RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted October 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2012 Two different grades of Hi-Vis for platform and station staff on Southern: Orange - PTS and Safety Critical Duty Qualified (Platform staff who dispatch trains, detach/attach trains and ECS in service, etc) Yellowy-Green - Non safety critical (On train cleaners, security staff, gateline, etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hoover's pic in post #121 looks liek Toddington to me, at the south end of the yard looking east(ish). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Certainly looks like the Gloucester and Wotsit Railway. I wen to their site and you can buy an annual Lineside Pass for photography - but you must wear Hi-Vz and acknowledge the whistles and hoots of the locos.... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Re the guy on the ramp.......... Just for completeness, you can see an 'enthuisiast' in HV (the photographer confirmed the guy appeared to be just an enthusiast not a member of railway staff) down the platform ramp - dick head... Was anything done about him? Prob is once you let things go, it seems to be an automatic enlightenment to carry on regardless. Edit, mind you, on first glance it looks like the bloke on the platform is wearing a high viz back pack! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 To be fair if railways like the Gloucester and Warwick Railway let you buy Lineside Passes and insist you wear Hi-Viz then I would guess: a, They are not the only Preservation Railway to do this. b, These guys sling the old Hi-Viz in the back of the car, just in case. I'm amazed that in Britain there is not some standardized rules for this on Preservation Railways......................there is for just about anything else. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted October 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2012 To be fair if railways like the Gloucester and Warwick Railway let you buy Lineside Passes and insist you wear Hi-Viz then I would guess: a, They are not the only Preservation Railway to do this. b, These guys sling the old Hi-Viz in the back of the car, just in case. I'm amazed that in Britain there is not some standardized rules for this on Preservation Railways......................there is for just about anything else. Best, Pete. There are many that would like such a thing to come about, the idea of having one all encompassing heritage railways PTS / lineside photo permit does come up quite regularly. The problem with this is every heritage railway is different and so are the risks - some have tunnels others don't, some are single on a double track formation - others are not, some only have one train out and about while others will have many, signalling varies enormously from line to line as does where you can and can’t go. In fact with the legal climate around today and the way the HMRI / department for transport look at heritage railways today, its actually something of a miracle that some lines still do lineside passes -all it takes though is one photographer to do something silly and those that remain will vanish too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Just picking up on the NYMR and the wearing of HiVi on platforms, I was challenged a few years ago at Grosmont by a member of the station staff because I wasn't wearing a HiVi when on the platform, apparently because I had been in conversation with the loco crew who I happened to know. He wasn't happy when I pointed out that, as I was standing on the platform where any member of the public would be, I wasn't trackside and therefore didn't need one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 In fact with the legal climate around today and the way the HMRI / department for transport look at heritage railways today, its actually something of a miracle that some lines still do lineside passes -all it takes though is one photographer to do something silly and those that remain will vanish too. Yes, there is a rich heritage in the UK of knee-jerk reactions of authority to the one miscreant at the expense of everyone else who do follow the rules. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2012 Just picking up on the NYMR and the wearing of HiVi on platforms, I was challenged a few years ago at Grosmont by a member of the station staff because I wasn't wearing a HiVi when on the platform, apparently because I had been in conversation with the loco crew who I happened to know. He wasn't happy when I pointed out that, as I was standing on the platform where any member of the public would be, I wasn't trackside and therefore didn't need one. Unfortunately, though, exactly that faulty logic on his part seemed to pervade the whole national network in my final years, helping me to hurry out of the door. Apparently, if I visited a station, even though I remained at all times within public access areas, I was required to sign in. It was bad enough when the wearing of an orange vest no longer entitled me to wander about yards and sidings as had been the case for a couple of decades, but having to sign in to look at facilities in public areas was the last straw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I pointed out that, as I was standing on the platform where any member of the public would be, I wasn't trackside and therefore didn't need one. On the mainline/NWR infrastructure, if you are considered to be working under a safe system of work (with a COSS or IWA etc) then you are required to be oranged up. In your case (and I'm not entirely sure from reading it) if you had been doing something which required HV and you had removed it to go on to the platform then it may look a bit odd. I don't know the exact circumstances but I can see why you might have been challenged. Still with the NYMR, how do you explain to a toddler that the signalman at Goathland is 'on the track' (handing a token to a driver) but hasn't got 'an orange coat on'?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Unfortunately that incident at Grosmont is typical of the numptyism particular to a small group of people who wonder why they are never capable of doing more on a preserved railway than standing about looking pretty and are never trusted with any actual responsibility. Now people are pulled up if they are wearing a hi-vis on the platform, at the end of the day, it's a museum trying to recreate the period image and people walking round with orange vests sewn to their shirts is a modern phenomena. I'm hoping things have changed, at least to some extent although with any organisation with 1000+ volunteers on its book you are likely still to get the odd nob. I take your point James, but it is a heritage railway, the train is only doing 10mph and the train crew meet the eyesight requirements. If they can't see the signalman from 200 feet away at 10mph standing there with the token then they probably shouldn't be on the footplate. In addition the chances of the signalman being hit by passing traffic is fairly low considering his back is protected by fixed signals and a set of traps (for the loop road anyway) and the Down train is coming off a 5mph slack over the points. The Driver also knows that Goathland in the Down direction is a compulsory stop, and the road is laid for the sand drag until he stops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Unfortunately, though, exactly that faulty logic on his part seemed to pervade the whole national network in my final years, helping me to hurry out of the door. Apparently, if I visited a station, even though I remained at all times within public access areas, I was required to sign in. It was bad enough when the wearing of an orange vest no longer entitled me to wander about yards and sidings as had been the case for a couple of decades, but having to sign in to look at facilities in public areas was the last straw. During the Hampton Court Flower show, I happened to conduct a Track Maintenance Engineers' trackwalk of the Hampton Court Branch from Surbiton back to Surbiton, - after partaking of a well-earned cup of coffee at HC station kiosk I walked off the platform by the bufferstops to walk in the wideway adjacent to the platform track making observations / measurements of the platform track (1933 vintage rail btw) when I was challenged by a member of SWT staff on the platform who said "Are you allowed to be down there ?". So............. I put down my 5ft long very technical looking track gauge, my large sheaf of HSTRC traces, IMPART print-outs, notes, my hard hat and stared hard at him past all my bright orange Network Rail branded PPE (being the shiniest thing for miles around I'm sure) and replied very unprofessionally "how the fecking hell am I supposed to look after the track your trains run on then, Chum ??" - he blinked and walked away................