release date. Unfortunately the photos aren't displaying but the page title says: ' November 2013 is the Class 88 coming'.

 

So I think from that we can infer that the release has been delayed again until November, however it is a more likely date to be achieved, as Heljan don't advertise releases themselves until they are certain of delivery times

Thanks for the update.  It's interesting to note that delivery dates and production/supply issues don't just affect Hornby.  It would be good to understand what's behind it and what the manufacturers are doing to ensure that they have product to sell to an eager market in the UK

[Intercity125]

Just had the same (November 2013) from Hattons by e-mail. So now it's slipping sixty days per month!! 

 

Tony

Blimey.  Sounds pretty bad.  At this rate we'll be waiting a long time   

[ncornwall]

Blimey.  Sounds pretty bad.  At this rate we'll be waiting a long time   

 

New notification today from Hattons  - outlook now Dec 2013/Jan 2014. Another month, another 30-60 days slippage....

 

Tony

[Intercity125]

New notification today from Hattons  - outlook now Dec 2013/Jan 2014. Another month, another 30-60 days slippage....

 

Tony

Thanks Tony for the update.

 

If I recall correctly, this was originally due to be released in September/October 2012 and has slipped by over a year with a further 3 months of delay now expected.  What surprises me is that they were advertised in the model press in a full page advert with a Q2 2013 release date.  I'd like to know why ALL the manufacturers are suffering delays to product releases - even Bachmann, and they own their own manufacturing facilities!!! 

[dibber25]

Thanks Tony for the update.

 

If I recall correctly, this was originally due to be released in September/October 2012 and has slipped by over a year with a further 3 months of delay now expected.  What surprises me is that they were advertised in the model press in a full page advert with a Q2 2013 release date.  I'd like to know why ALL the manufacturers are suffering delays to product releases - even Bachmann, and they own their own manufacturing facilities!!! 

Some of the contributory factors - not necessarily all or any of them relating specifically to Heljan, but you asked about ALL manufacturers:

Loss of manufacturing capacity due to failure of a major manufacturing company.

Loss of labour due to changes in the location of factories away from Hong Kong and into the regions, where new factories have been built, tempting staff who have lived in Hong Kong dormitories to return to their homes. 

Those new factories 'in the sticks' making high-volume items with good margins - ie not model railways.

Lack of any incentive to manufacture low volume, low margin items which require complex assembly, good mechanical performance and superb quality finishing (i.e. model railway equipment)

The time taken to train new staff to do the job well enough to satisfy a very discerning end customer.

A pragmatic approach, in some quarters, to these difficulties by adopting such things as moulded handrails. These changes, unfortunately, are seen as retrograde by the customer, who then refuses to pre-order until he's seen the actual model, which leads to a lack of pre-orders, which leads the manufacturer to be reluctant to place large orders and to be inclined to wait for demand to pick up, thereby creating a vicious circle. The model suffers delay and when it appears, if the customers are happy with it, there aren't enough to supply the demand. If the customers aren't happy with it, the model sits on the shelves unsold and the manufacturer is then even more cautious about ordering the next item, and hey presto, there's another vicious circle.

Solving these problems is the conundrum that all the manufacturers are facing - not just in the UK but across Europe and North America, too.

One of our North American friends - a significant, if not major, manufacturer, is to lecture on the subject next week. I await his comments with interest but expect to hear most of the above.

CHRIS LEIGH

[brushman47544]

A pragmatic approach, in some quarters, to these difficulties by adopting such things as moulded handrails. These changes, unfortunately, are seen as retrograde by the customer, who then refuses to pre-order until he's seen the actual model, which leads to a lack of pre-orders, which leads the manufacturer to be reluctant to place large orders and to wait for demand to pick up, thereby creating a vicious circle. The model suffers delay and when it appears, if the customers are happy with it, there aren't enough to supply the demand. If the customers aren't happy with it, the model sits on the shelves unsold and the manufacturer is then more cautious about ordering the next item, and hey presto, there's another vicious circle.

 

Interesting Chris, and something on which I think most of us unfortunately would have to agree.

 

But there is to me a solution to breaking these vicious circles and that is by the manufacturer stating at an early stage of production exactly what items will be moulded and what will not, and being consistent across the brand (or brands in the case of Hornby (Railroad or standard)), so whether we like it or not we know in advance and can have more confidence in pre-ordering once again.

[dibber25]

Interesting Chris, and something on which I think most of us unfortunately would have to agree.

