Scottish Locomotives

[Mad McCann]

Steve, every time you pop up, you blow us away with something new and amazing.

And now a Jumbo! :-)

 

Cheers!

 

Dave.

[aardvark]

Hello all: my first post on these forums, and I'm hoping you can help with a basic sanity check for this mature-aged Australian just taking up the hobby and planning my first layout.

 

The plan is for a simple/small timesaver layout.  To make things simple but still interesting, the first attempt will probably be Peco OO Setrack and RTR stock.  I'm inclined to theme the layout in the 1930's Scotland.  My wife's family came from Banff, and she has cousins in the Aberdeen/Banchory area, so modelling Scotland might win a few brownie points.  Besides, I like Scotland.

 

My question for this forum is: which RTR loco to use for a shunter?  I'm inclined towards the soon-to-be-released Bachmann LNER J72 (31-060), except that this comes in LNER green, which if I understand correctly was only used for passenger locos, and maybe never in Scotland anyway?  I'm inclined to think that the timesaver would be better as a goods shunting puzzle.  An alternate might be to get the early-BR all-black version, and learn to renumber it (right along with all the other things I have to learn).

 

Any suggestions would be most gratefully received.

Edited October 14, 2015 by aardvark

[andytrains]

Have a look at this link, it gives details of the Scottish J72's.

http://www.elmrc.org.uk/64a/j72.pdf

 

 

Other options of Ready to run shunting locos in Scotland are:-

 

Hornby J83. (Not a very accurate model), 

 

Bachmann Jinty. (Good accurate model, about 8 allocated to Scottish ex-LMS sheds. LMS no's 7536 - 7541 and I think there were others).

 

 

Hornby 0-4-0T Pug loco. These sometimes ran with a small wagon as a coal tender

Edited October 15, 2015 by andytrains

[Londontram]

Steve, every time you pop up, you blow us away with something new and amazing.

And now a Jumbo! :-)

 

Cheers!

 

Dave.

Give us a chance Dave I ain't built it yet - I'm still to busy gluing the blooming Dunalastair back together at the moment after knocking it off the bench the other day. Don't worry though its next on the to do list, I do need to find a source of some 18mm tube for the boiler on the jumbo so any one any idea (I've got plenty of plastic conduit tube but that's 20mm or mine is)

[andytrains]

Give us a chance Dave I ain't built it yet - I'm still to busy gluing the blooming Dunalastair back together at the moment after knocking it off the bench the other day. Don't worry though its next on the to do list, I do need to find a source of some 18mm tube for the boiler on the jumbo so any one any idea (I've got plenty of plastic conduit tube but that's 20mm or mine is)

Try Eileens Emporium for the 18mm brass tube.

https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=eny_fly_default.tpl&product_id=3429&category_id=85&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=9

[Jock67B]

Morning all,

Does anyone know if there are any proprietary models of the Caley 0-6-0 light goods 2F or 3F, or the 0-4-4T that we had around Hurlford Shed in the fifties, after the lovely G&SWR locos had been scrapped, or is serious modelling skill going to be required to produce one?

Any suggestions would be gratefully received,

Kind regards,

Jock.

[66C]

Hi Jock

 

In 4mm scale DJH list kits for the Jumbo and the 439 Class - details here:

 

http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/lms-kits/

 

In 7mm scale kits are available from Alba Railway Models - details here:

 

http://www.albarailwaymodels.co.uk/kits_loco.html

 

Regards.

[aardvark]

 

Thanks andytrains, that's a great document. Jintys are a good option: don't suppose there's an equivalent document for them?, I have the impression that the Hornsby pugs are also wildly inaccurate: something about them being stretched to fit an existing chassis?

[benachie]

aardvark,

There would also be the Hornby J50 with some allocated to Eastfield.    But if your setting is going to be Northeast Scotland, the J72 is the best bet.

Alan

[Jock67B]

Thank you Bill (66C),

And now the 64000 dollar question, does anyone hold an opinion as to whether the DJH 'Jumbo' or '439' class 0-4-0T in '00' are within the scope of a sixty-eight year old average modeller with limited mobility? At least they both have inside valve gear! Quite a lot of money to squander however, if they are very difficult to build so any input from anyone who has made one would be useful.

Grateful as ever,

Kind regards,

Jock.

