Jump to content
 

Waverley Route new image links and discussion

'CHARD

By 'CHARD,
in The Waverley Route

 Share

Recommended Posts

Rugd1022

Rugd1022

Posted
Posted

A quick heads up for you staunch Waverley types - there's a totem from Riddings Junction up for grabs at the next GCR Railwayana auction on Saturday 3rd September, Lot #71, estimate is £1000 - £1500.

 

(Quite a number of Scottish Region totems and enamel signs in this sale).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill Jamieson

Bill Jamieson

Posted
Posted

These may be the ones you mention - https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=27942 and

https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=25189

 

Is there a note of the numbers of the 350s anywhere?

 

Alasdair

 

Afraid not  - Robin Barbour's diary only listed the date, location and identity of the A4.

 

Bill

Link to post
Share on other sites
millerhillboy

millerhillboy

Posted
Posted

April '63 2M52 passing Langlee en route its next stop at Melrose.  Early days of the dieselised passenger service.  Note LNE colour light signals complementing the pre-cast concrete footbridge.

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=56117

 

Packed with supporting detail.....

What do we suppose is at the end of that consist? Some sort of CCT or pigeon van even.

 

Reason I'm asking is I'm just finishing off a long wheel based CCT

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill Jamieson

Bill Jamieson

Posted
Posted (edited)

This picture is intriguing - https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=56316 . Why was the train diverted over the Waverley, when it could have gone by the ex-G&SW? (And the pilot is carrying the "bow-tie"!)

 

Not if the incident causing the diversion happened somewhere north of Carlisle but south of Grtena Jn.

 

Bill

 

PS There was a serious crash actually at Gretna Junction on 5th November 1940. The trees in the shot don't really look that autumnal, but if it hadn't been a windy autumn, they might have kept their leaves that late.

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_Gretna1940.pdf

Edited by Bill Jamieson
Link to post
Share on other sites
pH

pH

Posted
Posted

Not if the incident causing the diversion happened somewhere north of Carlisle but south of Grtena Jn.

 

Bill

 

PS There was a serious crash actually at Gretna Junction on 5th November 1940. The trees in the shot don't really look that autumnal, but if it hadn't been a windy autumn, they might have kept their leaves that late.

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_Gretna1940.pdf

 

Bill, my guess would be that the picture is earlier than 1940. I don't think the LMS would still be using double-headed compounds on the Mid-day Scot in 1940. IIRC, that train was a regular 'Princess' duty by 1939. Also, both engines (certainly the pilot) are pretty clean, which wouldn't be generally the case by the end of 1940. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill Jamieson

Bill Jamieson

Posted
Posted (edited)

Bill, my guess would be that the picture is earlier than 1940. I don't think the LMS would still be using double-headed compounds on the Mid-day Scot in 1940. IIRC, that train was a regular 'Princess' duty by 1939. Also, both engines (certainly the pilot) are pretty clean, which wouldn't be generally the case by the end of 1940. 

 

pH, I have my doubts about it being 1940 as well (photography of railways would have been prohibited by that date for example) but it does illustrate why a diversion over the WR could occur. I would agree that in normal circumstances the use of two Compounds would not have been usual by that time but I wonder if the LNER would have accepted a Princess or Duchess at short notice (c.f. recent Network Rail 'gauging issues') - that said the cleanliness factor you mention does seem a convincing argument against 1940.

Bill

 

PS The Gretna Jn crash is the only one I can find on the website I gave the link to earlier (and I've checked against Floriston, Mossband, Kingmoor and Etterby as well), but I suspect that a freight train derailment at any of these locations, not involving any passenger trains or fatalities, probably wouldn't appear, even if it shut up the shop for for hours.

Edited by Bill Jamieson
Link to post
Share on other sites
AJCT

AJCT

Posted
Posted

pH, I have my doubts about it being 1940 as well (photography of railways would have been prohibited by that date for example) but it does illustrate why a diversion over the WR could occur. I would agree that in normal circumstances the use of two Compounds would not have been usual by that time but I wonder if the LNER would have accepted a Princess or Duchess at short notice (c.f. recent Network Rail 'gauging issues') - that said the cleanliness factor you mention does seem a convincing argument against 1940.

Bill

 

PS The Gretna Jn crash is the only one I can find on the website I gave the link to earlier (and I've checked against Floriston, Mossband, Kingmoor and Etterby as well), but I suspect that a freight train derailment at any of these locations, not involving any passenger trains or fatalities, probably wouldn't appear, even if it shut up the shop for for hours.

 

This pic was published in a wee booklet entitled "Scotland's Lost Railways - 1. The Borders" (edited by the late Iain R.Smith, Moorfoot Publishing, Edinburgh 1982 - ISBN 0 906606 05 5) and the caption states: "Unusual visitors to the line in the early 1930s were two LMS Compound 4-4-0s, Nos 920 and 1125, double-heading the Edinburgh (Princes St) 'Mid-day Scot' to London (Euston), when the former Caledonian main line to Carlisle was blocked by a derailment at Carstairs."

 

It's interesting to speculate how the train might have got from Princes St. to the Waverley Route, given the non-existence of the Craiglockhart or Duff St connections between the CR and the NB in Edinburgh back then.  Taking it down the CR Granton branch and onto the NB via the link across Granton Square seems a bit unlikely, so my money is on a pilot engine taking the train out the Wester Dalry branch to Haymarket West Junction, where the train engines would be attached to what had been the rear of the train before proceeding eastwards through Haymarket and Waverley stations....

