Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)

[FJBarrett]

Hi Frank,

 

Those look very nice - well done.

 

I'm no authority on LNER signals (or any other for that matter).

If what I say is incorrect I'm sure Mick Nicholson will correct me - please.

 

I think you've got the general arrangement of the cranks correct.

I would expect the cranks in line with the main post would share a pivot or bearing.

In the second arrangement, the cranks would be similar, with the pull wires for the centre two arms going direct from weight bar to arm.

 

Here is a short clip of a LNWR signal I made a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HmsrLXvGXc

Although Lower Quad, and therefore using push rods rather than pull wires, the arrangement in very similar.

Pull cranks were usually longer radius than push cranks I believe.

About 9 to 12 inches against about 6 inches, but you should be able to squeeze them in, particularly if you hang the pivot tube below the Trimmer if necessary.

 

Hope this is helpful.

Don't hesitate to ask again if you think I can be of any more help.

 

Steve.

Hi Steve,

 

Many thanks for the reply, that has helped. I think I will need to dig out my close work glasses to fit the cranks!

 

I will post some more photos when I have them done.

 

All the best

 

Frank

[FJBarrett]

Hi Frank, a lot of LNER signals have the cranks mounted above the trimmers on small brackets (no pics as I'm only on phone at the moment) which means the trimmers aren't affected.

HTH

Jon Fitness

Thanks Jon,

 

I think I need to do some more research to see if I can find some photos.

 

Cheers

 

Frank

[Steve Hewitt]

With the moving bits added......

 

Outer Home.

 

 

Advanced Starter

 

 

Video soon.....when I've dealt with the light leaking from the fibres.

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

You're cooking on gas Steve! I just can't keep up mate. Absolutely superb job!

Cheers

JF

[Steve Hewitt]

The Video.....

 

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

The second signal for Keswick........

 

The Home signals for Keswick No 1 Box.

 

This is a standard LMS Tubular Post R.H. Bracket, controlling access to either Platform 1 or 2.

 

It is unusual in as much as the two arms are slotted so that Box 1 and Box 2 have to clear a signal before the arm can move.

Box 1 levers 2 and 3 being slotted with Box 2 levers 1 and 12 respectively.

 

You can just about see this on this diagram.

 

I'll be representing this in a very simplified way on the model.

Each arm will have two weight bars and a drop-off weight, but they will be fixed together and moved by a single servo per arm.

 

Steve.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Steve Hewitt

[beast66606]

The second signal for Keswick........

 

The Home signals for Keswick No 1 Box.

 

This is a standard LMS Tubular Post R.H. Bracket, controlling access to either Platform 1 or 2.

 

 

Platform 1 and 3 Steve - the up platform is not bi-directional, the signal reads either along the down main or "round the back" to platform 3 (I assume the down is platform 1, up platform 2 and the loop platform would be 3 ?)

[Jon Fitness]

Platform 1 and 3 Steve - the up platform is not bi-directional, the signal reads either along the down main or "round the back" to platform 3 (I assume the down is platform 1, up platform 2 and the loop platform would be 3 ?)

Sounds and looks a logical assumption as the slot on Keswick 1's No3 signal is Keswick 2's No12 lever and the starter on the back platform is Keswick 2's No13 lever...if you see where I'm going!

JF

[beast66606]

Sounds and looks a logical assumption as the slot on Keswick 1's No3 signal is Keswick 2's No12 lever and the starter on the back platform is Keswick 2's No13 lever...if you see where I'm going!

JF

 

Indeed - also the absence of any signals at No.2 stopping a train continuing to eternity and beyond (or Cockermouth - whichever is soonest) along the (wrong line) up road.

[Steve Hewitt]

Thanks DAS and Jon.

Always good to have the professionals keeping an eye on things.

Steve.

[The Stationmaster]

Noticing what appear to be some oddities on the diagram at Post 781 I've done a bit of photo delving which suggests various signals are incorrectly shown on that diagram.

 

Signal No.17 at No1 'box was definitely an ordinary straight post stop signal with a standard running line arm in its tubular steel form (which is what I would have expected as it's a passenger line).  No.15 at taht end in its tubular steel form was one of those very neat LMR offset (small bracket arrangement) signals - no doubt for siting reasons.

 

I thus doubt that in later days any of the signals had rings on their arms - even if they'd had them in earlier times.

 

The bigger mystery is Signal No2/3 at No.2 'box although I can only find a rather indistinct picture of it - but that picture suggests that it was straight post structure and not a bracket.  Was No.3 actually a ground signal (or even a semaphore) reading from the siding?

 

Sorry to pose a question but overall I doubt the accuracy of that drawing and where it can be verified by photos it is definitely inaccurate in one respect for at least the tubular steel signal post era.

[Steve Hewitt]

Perhaps these two photos, provided by the layout's owner might help.

 

 

Many thanks to one and all for your observations, comments and questions.

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Keswick Box 1, Bracket signals 2 and 3 - the static bits:

 

 

Almost ready for the Paintshop.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Preparing a batch of arms etc.....

 

My recent builds have used arms made from Mosokits etches.

Rather than make up one or two arms as required, I prefer to make up quite a few in one batch.

 

The etches from Masokits are always very finely produced and the designs carefully thought out.

Here's the "Upper quadrant arms" etch:

 

Each arm has a front and rear which are soldered together to give a very fine Arm.

The holes for the rivets can be filled with 0.4mm wire, but as I'll probably be using Chiltern Transfers rather than paint, I've omitted them.

 

The small folded lip top and bottom comes out very well.

 

The arm pivot is my favourite lace pin.

 

The back blinders are also very fine, being a simple fold-up:

I've opened up the hole for the shaft and inserted a very short length of 0.7mm brass tube (0.5mm id).