[andytrains]

Thanks andytrains, that's a great document. Jintys are a good option: don't suppose there's an equivalent document for them?, I have the impression that the Hornsby pugs are also wildly inaccurate: something about them being stretched to fit an existing chassis?

I do not know of an on-line article on the Jinties.

British Railways Illustrated by Irwell Press, published articles on the Scottish Jinties called 'Jinties in a Foreign Land - Vol 17.12 September 2008, & Jinties in a Foreign Land:2 - Vol 18.1 Oct 2008'.

 

The Hornby Caley pug is way too long.

Anchorage later, and now, Falcon Brass did a kit for the pug.

I started one that I managed to hold of 2nd hand and I have used the Hornby saddle tank part, but it is only part built.

Edited October 16, 2015 by andytrains

[Ben Alder]

Building the 439 is straightforward enough; getting it balanced and running is another matter and I wouldn't advise this type as a first build. The 0-6-0 will be easier although I haven't actually tackled this one, but Romfords and a gearbox take much of the hassle away from getting something going smoothly.

[pH]

Thanks andytrains, that's a great document. Jintys are a good option: don't suppose there's an equivalent document for them?

 

Some information on Jinties in Scotland in this topic - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59825-jinty-and-4f-in-scotland/?hl=%2Bjinty+%2Bscotland

 

As Andytrains has mentioned above, the BRILL articles contain a lot more.

[Londontram]

Another alternative if you want a Caledonian small tank loco but don't fancy a chassis build there's the S E Finecast Caledonian 782 tank loco which is a body only kit to fit I believe a Hornby chassis, here's a link

 

http://www.sefinecast.co.uk/Locomotives/Bodyline%20Locomotive%20Kits%203.htm

[uax6]

Jock, The DJH 439 0-4-4T is actually not too bad a kit to build. I'm in the middle of building one at the minute (It's waiting me to pluck up the courage to paint it LMS red). Its the first loco kit I've done from scratch, and the chassis worked well striaght away.. The build is quite simple, but the bits I have changed are these:-

 

I've fitted a Branchlines 50 (or 60):1 gearbox, with mashima can and flywheel. I chose to mount it on the leading axle, even though this means that you can see the can under the boiler. This gets the weight (not much i know) over the two driving axles. I've also filled the smokebox with lead, again to help balance the thing out.

 

The rear bogie as designed is dead. My kit came with wheels (thanks Richard) so I used branchlines shorting bushes on one side to make the bogie live, and then threw away the bottom of the bogie and replaced the it with copperclad with a pair of pickup springs fitted to rub against the insulated wheels. The bogie is sprung as supplied, but I drilled a 0.45mm hole just behind the bolt in both the chassis and the bogie, and secured a bit of 0.45mm brass handrail wire into the chassis hole. The bogie sits over the other end of this, and the wire acts as a side control spring.

 

The result? It is a beautiful runner, quiet and surefooted.

 

My skill leveL? I would say average. The trick? Take your time! If you want I can post some pictures over the weekend.

 

The SEF caley 0-6-0T is also being built. This was originally designed for the triang chassis, although SEF now have an etched brass chassis for it (which also fits the ex Nucast/Sutherland HR 0-6-4T).

I'm using the traing chassis, very heavily butchered. I have fitted romfords, the leading axle running on the fat romford axle, which allows the axle hole to be elongated up and down to allow 'slop' and then two holes drilled above can be fitted with Hornby springs to spring the front axle. (The springs come from Peters spares and are for the modern Hornby 0-6-0 with full flanged wheels). The bit of chassis between the front axles is then filed away to make it a more frame shape. The rear axle is drive by a branchlines thin 50:1 two stage gearbox, mashima can and flywheel. The block is drilled to allow the gearbox to fit, and the whole apart from the top of the worm is hidden in the sidetanks, and you can barely see the worm in the cab. The coupling rods are etched ones from mainly trains, and I use two pairs to allow them to be jointed on the middle axle. Pickups are phosperbronze rubbing either behind or ontop of the treads, mounted on the top of the chassis. Running? Nice and smooth.

The body goes together quite nicely, only the sidetanks tops needing much work to get them to be smooth where they meet the boiler. Wtach the cab assembly, the tanks can be a different lengths, which pushes the cab out of square, but everthing is crisp and fits nicely with little work.

