Great West Road - transfers & I’m not talking football!

[southern42]

Hi All.

 

I was thinking about how I will run the layout and decided that post-GWR operation will be 1961 (up to 1965) i.e., BR with touches of preservation which will transform into 2011, 50 years later and, incidentally, the 60th Anniversary year of the Britannia.

 

I have sat all evening (apart from getting up to make the odd cuppa) looking up stock movement on Southall Depot for 2011 to see how feasible the latter might be - and I've still only got half the year covered.

 

Then I came across this little gem on http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2011/notes-and-news-may/

 

West Coast Railway’s Nos. 37518 and 47500 hauled a special train from Southall depot in West London to Waterloo International, formed of steam loco Stirling ‘Single’ No. 1, Class 08 shunters Nos. 08911 and 08927, and various coaches. The vehicles are to be used in a production of ‘The Railway Children’ play, which is returned to Waterloo International for the summer.

 

When looking for photos I came across this superb video.

 

 

Now, that's how to make a video.  The scene?  Now, that is on the wish list. I have WCRC class 37 and class 47 to bring the loco into the depot.  Not sure about the blue 08.  May have to substitute our green and EWS ones.  Having seen the gorgeous 7mm ‘O’ gauge layout, The Railway Children, at its debut outing at Model Rail Live, the possibility of taking advantage of the prototype 'stage' stock quite excites me.  All I need is the star performer.....

 

Meanwhile,  Ray has been putting sound into 33207 Jim Martin and the 37.  Nice man....

 

Polly

[exmoordave]

Hi All,

 

Right, the plot thickens for you Dave...

 

Having chatted with the right person today, he told me that three of the first four GWS members were educated in the local Grammar School at Southall. This was John Barlow, Mike Peart and Angus Davies. Which sounded like bad news was coming but then my friend told me that Graham Perry did indeed attend Southall Secondary Technical School and the timespan you mention should give the required overlap to put you and him at the same school at the same time. However, the only bit that didn't tally was that he didn't think to the best of his recollection that Graham was a keen sports player... He will keep digging for us though!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

Hi Castle

 

Sorry for the delay in coming back to you on your posted info - but very many thanks for your enquiries on my behalf, I am very grateful. 

Just a further snippet of info for you: I first met Graham when we were at the Southall Secondary Technical School, and this school then merged with Southall Grammar School around 1963 I believe. As I think I said before I can only remember him playing footie, both in the playground and for school year team, at outside/inside right. All rather obscure I know, but every little clue might help!!

 

Anyway, apologies again for the delay in coming back to you, but many thanks again.

All the best

exmoordave

[Castle]

Hi Dave,

 

Hopefully I will catch up with John Barlow sometime over the next month or so and I will get it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Andrew P]

Hi Pretty Polly, I have just popped in for a catch up and at one stage I thought you were going to change to O Gauge,

I have sat down again now, hahahaa

 

Keep playing with movements, chuff chuff

 

Bodgit

[southern42]

Hi lady P

you will need deep pockets with all these wants you keep seeing.

Any action on your layout lately?

Just to point out to you there was an old changing shed on the cricket pitch by the AEC sidings it was very run down roof missing etc it backed onto the south sidings just behind the buffers could be worth modelling if you have an inch to spare.

Look out for Whitcombe Barton in the layout section "coming soon"

81C

 

Cricket pitch.  Hmmm.  Stress the Skaledale hut, though if you look at an alternative plan, below, there might be scope for a car park instead - given an extra 4ft. 

 

Hi Pretty Polly, I have just popped in for a catch up and at one stage I thought you were going to change to O Gauge,

I have sat down again now, hahahaa

 

Keep playing with movements, chuff chuff

 

Bodgit

 

O gauge? Oh no no no no  :no:   but if you like movement, read on....

 

Hi all.

i was struggling a bit with the layout in GWR style so decided (just for a break) to try a different tack - 'Operation 2011'.