 

But there is to me a solution to breaking these vicious circles and that is by the manufacturer stating at an early stage of production exactly what items will be moulded and what will not, and being consistent across the brand (or brands in the case of Hornby (Railroad or standard)), so whether we like it or not we know in advance and can have more confidence in pre-ordering once again.

I have no inside information. I make that point very clearly. However, I suspect that exactly what parts are treated in which way may depend on the factory and the individual designer or toolmaker doing the job. 

Yes, we have to get back people's confidence in pre-ordering. At least one manufacturer (not in the UK) is now only producing models in quantities to match pre-orders. That, I believe is the way that UK manufacturers - certainly the smaller ones such as the Heljan UK range, will be forced to go in the next few years.

CHRIS LEIGH

[brushman47544]

I have no inside information. I make that point very clearly. However, I suspect that exactly what parts are treated in which way may depend on the factory and the individual designer or toolmaker doing the job. 

 

I tend to agree with you, but unfortunately that's precisely what many modellers probably don't want to hear.

 

Yes, we have to get back people's confidence in pre-ordering. At least one manufacturer (not in the UK) is now only producing models in quantities to match pre-orders. That, I believe is the way that UK manufacturers - certainly the smaller ones such as the Heljan UK range, will be forced to go in the next few years.

 

In which case, I certainly hope that the manufacturers offer a decent range of liveries including the most popular ones from the outset. LS Models is a very good example in that regard. For UK outline, there have been plenty of models in the last few years from Bachmann and Hornby in particular (and mostly diesels and electrics) where the initial releases have been in liveries that I do not want so I have waited. And in some cases am still waiting... If a minimum numbers of models will need to have been pre-ordered before production, livery choices (including both with and without SYP for example) become rather more important.

[dibber25]

I tend to agree with you, but unfortunately that's precisely what many modellers probably don't want to hear.

 

 

In which case, I certainly hope that the manufacturers offer a decent range of liveries including the most popular ones from the outset. LS Models is a very good example in that regard. For UK outline, there have been plenty of models in the last few years from Bachmann and Hornby in particular (and mostly diesels and electrics) where the initial releases have been in liveries that I do not want so I have waited. And in some cases am still waiting... If a minimum numbers of models will need to have been pre-ordered before production, livery choices (including both with and without SYP for example) become rather more important.

Usually, livery choices involve taking a stab at what one thinks will be the most popular, so that an initial batch of models is cleared quickly. If it goes well enough one can then do a second batch repeating any over-subscribed liveries (with a different number) and spinning out the quantity with the (perceived) next-most-popular liveries. Take a look at the advance ad for Rapido's GMD-1 (now all pre-sold, I believe) and there's a good choice of livery/period plus un-numbered examples. No reason why this couldn't be done with UK outline models BUT there is inevitably a price premium on this sort of production. However, if it's the choice of that or nothing, what will modellers choose?

CHRIS LEIGH

[Matt]

I'm so concerned about future supplies that I've bought 20 times the number of locos I need and similar levels of stock to go with them. That's my rationale at least...

[Intercity125]

Some of the contributory factors - not necessarily all or any of them relating specifically to Heljan, but you asked about ALL manufacturers:

Loss of manufacturing capacity due to failure of a major manufacturing company.

Loss of labour due to changes in the location of factories away from Hong Kong and into the regions, where new factories have been built, tempting staff who have lived in Hong Kong dormitories to return to their homes. 

Those new factories 'in the sticks' making high-volume items with good margins - ie not model railways.

Lack of any incentive to manufacture low volume, low margin items which require complex assembly, good mechanical performance and superb quality finishing (i.e. model railway equipment)

The time taken to train new staff to do the job well enough to satisfy a very discerning end customer.

A pragmatic approach, in some quarters, to these difficulties by adopting such things as moulded handrails. These changes, unfortunately, are seen as retrograde by the customer, who then refuses to pre-order until he's seen the actual model, which leads to a lack of pre-orders, which leads the manufacturer to be reluctant to place large orders and to be inclined to wait for demand to pick up, thereby creating a vicious circle. The model suffers delay and when it appears, if the customers are happy with it, there aren't enough to supply the demand. If the customers aren't happy with it, the model sits on the shelves unsold and the manufacturer is then even more cautious about ordering the next item, and hey presto, there's another vicious circle.

Solving these problems is the conundrum that all the manufacturers are facing - not just in the UK but across Europe and North America, too.

One of our North American friends - a significant, if not major, manufacturer, is to lecture on the subject next week. I await his comments with interest but expect to hear most of the above.

