Kernow Models D6xx Update

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Don't worry about timescales. Look at the GW electrification...............................  

[Clive Mortimore]

There still seems to be a lot of people you cannot wait.

 

There has always been alternatives. Mike Cole made a very nice one in brass way back when the real ones were in service.

 

I might buy one, still haven't made up my mind.

 

I am lucky I already have one and a nearly finished one. Both converted from Hornby class 29s. I know some people who brought the Silver Fox model, I could of done but the thought of justifying another one for layouts where they didn't run sort of won the day. Hence my reluctance to say yes at the moment regarding the Kernow one. If it is nice and the bank balance right then might increases to a big may be.

 

I did start to scratchbuild one, but that donated its noses to the converted 29s. For those who are fed up with waiting there alternatives as I have mentioned. Or be patient, they are only model trains not the most important thing in life. Unless you are like Dave and make your living out of them.

 

They entered service in December 1957, were withdrawn ten years later. Forty-five years after withdrawal Kernow announced they were going to make a model of them. Nearly five years since that date people are getting all excited  wanting it NOW!!!! Hang about in December you would have had 60 years in which to make your own model (or pay someone else to do so). What is the panic for it, unless some of you think you may expire before the model arrives?

[Oldddudders]

What is the panic for it, unless some of you think you may expire before the model arrives?

Manufacturer and commissioner bashing is seen as fair game. In this case the commissioner laid out some sort of investment to start the design process more than 5 years ago. He is some way off getting a penny back, and has meantime shelled out rather more for subsequent stages of the model development cycle. He employs people in his shop, and would like to feed his family. He is at least as anxious as anyone else to get the models delivered and paid for by customers.

[lochlongside]

Don't worry about timescales. Look at the GW electrification...............................

 not to mention the cost increase  - beats anything BacHby have done in the same timescale even in percentage terms and all homegrown - no going to China for this one   !!

[Clive Mortimore]

Manufacturer and commissioner bashing is seen as fair game. In this case the commissioner laid out some sort of investment to start the design process more than 5 years ago. He is some way off getting a penny back, and has meantime shelled out rather more for subsequent stages of the model development cycle. He employs people in his shop, and would like to feed his family. He is at least as anxious as anyone else to get the models delivered and paid for by customers.

Hi Ian

 

I am on Kernow's side. I just cannot get my head round why people are getting so wound up about a small class of locos that saw limited service, surely they cannot be the must have class for their layouts. Just be patient they will arrive.

[Roy Langridge]

Hi Ian

 

I am on Kernow's side. I just cannot get my head round why people are getting so wound up about a small class of locos that saw limited service, surely they cannot be the must have class for their layouts. Just be patient they will arrive.

Society has changed to one of selfish longing where many people think they are owed whatever they want, yesterday. Does my head in.

 

Roy

[jjb1970]

I know I keep saying this, but the only party suffering from the delay is Kernow. They've committed a lot of money to make this project happen and won't make a return until they deliver the product. They haven't taken £50 deposits or tried to transfer risk for the project as per some other commissions and I have a lot of respect for them on that point as well as admiration for doing this model in the first place.

From where I sit every producer of OO (and many in HO and other scales) struggle to meet promised delivery dates. If payment is taken upfront then that is a problem and not acceptable, if pre-orders do not involve an upfront payment and can be cancelled then what's the big deal, really?

[BlackRat]

For all of you whining I suggest you give a thought to Chris T at Kernow who has committed significant amounts of time and money into this, which is a lot more than you have.

 

Patience is a virtue, try and prove the adage correct.

[Ian Hargrave]

Why do threads always seem to end with self righteous clap trap.

We do try with a few exceptions to moderate our forms of expression to be polite to each other.There are also forum rules to guide us.An occasional read is recommended.In the final resort we fortunately have moderators to intercede.

[Roy Langridge]

We do try with a few exceptions to moderate our forms of expression to be polite to each other.There are also forum rules to guide us.An occasional read is recommended.In the final resort we fortunately have moderators to intercede.

I think we are now at the point where it should be accepted that commissions of all new toolings will take time. Then, when things move quicker, we can have a happy forum.

