Waverley Route new image links and discussion

[Bill Jamieson]

Thanks Flamingo.

 

And here are two of rebuilt Patriot 45530 at Whitrope with a Millerhill to Carlisle New Yard freight.

 

Bill

 

PS A Paul Riley shot of the same train appears in Roger Siviter's 'Waverley' book - both Paul Riley and Paul Claxton were members of the MNA.

 

http://www.railpictorial.com/piwigo/picture.php?/6968/category/9

http://www.railpictorial.com/piwigo/picture.php?/6969/category/9

Edited July 4, 2014 by Bill Jamieson

[Durranhill]

I thought these pics were familiar - I have bought a number of these negs off a seller on ebay & was outbid on a few more including a Black Five at Stainton crossing .

One from the collection  -  http://www.railpictorial.com/piwigo/picture.php?/3559/category/13 & my purchase on ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60955-at-Kingmoor-Marshalling-Yard-with-mixed-goods-20-3-65-/351035908222?ssPageName=ADME%3AL%3ACOSI%3AGB%3A1123&ViewItem=&item=351035908222&nma=true&si=1FwmOwepPA%252FQXBb4kmXfP9y5ZkA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  - click on the pic & it should make it bigger ..

 

I have emailed the Paul Claxton Collection regarding the above & given him the name of the ebay seller & am waiting for a reply .

 

The collection that I bought came with copyright from the seller so how do I stand ?? .

 

Stewart .

[The Border Reiver]

I thought these pics were familiar - I have bought a number of these negs off a seller on ebay & was outbid on a few more including a Black Five at Stainton crossing .

One from the collection  -  http://www.railpictorial.com/piwigo/picture.php?/3559/category/13 & my purchase on ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60955-at-Kingmoor-Marshalling-Yard-with-mixed-goods-20-3-65-/351035908222?ssPageName=ADME%3AL%3ACOSI%3AGB%3A1123&ViewItem=&item=351035908222&nma=true&si=1FwmOwepPA%252FQXBb4kmXfP9y5ZkA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  - click on the pic & it should make it bigger ..

 

I have emailed the Paul Claxton Collection regarding the above & given him the name of the ebay seller & am waiting for a reply .

 

The collection that I bought came with copyright from the seller so how do I stand ?? .

 

Stewart .

If you have bought the original negative then the copyright belongs to you....

[Bill Jamieson]

I was going to suggest that the negatives bought by Durranhill might be from another photographer - virtually identical photographs (on the WR and elsewhere) to those in the Paul Claxton collection have been published and credited to David Gouldthorp - but close examination of the ebay and Paul Claxton V2 shots at Stainton Jn confirms that they are indeed from the same negative.

 

Bill

[37175]

If you have bought the original negative then the copyright belongs to you....

 

Tricky one that ... copyright of a photo lasts for 70 years after the death of the photographer, who in theory is the only person whilst he/she's alive that can transfer (if that's the phrase) the copyright to someone else.

 

When the photographer passes away the 70 years starts ... but I would imagine if an estate of the deceased decides to dispose of negatives/slides then it could be their prerogative to sell it with a transfer of rights.

 

Buying an original therefore doesn't mean automatically that the copyright belongs to you, as it may still have rights attached which the photographer or estate haven't given their permission to transfer. 

 

Mind you, when you buy them from the original photographer on ebay (and I've bought loads of them!) it's usually a safe bet that they know what they're doing when they say they're selling them with the copyright transferred to the winning bidder. Just how a company who sells them and says that goes about it I'm not sure, as the purchaser doesn't have the peace of mind that they're not infringing copyright if they then publish the image anywhere.

 

Unfortunately I've had to look into all this recently for a number of reasons, some of which relate to Waverley Route images which have been published elsewhere without any permission whatsoever. Also, at the WRHA we have to be 100% sure that we have non-exclusive copyright permission to publish, otherwise it could land us in a heap of trouble.

 

A bit of a boring post, I know - sorry about that!

[Bill Jamieson]

No need to apologise Matt, I found your post of interest. 

 

By chance I have come across another shot from the Paul Claxton collection on the tail lamp photography site http://www.taillampphotography.com/Graphics%20Used%20For%20Website/STEAM/COLLECTION/PAUL%20CLAXTON/MKLRaBRScR00233PC.jpg

 

The photograph is overprinted with Copyright taillampphotography / original photographer Paul Claxton so it would appear that Mike Claxton is not explicitly retaining copyright when he sells the negatives (corrected 27:7:14)

 

Curiously, a print of the same shot is currently for sale on ebay (do a search for 1S53+70002+Gleneagles), apparently from two different sellers - one of them makes it clear that the print does not come with copyright.