For this I adapted and shortened the BR layout in Hawkins and Reeves to allow for a 150ft shed.  This will house two locos or loco + support coach.   The advantage of 2011 is: no turntable to fit in and it would extend quite simply if it reached exhibition standard.  Then, with all the dilapidation, there'd be lots of GRASS and stuff, Andy. 

 

The real fun starts here - top left.  Trains enter from the fiddleyard, aka the Mainline, into the north siding (top right) which is long enough for an extra coach or two to be uncoupled and picked up later by a diesel shunter (class 08).

The train moves into the disused platform or siding and waits until the road to the depot is clear.

The way locos face / direction they travel may have to be pre-planned according to documented evidence bearing in mind there's a wye up the road, off scene, for anything the 'wrong' way round!

 

Examples of the type of movement is clear from these two videos.

Arriving at the station from the down line.

Entering the shed.

 

No. 2885 in the factory sidings in 1984 inspired the inclusion of a preservation group in the old Maypole sidings whatever its use is now..

http://www.philt.org.uk/PreservationScene/GWR/18439032_ZqzckS/1619549522_vLJN4DP#!i=1619549522&k=vLJN4DP

 

The branch line will descend down hill as per the prototype but entry to a traverser under the shed would have to be disguised / hidden.  I was thinking factory buildings and walls above the cutting merging into the edge of the depot.

 

This should be easy enough to model and I have enough stock to have a good running session including an introductory 1961 reminiscence but....I still fancy running my GWR locos.

 

Thoughts, anyone?  And please point out any howlers / improvements I could make to the above track plan.

Many thanks.

Polly

Edited May 27, 2013 by southern42

[southern42]

Good morning all.

 

I've just been looking at some more videos of Tangmere at Southall  (I got the links from those above) and it seems that my 'north' siding is on the mainline side and would thus be a 'south' siding - if we're going to be picky.

 

Anyway, there is some really useful footage of the footbridge in this video.

 

And if you like the natural look with lots of greenery and buddleia try this for size!

Reminds me of those 'natural' gardens at the Chelsea Flower Show. 

This video is also useful for modelling the fencing and other lineside features.

 

I'm sorely tempted to go down this route.

So....

GWR/BR(W) with coaling operation and turntable v Romantic Steam Dreams in the wild?

Yet another Shed (nothing wrong with that!) v Something different?

 

Your vote / opinion would be gratefully appreciated.

"You have the power to change lives" lines (heard recently on Britain's Got Talent).  

 

A little aside:  I hope you don't feel I'm overdoing the Tangmere bit.  It's just that these videos just happen to show the depot so well - whatever period I end up modelling. 

 

Polly

 

 

[exmoordave]

Some great footage of Southall & Tangmere there - apart from one thing. The legendary footbridge that played such an important part of my childhood was painted PINK!!!!!! Has the world gone completely mad? Well, obviously it has, but PINK. I mean PINK. 

I must be related to "Disgusted of Tonbridge Wells".  

 

Not PINK..............

 

PINK........??!!

[southern42]

Pink?

I hate PINK. 

If I model it I shall have to call it Faded Red!

My only sensible guess is they only got as far as using some primer (red oxide?).  Save the metal at the expense of our sanity.

I only hope they manage to save the footbridge.  Any further news on this?

 

Polly

Edited May 28, 2013 by southern42

[Castle]

Hi Polly,

 

Why not look at doing the period between 1960 to present day?

 

Also, rewrite history so that the GWS was offered Southall rather than Didcot?

 

This way you can get away with running the GWR liveried stuff you want (the 43XX tender is doing renumbered to No. 5322 perhaps?) , do all of the late BR steam and diesels, DMUs and so on and not have to include the forthcoming catenary system. Visiting main line steam engines and current residents of Southall could be included. Bittern (with two tenders!) Tornado, Royal Scot, Flying Scotsman, Tangmere, and many more have lived or been hosted there and could be justified. The greenery could be part of the scene either way. The Brentford branch could become the GWS' running line. This would give you the excuse to run absolutely whatever you wanted! I was riding a Deltic on Saturday for example!