This will make fixing much easier later on.

 

The lace pin through the blinder is used as a painting handle.

 

All the arms and blinders have been made up - 21 arms, 22 blinders:

 

And there's not much of the etch left:

 

Painting, transfers and glazing will take a lot longer.  

 

Steve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jon Fitness]

Preparing a batch of arms etc.....

 

My recent builds have used arms made from Mosokits etches.

Rather than make up one or two arms as required, I prefer to make up quite a few in one batch.

 

The etches from Masokits are always very finely produced and the designs carefully thought out.

Here's the "Upper quadrant arms" etch:

RIMG1233.JPG

 

Each arm has a front and rear which are soldered together to give a very fine Arm.

RIMG1236.JPG

The holes for the rivets can be filled with 0.4mm wire, but as I'll probably be using Chiltern Transfers rather than paint, I've omitted them.

 

RIMG1237.JPG

The small folded lip top and bottom comes out very well.

 

The arm pivot is my favourite lace pin.

 

The back blinders are also very fine, being a simple fold-up:

RIMG1235.JPG

I've opened up the hole for the shaft and inserted a very short length of 0.7mm brass tube (0.5mm id).

This will make fixing much easier later on.

 

The lace pin through the blinder is used as a painting handle.

 

All the arms and blinders have been made up - 21 arms, 22 blinders:

RIMG1231.JPG

 

And there's not much of the etch left:

RIMG1232.JPG

 

Painting, transfers and glazing will take a lot longer.  

 

Steve.

Although they represent only the early pattern spectacle plate, it's another etch I'd like in 7mm scale *sigh*....

 

JF

Edited April 8, 2017 by Jon Fitness

[beast66606]

The bigger mystery is Signal No2/3 at No.2 'box although I can only find a rather indistinct picture of it - but that picture suggests that it was straight post structure and not a bracket. 

 

 

I've found a distant photo of 2/3 in it's LNWR form and it's a left hand bracket with a ringed arm for the bay

[Steve Hewitt]

And here's an old pic of Box 1's signal 2,3:

 

It seems one end of the station went from Bracket to Single Post plus Ground Signal, whilst the other end went from Single post to Bracket!

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

Lovely Pic Steve! The lower lampman's staging looks a bit low down for the arm, was it for another removed signal or route indicator?

JF

[Steve Hewitt]

Don't know is the true answer.

 

Is there a staging for the upper arm? It looks like there might be one.

If so, any higher lower staging would have caused a few head aches.

 

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

Cant see any useful staging on the signal Steve,  it's ladder access only for both arms. I think you'd need to be about 7ft 6" tall to use that lower staging! It must be from an older/other signal arm or other device previously removed.

JF

[Steve Hewitt]

Keswick Box 1, Bracket signals 2 and 3 - the static bits:

 

RIMG1227.JPG

 

Almost ready for the Paintshop.

 

Steve.

 

Back from the Paintshop.....

 

Halfords rattle can White Primer, with brushed Revell No 9 Black:

 

(The baseplate is L&Y Wagon Grey)

 

With the Fibres in place, threaded through the structure, and the Gaslight LED running on 9v PP3 battery:

 

 

Awaiting the completion of the Arms, which I am batch building at present.....

 

Steve.

[Veen]

I've found a distant photo of 2/3 in it's LNWR form and it's a left hand bracket with a ringed arm for the bay

Sorry, I haven't checked in to RMWeb for a week or two so I missed the chat with regard to the Keswick signals.

I am the "layouts owner" who has requested Steve to produce the signals for me.

 

I am unsure of the date of the the signal diagram attached to Steve's earlier email. However I attach photos from the early 1900's showing signal 2 and 3 controlled from Box 2 as a bracket.

 

With regard to the goods only loop passing along side platform 3 - I can only presume that at one time the points on this loop were not fitted with facing point locks and hence the signaling. This again must have been very early.

 

I can confirm that traffic travelling west to Cockermouth either went down past Platform 1 or 3 and not down the platform 2 road.

[Veen]

Steve,

 

As others have already said Steve, excellent work on the Keswick signals and all others. Look forward to their installation.

[Steve Hewitt]

What's taking so long.........?

 

....just to paint a few signal arms!

 

From this starting point, seen previously:

 

The first step was to spray everything with Halfords White Primer.

Remember to stick them down on a sacrificial board with double sided tape or they end up all over the lawn - done that.  

 

Each arm is now dealt with individually as part of a sub batch of ten:

• Apply Gloss Varnish to both sides of the arm blade and allow to dry.
• Apply Chiltern water slide arm transfer to rear and then front of arm and allow to dry.
• Touch in Red and Yellow colours along edges and end of each arm and allow to dry.
• Paint spectacle plate dull Black, front and rear and allow to dry.
• Touch in Black Chevron over edges of Distant arms and allow to dry.
• Prepare spectacle glazing with Leather Punch and fix to rear of each spectacle with superglue and allow to dry.
• Apply generous film of Gloss Varnish to front of each spectacle "glass" and allow to dry.
• Apply Satin Varnish to front and rear of each arm and allow to dry.

Its all the "Allow to Dry" which takes the time.

 

To speed things up a little, I use a stand made from MDF and Brass Tubes to hold the individual signals during all this drying.  Ten tubes, hence ten arms in a sub-batch:

 

 

The whole is balanced carefully on the little heater which keeps my workshop cosy and this reduces drying time.

Even so, I can't manage more than two steps of the above process in a single day.

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

Ah, batch production, great fun and its always good to have a stock of finished arms for stock. Must admit when I spray arms I have a firework stick with a few holes drilled in it into which the arm axles are pushed. Looks like a a big rather ridiculous multi armed signal which I can hold in a gloved hand whilst spraying.

Cheers

JF