 

I have waited years for my EPBs, 205s etc. and now the D6xx. Not once have I complained, I am just pleased that I get these models one day that, to be quite honest, I never thought we would see RTR.

 

Roy

[Oldddudders]

Hi Ian

 

I am on Kernow's side. I just cannot get my head round why people are getting so wound up about a small class of locos that saw limited service, surely they cannot be the must have class for their layouts. Just be patient they will arrive.

Never doubted it, Clive. I intended my post to build upon yours. I saw all this class in service, and that's why I wonder how the model could be fundamental to anyone's layout strategy. There were few of them, they weren't particularly successful or reliable, and they seemed interchangeable in service with the B-B Warships, of which there were 70.

 

I did enjoy watching a model D600 on a layout at Taunton yesterday. Across the hall, Chris Trerise (with a young lady) was manning his stall. He'd have loved to have had a pile of his version ready to sell!

[Clearwater]

This timetable debate will be but a storm in a tea cup once the samples show up and the crowd really gets stuck into alleged erroneous placement of grills, wipers, headcode boxes etc etc as nauseam.

 

I can see the posts now. "I know definitely had part x as I removed it with my screwdriver at Barry in June 75... you can see the difference between this photo here and here"

 

Personally, i like the quirky and am looking forward to it. Not seen any evidence the class went anywhere near the Midlands (unlike the bulleid diesels where the ever helpful Warwickshire railways provides photographic evidence) but heh ho. Order placed and paid for.

 

David

Edited May 1, 2017 by Clearwater

[Arthur]

 

He sold at least one yesterday Ian. I ordered one way back and paid for it upfront at Taunton, saves a tenner.

 

It'll arrive when it's ready, I've more than enough to keep me busy in the meantime.

 

.

[Oldddudders]

He sold at least one yesterday Ian. I ordered one way back and paid for it upfront at Taunton, saves a tenner.

It'll arrive when it's ready, I've more than enough to keep me busy in the meantime.

.

Salut, Arthur! Having a silly moment here thinking of Ark Royal shunting Staplegrove Steel Works!

[Kelly]

It will be nice to have these. They'll arrive when they arrive. The longer they take to soem extent the more chance of affording them really personally. Though I'm really more interested in the 1020x locos than these. 5 years ago it would have been laughed at suggesting these would be made by a RTR manufacturer/Retailer commission. So it is great to see.

 

Hopefully the 1020x locos will be popular enough someone will consider the 2000x locos too.

[Ian Hargrave]

Never doubted it, Clive. I intended my post to build upon yours. I saw all this class in service, and that's why I wonder how the model could be fundamental to anyone's layout strategy. There were few of them, they weren't particularly successful or reliable, and they seemed interchangeable in service with the B-B Warships, of which there were 70.

I did enjoy watching a model D600 on a layout at Taunton yesterday. Across the hall, Chris Trerise (with a young lady) was manning his stall. He'd have loved to have had a pile of his version ready to sell!

But they had two notable distinctions.They were the first WR mainline diesel (1) to fail ignominiously on first public duty (2).Thus henceforward hellishly difficult to spot.So I reckon that as a D601 cash upfront punter I'll be seeing a lot more of it now.It'll make a great statement at the head of a rake of choc & cream Mk 1's.Look forward to the day....

[Gwiwer]

But they had two notable distinctions.They were the first WR mainline diesel (1) to fail ignominiously on first public duty (2).Thus henceforward hellishly difficult to spot.So I reckon that as a D601 cash upfront punter I'll be seeing a lot more of it now.It'll make a great statement at the head of a rake of choc & cream Mk 1's.Look forward to the day....

 

They were unreliable along with many of their contemporaries.  That is one reason they became confined largely to Cornwall.  That also eliminated the need for many crews to sign them and cut the need for multiple depots to stock spares and maintain expertise for a small class which might or might not ever require attention there.

 

In common with other early diesel classes, some of which were even smaller, they have gained a following, largely since their demise, resulting in this project being launched.  Both Cornwall and diesel-hydraulics with large cast nameplates remain popular with modellers.