 

If you extend the running shed to the back scene then you could have the excuse that its much larger than the model and would enable you to keep all sorts of locos in there including the GWS collection and main line residents, with the use of either track extending further out beyond the baseboards or cassettes big enough to hold a pacific and support coach perhaps?

 

If things had been slightly different then it might of happened - the twists of fate in preservation are very small and these small twists have a big end result.

 

A few thoughts for the pot anyway...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[southern42]

Very interesting proposition, Castle.  Tahnks.  [Edit. Thanks.  That looks better!]

 

1466 could be gate guardian like the spitfire at the entrance to the RAF base in Uxbridge (until 2010).

 

I had thought of combining BR(W) with the preservationists alongside - I like the idea of continuing it on - maybe it wouldn't be quite such a wilderness - there was a degree of vegetation in the 60s, anyway, and rotting iron...

 

What I liked, initially, about Southall was the architecture of the coal stage and the arched ramp (as at Old Oak Common).  Unfortunately, all that remains is the water tower.  And I also notice that even the later shed is not what it used to be....but I like the idea of running the GWR on-shed routine.  We'll see.

 

Polly

Disappearing to do tea....

Edited May 30, 2013 by southern42

[southern42]

Still on the preservation theme for 2011, here's one for those amongst us who'd rather see something from up 'norf'.  

[Edit: Warning.  It doesn't actually go anywhere unlike 'Bittern' in the link below but there are a few interesting features if you are prepared to watch long enough!]

 

 

I found it after reading this, earlier.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72309-bitterns-90mph-test-run/&do=findComment&comment=1055385

 

Some more track plans later....

 

Polly

Edited May 30, 2013 by southern42

[Physicsman]

Looking forward to the track plans, Polly.

 

See - I told you I'd have a look at GWR today!!   

 

Jeff

 

ps. Guess what I'm doing.....yes, more bl**dy rocks!

[southern42]

Good to see the Lunester Laird onboard as per his word.

Not to worry about rocks though, Jeff.

Ray's put a few more on Camel Quay today, though not as many as you'll need by a long chore.  I'll be painting and adding the green stuff when it's all had time to dry out - after 7 days, apparently.

He's 'saved' me a few to practice on. 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67862-camel-quay-a-north-cornwall-inspired-layout-in-00/page-5&do=findComment&comment=1055359

 

Polly

[Physicsman]

Good to see the Lunester Laird onboard as per his word.

Not to worry about rocks though, Jeff.

Ray's put a few more on Camel Quay today, though not as many as you'll need by a long chore.  I'll be painting and adding the green stuff when it's all had time to dry out - after 7 days, apparently.

He's 'saved' me a few to practice on. 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67862-camel-quay-a-north-cornwall-inspired-layout-in-00/page-5&do=findComment&comment=1055359

 

Polly

 

Just had a look at the Quay. Nicely arranged - those banks should look great when you've painted the rocks and grown the vegetation.

 

How many layouts have you got in your house - you two are getting as bad as Bodgit!!

 

Jeff

[southern42]

Layouts? One.

One in working order, anyway, namely our 4ft x 1ft test track which grew into a shunting layout called 'Avago'.

Camel Quay runs trains but the rest, as you saw, needs some work.  Now that the 'white undercoat' is underway, the impetus is much improved.

Great West Road is a figment of the imagination - where Camel Quay was two years ago.  Unlike Mr Bodgit, we seem to take our time.    

 

Polly

 

Correction  (I've been told reminded)

GWRd not quite a figment of the imagination - I've got 10 of the 12ft of baseboard of which 6ft is up in the bedroom.

And Ray's Seaton which is a figment of his imagination apart from a host of loco kits which keep appearing on the dining table.