CHRIS LEIGH

Thanks Chris for explaining some of the difficulties facing all the main manufacturers.  It seems that these supply chain problems could be long term and it will be interesting to see what your North American  friend's thoughts are on solving them.  Despite the recent recession, it does appear that the demand from the UK market is still strong, but I take your point about the lack of pre-ordering.  I for one read the reviews in Model Rail which identify the strengths and weaknesses and provide an unbiased critical appraisal before I commit to purchasing one.  I might make an exception for  specialist/limited run models such as the Kernow O2 tank as there is a need for the customer to show commitment and help the retailer/manufacturer proceed with getting the model produced.

[ncornwall]

Modelfair Newsletter says they've "been told that [the AC Cars railbus] won't now appear until early 2014".

 

Which, being interpreted, probably means June...

 

Tony

[petee19]

Could the Railcar be on its way?,I have had a request to update my card details against this order.

[40F]

W79975 arrived in the South West today

[Godfrey Glyn]

I gather it has also arrived at Alton, having just been rung by Bob.

Godfrey

[Dava]

Tower Models are now saying the O Gauge version will be delayed until September 2014!

 

Why?? Lots of people have ordered one.

 

Class 40 will be first, Heljan are apparently selling out on advance orders

 

Dava

[BRIAN T]

It has arrived at Lord and Butlers in Cardiff ........a lovely model,a very heavy solid model that runs very well and the glazing with curved cab windows is exquisite

[dibber25]

What is the earliest colour the light green or dark?

All four WR examples (and probably Sc79979 as well) were delivered in light green in 1958. They were delivered in reverse order, Sc79979 being the first - indeed the first railbus of any sort to be delivered - and a couple of the WR examples were delayed by a fire at the factory on Taggs Island where the bodies were built. I found no evidence on W79976 to suggest that it had EVER carried any colour other than light green until repainted (in a similiar shade, at the Yieldingtree Museum after withdrawal from BR). It still has the original paint in quite good condition on the inside of the door frame - perfect for matching if anyone should want it. My personal view (not reflected by people at the Colne Valley some years ago I hasten to add and probably not by Heljan as they took their info from the CVR) was that the 'dark green' - which was not the usual DMU dark green - was a figment of the photographic emulsions of the day and did not actually exist. It MAY have been a quick brush-over by the Scottish Region, of course. Only No. W79979 received what modellers would recognise as dark DMU green, in early 1964, as a result of collision damage at Swindon. It had yellow panels in place of whiskers from that repaint. Why would BR have repainted in dark green and retained the whiskers on the other cars? I have recently seen photographic evidence that W79976 was withdrawn at Ayr depot still carrying its W79976 numbers, so that means that Scottish modellers can run the 'W' prefixed models with impunity. (It is a mistake made frequently by enthusiasts to think that BR was as obsessed with prefixes and numbers as we are. Numbers, maybe, but prefixes were not considered significant nor, indeed was regional ownership. The same site on which I saw the pic of W79976 at Ayr has 1664 at Tetbury with the two-coach branch train formed of a Gresley coach and a Stanier!

I'm sure I'll be doing a railbus article in Model Rail as soon as the models arrive. There's lots to say - they had an interesting story.

CHRIS LEIGH

[BR(S)]

SC79979: http://thedownmain.tripod.com/d79979.html

[BR(S)]

Seen on Facebook,Hornby magazine has a sample for review.

 

Picture of model here: http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/35490/8800_Heljan_AC_Cars_Railbus_number_W79975

[stewartingram]

Now we have this one in the bag, what is left to come from the Heljan railbus announcements?

 

Stewart

[BR(S)]

Now we have this one in the bag, what is left to come from the Heljan railbus announcements?

 

Stewart

 

In OO, I think it's just the Park Royal.  In O, there's the AC Cars, but I'm not sure about anything else.

[Oldddudders]

In OO, I think it's just the Park Royal.  In O, there's the AC Cars, but I'm not sure about anything else.

Perhaps there are other 4mm variants on the Gloucester Parcel Car to come?

[Bilbo]

I thought that in the original announcement a Wickham was mentioned. It hasn't been mentioned much since though.

[ThePipersSon]

I seem to recall that Heljan mentioned all 5 types in the original announcement (many years ago at Warley).  With the W&M model out, and the AC on the way (I've yet to see mine), that just leaves the Park Royal, Wickham and the Bristol types.  At the current rate of development. I have serious doubts that I will live to see them all.

 

It could be down to the sales volume, and Heljan is not going to rush about producing models with very little sales potential.