 

Unfortunately the caption from http://www.railpictorial.com/piwigo/picture.php?/436/category/3 has been taken at face value - this shot is of a southbound train at Dunblane (probably the 3.30pm Aberdeen to Glasgow Buchanan St.), not the 09:25 Crewe to Perth at Gleneagles, and presumably other errors are being propagated when the negatives are sold.

 

I suppose I should apologise now, as the above has nothing to do with the WR at all!

 

Bill

Edited July 27, 2014 by Bill Jamieson

['CHARD]

An unexpected lovely shot of the line in context.

 

No trains, and none the worse for that:

 

http://www.heartofhawick.co.uk/drumlanrig/collections/gallery/mills_machines/large/lyle_and_scott.jpg

 

 

Timeless and evocative:

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1.0-9/q81/s720x720/10176106_652579694811270_200646978_n.jpg

Edited September 8, 2014 by 'CHARD

[Mad McCann]

The line can't have been gone ten years in that image?

['CHARD]

The line can't have been gone ten years in that image?

 

Beautiful image on so many levels.  

 

Signature Borders byway, unlined.  

The Waverley snaking round yonder moors.

Matching Rover P5 and caravan, someone's pride and joy. 

 

It's so evocative it almost transcends description.

Edited September 8, 2014 by 'CHARD

[fegguk]

not much has changed except for the extra trees this was 2008

 

Edited September 8, 2014 by fegguk

[Rugd1022]

I wasn't entirely sure which thread this should go in but plumped for this one, anyway, just as a heads up.... I've just received the latest GCR Railwayana Auction catalogue and there are some nice Waverley items up for grabs :

 

Lot #206 : BR (ScR) totem sign for Fountainhall, fully flanged, a couple of marks otherwise excellent, estimate £900 - £1200.

 

Lot #218 : LNER cast iron seat back plate for Melrose, repainted in green / white, estimate £200 - £350.

 

Lot #306 : LNER lamp tablet for St.Boswells, minor edge chips repainted, estimate £200 - £350.

 

Lot #309 : LNER cast iron seat back plate for Galashields, one welded repair and repainted green / white, estimate £200 - £350.

 

Lot #415 : BR (ScR) totem sign for Tynehead, fully flanged in superb condition, estimate £900 - £1200.

 

[37175]

I wasn't entirely sure which thread this should go in but plumped for this one, anyway, just as a heads up.... I've just received the latest GCR Railwayana Auction catalogue and there are some nice Waverley items up for grabs :

 

Lot #206 : BR (ScR) totem sign for Fountainhall, fully flanged, a couple of marks otherwise excellent, estimate £900 - £1200.

 

Lot #218 : LNER cast iron seat back plate for Melrose, repainted in green / white, estimate £200 - £350.

 

Lot #306 : LNER lamp tablet for St.Boswells, minor edge chips repainted, estimate £200 - £350.

 

Lot #309 : LNER cast iron seat back plate for Galashields, one welded repair and repainted green / white, estimate £200 - £350.

 

Lot #415 : BR (ScR) totem sign for Tynehead, fully flanged in superb condition, estimate £900 - £1200.

 

 

 

Don't forget Lot 275 :   

 

 

 

Surface blemishes in a couple of places and like the others has a £900-1200 estimate.

['CHARD]

Never seen these ingredients previously:

 

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=48975

[62440]

30/- delivered to Hawick in 1969.

[Durranhill]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361047315666?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

£11.50p & del to Durranhill ,Carlisle .

 

Stewart .

['CHARD]

Check this out before it vanishes.

 

What appears to be a three car Met-Cam DMU in the down bay at Hawick, clearly showing BR Blue with wrap round yellow ends SC51468, which is a great (and rare) DMU I.D on the line.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hawick-Railway-Railway-Station-Photo-Stobs-Hassendean-Riccarton-Line-/261515349084?pt=UK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ&hash=item3ce3878c5c

['CHARD]

...and out with the bible.

 

SC51468+59566+51538.  She spent a couple of years away at 66C (Hamilton) but was a Leith Central unit again by this time, which I'm prepared to wager is Autumn '68. 

[37175]

Some new photos have emerged via the Southern Reporter, available for viewing via a newsreel-type thingumybob. 