 

Again I can put photos up if you want.

 

Andy G

Edited October 16, 2015 by uax6

[Jock67B]

Many thanks to Richard, Londontram and AndyG, all useful input. The 439 looks like quite good value. Some photographs would always be useful Andy. As a matter of interest, did you use solder or glue in the build?

All suggestions are gratefully received,

Kind regards,

Jock.

[uax6]

The chassis is of standard etched sides and tapped spacers, and so goes together really easily. The body I have built with superglue (shock horror!). It seems to hold together well enough.

 

I'll dig out some pictures over the weekend for you.

 

Andy G

 

Edited to make sense!

Edited October 16, 2015 by uax6

[uax6]

Firstly the 439:

 

 

Now chassis shots:

Showing single stage gearbox on front axle

 

My bogie pick-ups and shorting bushes:

Note the wire from the bogie. This is secured usually to the body.

 

Showing the chassis mounted in the body

 

 

Now the SEF 0-6-0T:

 

The chassis butchering:

 

The underside of the gearbox:

The chassis with motor and gearbox:

The coupling rods:

 

 

Assembled:

 

As you can see the worm is only just visable with this arrangement.

 

As you can see both need finishing off, but most of the work is done.

 

Now who can see and guess what the other body shown in the photos is and will be?

 

Andy G

 

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by uax6

[Buhar]

T9 heading towards a Barney?  I presume you're leaving the Jumbo to Steve.

[uax6]

Close but not quite right, so half marks..... ;-}

 

Andy G

[Jock67B]

Thanks Andy for the images, I feel the 0-4-4T looks a better bet for a starter, noting carefully Richard's advice on balancing the weight.

I am grateful for any advice, and I thought I might keep an eye on eBay for a S/Hand 'Jumbo' which I could butcher if it came cheap enough. Bit intrigued that the Jumbo kit should cost almost as much as the Black5 one!

Kind regards,

Jock.

[uax6]

Put some lead in the smokebox and your balance issue is gone!

 

There was a K's version of the 439 as well, and they do turn up on ebay every now and again. I wonder if SEF got the moulds as part of the nucast haul? Might be worth giving Dave at SEF a bell.

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

Although way down on the build list I've got an old Hornby M7 which I was converting to a 439 but wasn't happy with a few things the old Triang style bogie and swinging arm being one of them (My crap standard of build quality being the other) so I've stripped it right down and this time I've got a Hornby T9 bogie so not only has it got the pick ups fitted but its also a center pivot mounting so will try Andy's way this time but I still think it will need a lot of weight up front.

 

    I have also modified a Hornby chassis into a 0-4-4 for a Caledonian 104 class tank and I did try to make the bogie load bearing but all it did was cut down the grip of the driving wheels so I ended up making it free floating and now its a lovely little chassis (Must do something about building a body for that as well some day) Here's a link to the page with the chassis.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/77470-caledonian-tank-loco-scratch-build-from-post-no-10/?p=1500485

 

       it was modified from a standard Hornby chassis and I've kept it with a simple swinging arm as its such a short chassis that there's virtually no swing on the bogie

Edited October 18, 2015 by Londontram

[1ngram]

Here's my GNSR K Class in WW1 era lined black in H0.

 

First with the 4 wheel tender used for lines with small turntables:

 

Then with the 6 wheel tender:

 

Its shown on my GNSR WW1 era layout "Dundarg" which will be appearing (as a static display only, alas), at the Aberdeeen Show next weekend on the GNSRA stand.

 

The loco and both tenders are scratchbuilt  by George Mitcheson.  The layout also has GNSR 6-wheeled coaches (as can be seen on the edge of the photos above), by George again using Worsley etches, and a variety of 3D printed, resin and brass etched wagons,  Mostly painted by me.

Edited October 18, 2015 by 1ngram

[uax6]

As it seems no-one is the wiser about the body lurking in the background I'll tell you. Its a venerable BEC 700, which has had 3mm of vertical height removed to bring the boiler down to the right pitch for a Barney, with another mill and a half out of the cab top above the spectacles to make it look better. It too is getting a modified triang chassis, along with a modified T9 tender. When I have finally got that one done, I have two more to modify in the same way, but which will have different features (like water tube boiler, watercart tender etc.)

 

Andy G