 

I was lucky to have seen them all and ridden behind at least one.  For London-based spotters and those from other parts of the country I can understand the frustration of never being able to find them, or the enthusiasm with which one might have been sighted as a rarity.  Just as might have been the case for those living away from the Brighton main line with the Raworth Boosters for example.

[No Decorum]

Hopefully the 1020x locos will be popular enough someone will consider the 2000x locos too.

Now there’s a little gem hidden in the debate. Let’s hope that Chris T has the stamina left for it.

[Waraqah]

 i n't BR  rop the 'D' from  iesel numbers after 11th August '68?  

 

Then just because  apol have  roppe  out of the project, we shoul n't have  ropped it from the topic content.  

 

As the topic says, it's the D600s.

Well sai , Mr. Char .

[Oldddudders]

Now there’s a little gem hidden in the debate. Let’s hope that Chris T has the stamina left for it.

He and his present supplier both have a can-do outlook, but even they can't do it all at once!

[bescotbeast]

I've had the Rail blue version on order since 2013 (I think)

[cctransuk]

People have short memories, who used to work for Dapol at the time this model was commissioned and who has taken the commission over from Dapol? I do not think it fair to blame Dapol or Kernow for the delay.

 

People who work(ed) for Dapol can (could) only work on the projects that Dapol management tell (told) them to work on.

 

Therein lies the back story to this much delayed project, I suspect.

 

Kernow are certainly not 'to blame' - but as to the other party?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[SRman]

Any work done for Dapol would remain with Dapol as their intellectual property, not transferrable without their specific agreement.

Any work or projects I develop for my employer (a state high school) remains their property, although there is nothing to stop me from developing similar ideas afresh.

[The Johnster]

Many years ago, there were only 2 4mm rtr manufacturers (and Trix chiselling away on the edges), Triang and Hornby Dublo.  They would bring out a catalogue every year, usually in time for the christmas rush, and that would be the first inkling of the introduction of a new model, TBA sometime in the following year.  No pre-orders, no news bulletins, no pre-release of artwork of CAD, no pre-production hand painted sample, you just waited for one to appear in the local dealer's window (he was as much in the dark as you were).  The models were made locally, in Margate or Liverpool, so there were no shipping delays and production problems were sorted on the spot.

 

It was tougher for the manufacturers as well, as they could not lay off some of the investment tied down while the model was in production and problems were no doubt cropping up and costing money to sort out by taking pre-orders and hoping that the punters had the patience not to cancel.  

 

Nowadays things are very different.  A much more demanding market insists on a far greater variety of models in a greater variety of liveries, and it is much more worthwhile to the manufacturers to whet the market's appetite before they even start work on the new item.  Kernow are a small outfit commissioning models for niche markets not satisfied by the mainstream, and probably doing as well as the big boys in terms of the time it takes them to get a model on the market after announcing it.  The difference these days is that it all takes place in the full gaze of the market, which comments on sites like this, not always favourably as their patience begins to wear thin a few years down the line.  What would happen if Kernow had simply released a D600 without prior announcement, I wonder?  Presumably those who could afford it and wanted one would have snapped up the first batch in a few days, and some of those would then appear on eBay for silly money.

 

I don't pre-order models, and am happy to wait for them to turn up in the shops where I can spend my money and not have to wait for my purchase to roll along when it feels like it, eventually.  I have been waiting over a year for a Baccy 4575 which they say is imminent, April/May, yeah right, and I think might turn up sometime later this year, and a 94xx which they promised me early this year in last year's catalogue, and which I am thinking is probably not going to appear in the flesh, I mean in the plastic, for at least another year and perhaps more.  Thinking of going s/h for the 4575, but I don't trust anything I cannot see running before I buy it...

 

You have to be philosophical.  When it's here, you can have one, but if it's not here, guess what, you can't have one yet!

Edited May 6, 2017 by The Johnster

[cctransuk]

Any work done for Dapol would remain with Dapol as their intellectual property, not transferrable without their specific agreement.

 

 

 

I gather that therein lay the problem - there was none !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.