 

Alasdair

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill Jamieson

Bill Jamieson

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ian, 

 

Yes, I think you've got it. A derailment south of but close to Carstairs would certainly make sense if the train involved was an Edinburgh portion rather than a train from Glasgow (which could be divertd over the G&SW). The predecessor of the Mid-day Scot in the very last year of the CR (1.30 pm from Glasgow and Edinburgh, 9.30 am from Aberdeen) conveyed through coaches from Edinburgh to Liverpool, Manchester and Euston. The Edinburgh and Aberdeen portions combined at Symington (rather than Carstairs) and would have been a reasonably substantial train - they were united with the train starting in Glasgow at Carlisle - but how long this arrangement lasted under the LMS, I have no idea.

 

Although rather blurred, the number of the leading loco looks to be 920, which was one of two Compounds allocated to Dalry Road from new in 1927, so this at least seems to fit with it being an Edinburgh portion. The loco livery is 1928 maroon but are the coaches later than that? A search for accidents at Carstairs only reveals a February 1930 incident which can be ruled out because of the foliage on the trees, but there were incidents further south, of which a contender is a derailment at Kirtlebridge on 2nd July 1930.

 

Bill

 

PS Alasdair's reply was posted while I was writing the above so I wasn't aware that he had confirmed the identity of the train.

Edited by Bill Jamieson
Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill Jamieson

Bill Jamieson

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

It's interesting to speculate how the train might have got from Princes St. to the Waverley Route, given the non-existence of the Craiglockhart or Duff St connections between the CR and the NB in Edinburgh back then.  Taking it down the CR Granton branch and onto the NB via the link across Granton Square seems a bit unlikely, so my money is on a pilot engine taking the train out the Wester Dalry branch to Haymarket West Junction, where the train engines would be attached to what had been the rear of the train before proceeding eastwards through Haymarket and Waverley stations....

 

Alasdair

 

Alasdair,

 

By chance I bought a copy of NBR Study Group Journal No. 119 (July 2013) at the Hawick show on Saturday and this has a description of the reverse manoeuvre performed by a Queen St. to Scarborough train, which was diverted via Carstairs (after calling at Waverley) in the aftermath of the 1948 floods. If this is anything to go by, you have basically got it right, except that it seems more likely the complete train (including the train locos attached at the rear) would have been hauled out of Princes St. by a pilot loco as far as Haymarket West Junction, where there was an exchange siding located between the Glasgow and Forth Bridge lines. The exchange siding can be seen on the OS 1:2500 map - http://maps.nls.uk/view/82877442

 

Bill

Edited by Bill Jamieson
Link to post
Share on other sites
AJCT

AJCT

Posted
Posted

Alasdair,

 

By chance I bought a copy of NBR Study Group Journal No. 119 (July 2013) at the Hawick show on Saturday and this has a description of the reverse manoeuvre performed by a Queen St. to Scarborough train, which was diverted via Carstairs (after calling at Waverley) in the aftermath of the 1948 floods. If this is anything to go by, you have basically got it right, except that it seems more likely the complete train (including the train locos attached at the rear) would have been hauled out of Princes St. by a pilot loco as far as Haymarket West Junction, where there was an exchange siding located between the Glasgow and Forth Bridge lines. The exchange siding can be seen on the OS 1:2500 map - http://maps.nls.uk/view/82877442

 

Bill

 

Thanks, Bill - being a member of the NBRSG I should have that Journal but I must have missed that little item, as my suggestion was worked out using basic logic !

 

Alasdair

Link to post
Share on other sites
37175

37175

Posted
Posted

Whilst trawling the 'net for more about 60528 on Sat 23rd April '66, I happened upon the following photos which may be of interest (links to a forum page with thumbnails):

 

http://lensmen.org.uk/showthread.php?tid=1603&pid=6053#pid6053

 

and

 

http://lensmen.org.uk/showthread.php?tid=1603&pid=6055#pid6055

 

Photos at Steele Road, near Galashiels, Shap and finally near Longtown.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mad McCann

Mad McCann

Posted
Posted

Alasdair,

 

I really should join the NBRSG too - it would be well worthwhile for the journal alone, which is an excellent publication.

 

Bill

I'd concur with that; even as a dedicated Caley/SouWest man I can vouch for the superlative quality of the NB's journal and it's invariably a welcome arrival on the doormat.

 

Dave.

Link to post
Share on other sites
kingfisher24

kingfisher24

Posted
Posted

Whilst trawling the 'net for more about 60528 on Sat 23rd April '66, I happened upon the following photos which may be of interest (links to a forum page with thumbnails):

 

http://lensmen.org.uk/showthread.php?tid=1603&pid=6053#pid6053

 

and

 

http://lensmen.org.uk/showthread.php?tid=1603&pid=6055#pid6055

 

Photos at Steele Road, near Galashiels, Shap and finally near Longtown.

i believe this railtour was 60528's last (or almost last) run as the loco was withdrawn shortly afterwards.

 

gary

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill Jamieson

Bill Jamieson

Posted
Posted

Whilst trawling the 'net for more about 60528 on Sat 23rd April '66, I happened upon the following photos which may be of interest (links to a forum page with thumbnails):

 

http://lensmen.org.uk/showthread.php?tid=1603&pid=6053#pid6053

 

and

 

http://lensmen.org.uk/showthread.php?tid=1603&pid=6055#pid6055

 

Photos at Steele Road, near Galashiels, Shap and finally near Longtown.

 

I'm fairly sure the shot claimed to be near Galashiels is actually approaching the closed station at Brisco, on the WCML just south of Carlisle.

 

Bill

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...