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 During the Hampton Court Flower show, I happened to conduct a Track Maintenance Engineers' trackwalk of the Hampton Court Branch from Surbiton back to Surbiton, - after partaking of a well-earned cup of coffee at HC station kiosk I walked off the platform by the bufferstops to walk in the wideway adjacent to the platform track making observations / measurements of the platform track (1933 vintage rail btw) when I was challenged by a member of SWT staff on the platform who said "Are you allowed to be down there ?". So............. I put down my 5ft long very technical looking track gauge, my large sheaf of HSTRC traces, IMPART print-outs, notes, my hard hat and stared hard at him past all my bright orange Network Rail branded PPE (being the shiniest thing for miles around I'm sure) and replied very unprofessionally "how the fecking hell am I supposed to look after the track your trains run on then, Chum ??" - he blinked and walked away................. It's nice to know that stupidity isn't a trait limited solely to the preservation industry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Boris, it wasn't a criticism! But I teach Thomas that you stay off the track and when he's seen me at Crabley (and it's OK because Daddy'as working) where we went to do the gates by hand, I'd be in orange. So then it's harder explain why someone somewhere else can go on track without HV, if you see what I mean... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2012 I've always assumed that a signalman - better than all other grades - knows exactly where and when trains will appear. That doesn't stop human frailty by forgetfulness, of course, but then neither will all the hideous dayglo apparel in the world! The dramatic drop in staff accident and casualty numbers in the wake of Clapham/Hidden, Dupont etc was a marvellous thing - but the pendular motion of those initiatives carried on far beyond the sensible to the silly and restrictive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted October 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2012 On the mainline/NWR infrastructure, if you are considered to be working under a safe system of work (with a COSS or IWA etc) then you are required to be oranged up. In your case (and I'm not entirely sure from reading it) if you had been doing something which required HV and you had removed it to go on to the platform then it may look a bit odd. I don't know the exact circumstances but I can see why you might have been challenged. Still with the NYMR, how do you explain to a toddler that the signalman at Goathland is 'on the track' (handing a token to a driver) but hasn't got 'an orange coat on'?! The theory is that as the signalman is in charge of train movements, He / she will know where trains are and therefore should not put themseleves in a position where they could be struck by a passing train. Similarly loco crew and guards on heritage railways are usually exempt becasue it is argued they will know where their own train is and shouldn't be hit by it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Got to admit it, many of us bus drivers keep our hi-viz jackets on when travelling home from work by train. Although ours are yellow rather than orange we still get passengers showing us their tickets. I do try and remember to remove mine though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I've always assumed that a signalman - better than all other grades - knows exactly where and when trains will appear. That doesn't stop human frailty by forgetfulness, of course, but then neither will all the hideous dayglo apparel in the world! The closest I ever came to being killed was whilst working as a signalman. I'd crossed over to handsignal a driver past my home signal, waited patiently in the cess for him to set off, then crossed behind the unit. If someone waiting on the adjacent crossing hadn't screamed I would have walked straight in front of the other train i'd talked past the opposing signal by telephone a couple of minutes before. The hi-viz I was wearing wouldn't have done me a bit of good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Has no one read my posts? I'm not questioning the HV or lack of, but rather was making a comment about how to explain a toddler who is used to seeing people working on the railway and going on track in orange? The theory is that as the signalman is in charge of train movements I should really find out what signallers do... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Has no one read my posts? I'm not questioning the HV or lack of, but rather was making a comment about how to explain a toddler who is used to seeing people working on the railway and going on track in orange? How about "on the steam railway the adults are treated like adults, but on daddys railway they're treated like children". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 How about "on the steam railway the adults are treated like adults, but on daddys railway they're treated like children". Or perhaps that steam trains run in museums and that orange day-glo clothes haven't been invented their yet? Or that the men who work with steam trains are really really naughty and have sold their hi-vis on ebay to pay for their 20 a day tea habit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 How about "Because their Fat Controller says they don't have to" ? I have similar problems trying to explain to a car-mad 3 yr old that real cars are dangerous. How could they possibly be dangerous when Lightning McQueen and Rory aren't ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 You could always say Grandma ate them all, it works with my granddaughter all the time, it's just painful if Grandma is within clouting distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 How about "Because their Fat Controller says they don't have to" ? I like that one! He's learning that you stay away from the track itself which is good - it just appears to a small boy familair with the 'real' railway that non-railwaymen are where they shouldn't be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 You could always say Grandma ate them all, it works with my granddaughter all the time, it's just painful if Grandma is within clouting distance. Not a chance anything like that would work on him - while I've been off work we popped to see someone at on box which had its frame removed a few years ago and has an NX panel in its place. When we got back to the village we popped to see my parents and he promptly told my Dad that "Kelly's signal box has buttons, not levers like Daddy's." Actually I doubt many children his age would know what a signalbox was, let alone that there are different controls in them! Very little gets passed him! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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