'CHARD Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 MATE! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eetype3 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 The ex-Britbus Fleetline looks the business - especially as it's on Route 12, which was "my" route; Corporation Row to Bartley Green/Kitwell - the desti's were "BARTLEY GREEN VIA HARBORNE" outbound, and "CITY CENTRE VIA HARBORNE" inbound (Subsequently renumbered 22, but I don't remember when). The stance looks spot-on to me. Pure nostalgia B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Thanks Jim By '86 the 12 was my route - Brum to Yardley wood via the Stratford road and Slade lane. That lasted right up until this year when it was changed to (I think) the 3a. I could really do with a 1987 timetable so I can see what buses stopped where - Up until now I have been restricted to finding pics of buses on the roads I am modelling. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Hey, Jim, your layout transport's turned up http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230448965741&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1641wt_911 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Cool! But its a Bristol one - I know Phil wanted one of those! Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eetype3 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Confessions time I'm now a bus homologation/certification engineer by trade, working for a certain UK bus builder with plants in Guildford, Falkirk and Scarborough... I spend my days making sure that buses are legal. Certificate of Initial Fitness (CoIF) is currently my bread'n'butter. There's a legal requirement (extant since God's dog was a pup) for each bus to display its owner's company name and address and its unladen mass in a conspicuous external position. These must be applied in characters no less than 1" high. TWM and most others choose to apply it just behind the nearside front wheelarch on the skirt panel at exactly 1" high; ISTR that on West Midlands Travel 'rebranded' ex-WMPTE buses, the original 'gold outlined in black' WMPTE legal lettering was used for the new name and address, and the tare mass remained unaltered. The fuel cut-off switch also must be labelled - I have to confess that I remember it being labelled on the Fleetlines and it being quite noticeable on the bustle, but I can't remember the colour, precise location or format! I'd advise a note of caution with this bus stuff; until I joined the industry a couple of years ago, buses didn't register on my radar unless they made nice noises (come back Leyland Olympian, all is forgiven! Also, where did all the Gardner-powered Mk2 Nashies go?). Now, Bristol VRs, Ailsa Volvos and Scania Metropolitan deckers make me go weak at the knees. Save yourselves while there's still time; I was once like you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hi All Aside from fitting a driver the ERF B series is now done. Also took some more pictures while I was outside. There is more on my site for those interested click here Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hi All Got the fleetlines finished externally too Again more new bus pictures on my site click here Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eetype3 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Fine work, Jim B) That B-Series tractor looks the business! It needs a Class IV mirror on the driver's side though (mounted below the main Class II mirror on the same arm; by the late '80s, the Class IV "wide-angle" mirror was mandatory). Most operators had also fitted an "idiot mirror" (kerbfinder mirror, mounted horizontally above the window on the passenger door) by the late '80s. If I was to give in to my usual pedantry (like I have a choice...it's inbuilt ), the Seddon Atkinson daycab tractor unit could do with a bit more "fifth-wheel lead". Translating, I think the fifth-wheel coupling is a bit too far back on the chassis; "fifth-wheel lead" is the distance between the rear axle centreline and the nominal centreline of the trailer kingpin. As it is, it looks like the kingpin is either coincident with the tractor's rear axle centreline, or is slightly behind it. A negative fifth-wheel lead is illegal in UK Construction & Use legislation. Coincident kingpin/rear axle centreline means that all the trailer's imposed kingpin mass bears directly on the tractor rear axle; from my Foden experience, the only time that's desirable is if a crane is mounted behind the cab and hence the front axle is at or near its maximum authorised mass even before a trailer is coupled; the tractor front axle being able to bear some of the imposed kingpin load also maximises the flexibility of the tractor unit to be able to cope with a variety of trailers with different imposed kingpin loads. The greater the fifth-wheel lead, the more manoeuvrable the combination will be in tight spaces, hence the fifth-wheel lead is usually positive, and as positive as it can be without overloading the front axle. I'd suggest repositioning the fifth-wheel coupling such that the trailer bulkhead is approximately coincident with the rearmost fuel-tank retaining strap in the straight-ahead condition; that will still allow for trailer neck swing without overstretching the suzies or clouting the cab, but will balance the trailer's kingpin load between both axles of the tractor. Bl**dy automotive engineers; never off-duty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Jim Thanks very much for turning an idle thought of mine into reality. I had considered trying to recreate a West Mids fleetline in this way (the chop rather than the Paragon kit). As usual, you get the job done while others like me sit around just thinking about it - you really are a star bloke Jim. Verdict I think the conversion carries a greater presence than the Paragon kit I'm sad to say, but there are two issues I feel which need addressing. The most important is above the front windscreen area. I think you need to take the windscreens out, then pad and fill an area about 2-3mm down from the present windscreen perimeter to reduce the height of the screens. After some considerable wet and dry shaping I think you could more realistically recreate the West Mids front. The other would take a little more bottle, but I'm sure you could do it. You need to take a hacksaw