RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted February 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2017 Breaking new ground....... My next two signals are for the Carlisle project. Here are the photos I've been given to build from: The location is "London Road Junction" on the Newcastle - Carlisle line I believe. These will be the first "Plate & Angle" type signals I've built, so Mick Nicholson's book has been my bedtime reading recently. Details as and when I make some progress............ Steve. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) Breaking new ground....... My next two signals are for the Carlisle project. Here are the photos I've been given to build from: 9&8-London road Junction 2.jpg 9&8-London road Junction 3.jpg The location is "London Road Junction" on the Newcastle - Carlisle line I believe. These will be the first "Plate & Angle" type signals I've built, so Mick Nicholson's book has been my bedtime reading recently. Details as and when I make some progress............ Steve. I quite like those "plate&angle" structures. They are quite satisfying to build and as there's no kit for them in 7mm, scratchbuilding is the only way. Mr Nicholson's book is very helpful for these signals and he seems to be the master of P&As!! Do Gibson still do their etched version in 4mm scale? Just looking again at the signal on the right, those arms are a bit close together aren't they? I'm presuming the distant is fixed? JF Edited February 12, 2017 by Jon Fitness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 It is the first time I have seen a home with splitting distant arms. I guess this must be quite rare and quite sets the location. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) I'm presuming the distant is fixed? Probably, I can't see a pull wire for it, but the photo is a bit out of focus when enlarged and all the balance weights are in shadow. However, it doesn't have to be, remember the Distant can never go up with the stop arm down. Regards Edited February 12, 2017 by Grovenor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted February 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2017 The following is the instruction from Mike Edge, the project manager, after my earlier discussions with him about the specifications for these two: "Agreed about the extended bracket signal, this one must be fixed. The other one is a bit strange though, the distant on the main post should be working but what exactly would the other one mean? I presume this was a splitting distant for another junction so this arm could come off with the home signal - we can't use this one though as there are no more junctions from the N&C in the storage sidings. Leave this one non working but not a fixed distant." Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted February 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2017 I quite like those "plate&angle" structures. They are quite satisfying to build and as there's no kit for them in 7mm, scratchbuilding is the only way. Mr Nicholson's book is very helpful for these signals and he seems to be the master of P&As!! Do Gibson still do their etched version in 4mm scale? Just looking again at the signal on the right, those arms are a bit close together aren't they? I'm presuming the distant is fixed? JF Hi Jon, Yes, Alan Gibson do a 4mm version of both the post, and a bracket signal with the post in it, I believe. Guess what I'll be using. Yes, I reckon about 3ft 6in spacing those arms. Steve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 It is the first time I have seen a home with splitting distant arms. I guess this must be quite rare and quite sets the location. Bit like my avatar!... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2017 The signals look to me to be of Eastern Region design I can see at least one slot weight so I would say both distants were workable - from Petteril Bridge Junction - on the model this could be controlled by a switch - for example - on for Newcastle, off for the S&C Suzie - splitting distants were not uncommon in semaphore days, used when both routes had a limit of at least 40mph - and sometimes when they didn't ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I can see at least one slot weight so I would say both distants were workable The one considered as probably fixed is the one on the goods line, not either of the splitters. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 The following is the instruction from Mike Edge, the project manager, after my earlier discussions with him about the specifications for these two: "Agreed about the extended bracket signal, this one must be fixed. The other one is a bit strange though, the distant on the main post should be working but what exactly would the other one mean? I presume this was a splitting distant for another junction so this arm could come off with the home signal - we can't use this one though as there are no more junctions from the N&C in the storage sidings. Leave this one non working but not a fixed distant." Steve Surely if that is London Rd departing toward Newcastle then the right hand junction ahead is for Midland trains heading for Settle, so the RH distant should be pulled off for such Midland trains even if they are just going into Storage sidings. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Tall doll distant for Newcastle, short doll for Settle I guess. RCH map shows it as North Eastern, so I guess that explains the Eastern-ness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2017 Surely if that is London Rd departing toward Newcastle then the right hand junction ahead is for Midland trains heading for Settle, so the RH distant should be pulled off for such Midland trains even if they are just going into Storage sidings. Regards Yes but since all routes (including the WCML) converge in the storage yard there isn't any way for a Newcastle train to be distinguished from a Leeds one. I'm trying to make this system as automatic as I can and most of the signals are controlled through the route setting. At this end of the layout the distants will indicate whether the junctions into the storage yard are set for that route, quite important here as the main junction can be set from a number of different panels and the main line trains are usually being driven from nearly half way down the room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2017 Yes but since all routes (including