Edited May 30, 2013 by southern42

[Castle]

Hi Polly,

 

Nowt wrong wit big blue bird from oop norf! We had a visitation from Bittern at 81E a while back and I can recommend the tea and doughnuts in the support coach - cracking bunch of lads and all the best to them when they let her off the leash again in July! It has lived at Southall so long now it must be well on its way to being an honoury Western engine! It's valves are developed from those in a certain Castle and her visit to the LNER in 1925 you know... The redesigned big end that BR fitted to the centre connecting rod to cure the overheating problems with the bearing has more than a passing resemblance to the ones on a Castle as well (although Swindon developed it from a French design!). Despite the regional preferences, there all great machines to still have around and they are all in some way related!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[southern42]

We saw Dominion of South Africa up here on the North Wales coast last year.  Superb beast.

 

So. Bittern video, 4min 28 secs in.  Do we have a clockwork loco?

Ray thinks it's a well-known manufacturer's prototype for a vintage wind-up 12in to the 1ft model.

 

Can anyone enlighten me as to what's going on here?  My guesses are probably way off.

Polly

[Coppercap]

We saw Dominion of South Africa* up here on the North Wales coast last year.  Superb beast.

 

 

My guesses are probably way off.

 

 

 

 

The NRM currently has Commonweath of Eisenhower and Union of Canada in it's care at the moment. At least, I think that's what they are called............

 

 

 

Yes, indeed!

 

*Union of South Africa

Edited May 30, 2013 by Coppercap

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

John Cameron owns Union of South Africa, Dominion of Canada is visiting the NRM and Bittern (a Jeremy Hoskings machine) has spent some time as Dominion of New Zealand. Dwight D. Eisenhower is the second of the North American visitors.

 

It was much easier when they were named after ducks and loco engineers...

 

If you think these names are confusing, try the Castle class - there were several names that were used on several different engines throughout the years!

 

As for the wind up merchant - he is closing the streamlined casing that goes over the smokebox door. It was known as the cod's mouth by crews!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

Edited May 31, 2013 by Castle

[southern42]

Thanks, Coppercap.  Yes, Union of South Africa.  My mistake.

At Bangor 19 August 2012

 

I had a rail trip down south today and on the way home had a very good view of Tornado in its blue livery on a siding at Crewe.  Very nice. 

 

Thanks, Castle for explaining the wind-up mechanism.  You learn something every day.

 

Polly

 

[ChrisN]

Polly,

Just caught up with your layout.  I can honestly say te planning of mine is taking even longer.  Is it too late to comment on the track plan?

 

I cannot find the exact post but you said that you really wanted to build the coaling stage (?) & you could notdo this with the modern Southall.  I would try and stick with that as that appears to be one of the attractions for you.  Could you do the turntable in the fiddle yard?

 

I really liked your idea of doing 3 eras.  Have you seen Mikkel's idea of lift out scenic bits to be changed for different eras?  You could get your greenery in like that.

 

Not sure this has been a lot of help.  Like the videos, you can never have too many Spamcans, or Brits.  Still, I would try and keep your GWR green locos though.

[southern42]

Never too late to comment, Chris.

 

Thanks for the affirmation for a 3-era layout and change of scenics.  Having two sheds with a removable coal ramp is something I've been thinking about but they will have to be in the same place unlike Southall where the 1950s shed was built behind the earlier one.

 

Yes, I definitely like the arched coal ramp. It would be a pity not to have a go at modelling it.

Lots of things to think about.

Polly

[southern42]

I was just looking at the photo at the link below again and noticed some bikes and a man wearing a hat on the footbridge and another chap taking a photo of the loco (crew). 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/holycorner/8473376198/sizes/l/in/photostream/

 

The track is also quite detailed from a modelling perspective (typical 1960s colouring?), the dip down to the shed is noticeable from the slope on the footpath, and the footbridge is grey (faded black?  Loco paint?).

 

Thoughts, anyone?

 

Polly

 

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

If that fella has a baby in a pram, that could be me!

 

My dad often took me there as a kid!

[ChrisN]

If that fella has a baby in a pram, that could be me!

 

My dad often took me there as a kid!

 

I think that area of the layout is going to be quite full, what with 4 boys on the bridge, a photographer with a pram, a girl running for the train.......  I cannot remember any more but I am sure there were some.

 

All good fun and much better than adding cameos just for the sake of it.

Edited June 6, 2013 by ChrisN