blade to the body and make a horizontal cut from front to back through the lower deck window and bodyside pillars, then stick it all back to together, fill,wet & dry, prime and paint and I reckon you'd have a corker. I just think the casting is a little too high for the West Mids fleetlines, but IMHO certainly looks subtley better than the kit. The upper deck looks right, but the lower deck is not quite right. The comparison with the Paragon kit is interesting, and I certainly don't like the shape of the Paragon engine bustle. Great stuff Jim and hope you see this as positive rather than negative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 thanks for the thoughts chaps. Jim - I know that the really tight cab to trailer fit is a modern thing but I did think that the gap was massive on the model - I'll have a look as at the moment the fifth wheel is directly above the axle. Phil Great minds regarding the front. I recon a peice of 80thou strip should do the trick. I think I can file it to shape then spray it and retro fit. Having measured the windows they are 1mm too tall. I think a hacksaw would take too much material out TBH so I am going to leave the windows as is. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I'm glad that none of your buses & HGV's have to go for a ministry inspection as they would fail one crucial thing is missing on all of them? Has anyone else noticed? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Is it the tax disk (already on some) and the other disk above it Pete? If its not I need to do them anyway - plus garage sticker on the buses Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hmmmm. Take a look at this pic - two distinctly different front bottoms, if you pardon the phrase. Check out the lower bodyside and front skirt ahead of the front arch. 6792 and 6794 markedly contrasting http://www.flickr.co...N03/4469648766/ OMG!!! Check this out! http://www.flickr.com/photos/10479482@N03/4387167023/in/photostream/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 No Jim far more important than the tax disc. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hi All Got the fleetlines finished externally too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hi Phil Hows this? Sure its a retro fit but these 2 are prototypes at the end of the day - I will be able to blend it in more on the rest of the fleet. Pete - Is it mud flaps perhaps? The britbus models have them moulded on to the chassis but the dont extend down much, Need a bit of black paper Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kryten65 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 i'm going for they are missing wipers! and as i spent agood half an hour in the yard try to shorten the distance between tractor and trailer in the yard at work today.. i'd say that atki needs the 5th wheel moving about 4-5mm'ish forward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I thought that but Pete said it was missing on all of them and... Having said that I do need to get some fitted Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hi Phil Hows this? Sure its a retro fit but these 2 are prototypes at the end of the day - I will be able to blend it in more on the rest of the fleet. Pete - Is it mud flaps perhaps? The britbus models have them moulded on to the chassis but the dont extend down much, Need a bit of black paper Cheers Jim You are getting there Jim, but I'd go about another 1.5mm - 2mm to be honest. Don't forget (IMHO) that you are having to compensate for slightly too tall lower deck windows and windscreens to makeit look right. Hope you don't mind but I've used my very meagre photoshop skills to alter your piccie and hope it uploads ok into this thread. I didn't add the black window rubbers to the top of the windscreens but hope you get the general impression. Once again, you are about 97% there in practical terms and have certainly demonstrated to me, the way to go for Brummie fleetlines and VRs. Will you be making your etchings available Jim ? Those cab side windows look great and I guess the opening lights above the front windows are an etch too ? I realise these are your prototypes and I know which I'd be going with. Well done mate you are doing great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 PS Jim. One other thing which I'm sure you'll have spotted. reddy maroon coloured seats and pale blue formica type wallcovering !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hi Phil The top of the windscreen is recessed a fair bit behind the front and has a secondary lip. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hi Phil The top of the windscreen is recessed a fair bit behind the front and has a secondary lip. Cheers Jim Yeah, but the recess above the front screens tend to line up with the rain strip above the cab side window. The way I've altered your pic would need to bring the top of the screens just below that height, but set back on a slight slope. It is a bit difficult to recreate but I imagine your piece of square bar sanded in, would do the job pretty well. Another factor I've realised, which might make the bus look a little high are the wheels. The fleetlines appear to sit quite low on the wheels. Do you reckon you could lower the body onto the axles by a mil [innit mate - in da dragsta stylee]. That might make a difference too, but overall you have made my mind up. Thanks once again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hi Phil. The bottom of the front lines uup wit the rainstrip and the top of the door. The window lines up with the side window. If you look back a page the original britbus model sat lower in it's wheels and definitely looked wrong Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Will you be making your etchings available Jim ? Those cab side windows look great and I guess the opening lights above the front windows are an etch too ? I realise these are your prototypes and I know which I'd be going with. They are an etch Phil and yes I will make them available should people want them. I will look at an etch for the windscreen surround while I am at it (theres a few tweaks from the test etch to do anyway. Havent forgotten the red seats - Gotta do the sideways seats above the back wheel too. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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