 

http://www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/news/memories-of-when-closed-track-was-hard-at-work-1-3624764

 

Details of the photographer etc are on the link. Not sure why these haven't surfaced before, I know that WRHA have put out many requests in the Southern previously for any unseen photos that can be scanned/digitised for future generations. Still good to see them though!

[coronach]

Not a Waverley route service - but it could have been.  I was just looking through the 'Midland and Eastern Lines' Steam Colour Portfolio by Keith R Pirt and came across a picture on page 43 of Kolhapur heading north at Garsdale on a Nottingham to Glasgow train.  The interesting thing for me is the make up of the train:

 

5 x BR mk1s (maroon) - SK.SK,CK.BSK.CK

4 x LMS Stanier (maroon) - 4 x TK

1 x LNER Thompson (maroon) - TK (?)

1 x BR Mk2A BFK (blue / grey).

 

Its the only picture I have ever seen of early Mk2 stock coupled to pre-nationalised stock on a service train.

 

 

C

[Mad McCann]

I expect it would be a 2 rather than a 2a; the latter were AB only as far as I'm aware.

[Bill Jamieson]

From the 1981 Platform 5 coaching stock pocket book, BFK Mk2As built as Lot 30775 in 1967-68 (14056 - 14077) were a mixture of vacuum and air braked, although it's probably still unlikely to have been one of them, depending on when they were actually delivered.

 

Bill

[Bob Reid]

From the 1981 Platform 5 coaching stock pocket book, BFK Mk2As built as Lot 30775 in 1967-68 (14056 - 14077) were a mixture of vacuum and air braked, although it's probably still unlikely to have been one of them, depending on when they were actually delivered.

 

Bill

Not so Bill, the early Mk2's were the only ones built new with vacuum brake. All of the Mk2a's were built with air brakes but some however were converted to vacuum brake in the mid to late 1970s.....

[Bill Jamieson]

Not a Waverley route service - but it could have been.  I was just looking through the 'Midland and Eastern Lines' Steam Colour Portfolio by Keith R Pirt and came across a picture on page 43 of Kolhapur heading north at Garsdale on a Nottingham to Glasgow train.  The interesting thing for me is the make up of the train:

 

5 x BR mk1s (maroon) - SK.SK,CK.BSK.CK

4 x LMS Stanier (maroon) - 4 x TK

1 x LNER Thompson (maroon) - TK (?)

1 x BR Mk2A BFK (blue / grey).

 

Its the only picture I have ever seen of early Mk2 stock coupled to pre-nationalised stock on a service train.

 

 

C

Coronach, is this on the same date as the Keith Pirt shot?http://www.railpictorial.com/piwigo/picture.php?/7203/category/9

(if that link doesn't work, try http://www.railpictorial.com  then click on 'LM steam' and find image 7022 on page 141)

the caption claims it to be 22 July 1967, a day on which 45593 certainly worked 1S52, although the dates given on that site for the various 1967 shots of Jubilees on the S&C aren't necessarily reliable.

 

Bill

 

PS What is particularly intriguing about this train is that there was no corresponding up working between Glasgow and Birmingham over the S&C, and I would like to know how the rake of coaches returned south. One possibility is the dated 21:20 SO Glasgow Central - London Euston which, like 1S52, started running on 15 July in 1967. There was a dated 13:20 Euston - Glasgow but this wasn't due into Glasgow until 20:45 and would presumably have gone out to Bellahouston for servicing. Nothing to do with the WR, I know!

Edited December 6, 2014 by Bill Jamieson

[coronach]

Coronach, is this on the same date as the Keith Pirt shot?http://www.railpictorial.com/piwigo/picture.php?/7203/category/9

(if that link doesn't work, try http://www.railpictorial.com  then click on 'LM steam' and find image 7022 on page 141)

the caption claims it to be 22 July 1967, a day on which 45593 certainly worked 1S52, although the dates given on that site for the various 1967 shots of Jubilees on the S&C aren't necessarily reliable.

 

Bill

 

PS What is particularly intriguing about this train is that there was no corresponding up working between Glasgow and Birmingham over the S&C, and I would like to know how the rake of coaches returned south. One possibility is the dated 21:20 SO Glasgow Central - London Euston which, like 1S52, started running on 15 July in 1967. There was a dated 13:20 Euston - Glasgow but this wasn't due into Glasgow until 20:45 and would presumably have gone out to Bellahouston for servicing. Nothing to do with the WR, I know!

Yes, that is the same train.  The coach at the rear is shown more clearly in the Pirt book

[37175]

Have we seen this one before?

 

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/319089/35358411