the WCML) converge in the storage yard there isn't any way for a Newcastle train to be distinguished from a Leeds one. I'm trying to make this system as automatic as I can and most of the signals are controlled through the route setting. At this end of the layout the distants will indicate whether the junctions into the storage yard are set for that route, quite important here as the main junction can be set from a number of different panels and the main line trains are usually being driven from nearly half way down the room. Can you make the main distant clear for some routes and the splitter for the others ? - I use that method to control flashing aspects on Widnes, if a particular storage road is selected the main signals can flash if they are cleared. The one considered as probably fixed is the one on the goods line, not either of the splitters. Regards I never assume anything about signalling without evidence of some form, we can't see any relevant detail of the actual signal and we don't have a diagram so we can't say if the distant is fixed, works only for the main (NER) line or works for both routes - all are equally possible. I'd make the model arm workable but not wired in until evidence either way comes to light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2017 Can you make the main distant clear for some routes and the splitter for the others ? - I use that method to control flashing aspects on Widnes, if a particular storage road is selected the main signals can flash if they are cleared. All routes converge and then fan out into the storage roads so no. The only way I could do it would be to have two separate switches, one for Newcastle and one for Leeds - I'll have to think about this but we might well need that distant arm working after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Dont know if this shot is any use. https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=1331 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted February 13, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2017 Dont know if this shot is any use. https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=1331 Its certainly of use to me Michael. I'll wait for Mike Edge to confirm which arms are to be working, or just "cosmetic" or "Fixed". (We thought we'd had before I posted those photos ) Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmund Kinder Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Hi Steve Don't know if this helps but this is the signalling diagram from Peterill Bridge Junction and it seems as though the signals in question are at the far left of the diagram. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Both are "Worked" Distants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Both are "Worked" Distants. Both of 3? Nos 10 and 11 are worked but its the third one that was suspected of being fixed, and it has no number so it seems the suspicion was correct. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2017 Both of 3? Nos 10 and 11 are worked but its the third one that was suspected of being fixed, and it has no number so it seems the suspicion was correct. Regards But until we had the diagram we didn't know - and it's best not to guess. Equally there isn't a list of spares so even with that diagram as drawn it's not 100%. Additionally lever 10 could also work the distant on the goods - it's not marked as fixed so the jury is still out. If the diagram is from the Swift collection then it should be taken with a small pinch of salt, they contain numerous mistakes unfortunately - for example the slot 37 is shown on a single lead and it's obvious from the photos that this was double and would almost certainly be drawn as such given the sidings are drawn and these aren't on the running lines. However we digress, back to Steves excellent modelling - we've given Mike Edge the information and he can decide how he wants Steve to model it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmund Kinder Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 But until we had the diagram we didn't know - and it's best not to guess. Equally there isn't a list of spares so even with that diagram as drawn it's not 100%. Additionally lever 10 could also work the distant on the goods - it's not marked as fixed so the jury is still out. If the diagram is from the Swift collection then it should be taken with a small pinch of salt, they contain numerous mistakes unfortunately - for example the slot 37 is shown on a single lead and it's obvious from the photos that this was double and would almost certainly be drawn as such given the sidings are drawn and these aren't on the running lines. However we digress, back to Steves excellent modelling - we've given Mike Edge the information and he can decide how he wants Steve to model it. Hi Just to add a little more information on the diagram. I scanned it from a book called "Stations and Structures of the Settle Carlisle" by VR Anderson & G K Fox. On the page that has the diagram it reads "Signalling diagram based on information for 1973". So I'm guessing this was the diagram in its final form just before closure of Petterill Bridge Junction box. Best Wishes Edmund Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted February 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2017 Hi Steve Don't know if this helps but this is the signalling diagram from Peterill Bridge Junction and it seems as though the signals in question are at the far left of the diagram. This is the next signalbox along the line. I had a look on the srs website, and this seems to be more appropriate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Both of 3? Nos 10 and 11 are worked but its the third one that was suspected of being fixed, and it has no number so it seems the suspicion was correct. Regards I was ref to 10 and 11, the signal diagram appered while I was writeing my reply. The righthand bracket is of interest, the firts time I have senn a "Upside Down P&A Bracket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2017 This is the next signalbox along the line. I had a look on the srs website, and this seems to be more appropriate. Yes - the box which works the distants we are discussing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted February 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2017 Ah, yes. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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