Guest Phil Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 The simple thing is the r-t-r manufacturers can't make everything we want when we want it, their factories just aren't big enough and their accountants not that loose fingered with the investment cash. And equally now we have got used to 'hi-fi' locos and rolling stock we have, of course, got even more picky and are demanding ever more to that standard (but we then moan about the price). For 2010 Hornby have got something new, or greatly improved by radical rejeuvenation, for a wide section of the market; if you want it you'll buy it and if you don't you won't - both of those actions will send a message to their marketeers (and accountants) and influence what they are likely to do next, I can't wait for the 2011 Idle speculation to see how many I can get right next time round .[/i] What you say is right Mike - Hornby, Bachmann et al cannot possibly pander to every modellers whims. But as I set out in the "Hornby wagons" thread, I believe Bachmann have a far closer understanding of what the railway modeller wants and are progressively pitching through those wants. A few RMwebbers share my desire for ex LMS push-pull stock, and some on here might say "go get some Comet or 247 developments brass sides and build your own. I really don't I have the capability to finish and line the coaches as well as RTR models would be released, so I patiently wait. Maybe I am wrong but I am far more expectant of Bachmann, or Dapol delivering, rather than Hornby, Perhaps this is because Hornby appear to have settled to a large degree on the flashy express trains, rather the humdrum which Bachamnn more successfully typify. I not particularly convinced by the accountancy theory too much, simply because little engines cost less to develop and produce. So what was the last NEW 0-6-0 that Hornby produced - the 350hp diesel shunter ? What before that ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 CALEY JUMBO NOW! Sir, should you be desirous of initiating a loud and noisy thread on the matter, I will surely join you :icon_mrgreen: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersprinter156 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Hurrah a ScotRail Saltire class 156! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Well said Neal. How I agree with you on the toytown loco for the 175 anniversary.I'm insulted by Hornby doing that. I don't follow this line of thinking. The biggest market is toyland, not us. The media will probably be covering the GW celebrations in one form or another and the kiddies can share in the festivities by buying an innexpensive 'toytown' loco. But what you seem to have overlooked is the new Hornby GWR/BR 'Castle' is to carrry the name GREAT WESTERN. You can't expect parents to buy their little offspring a loco that is too complicated for a kiddies to place on the track. With my pro painters hat on, the GWR 1934-40 period was a dilemma for many customers, as it was the most popular period and yet no one liked the shirt button totem. So where possble, clients specified the pre-1934 full Great Western insignia. By the turn of the 21st Century, things had moved on and postwar GWR livery had become very popular. As regards, Scottish locomotives, why doesn't someone start a Scottish Consensus thread??? I started the shove for a GCR/LNER Class 04 2-8-0 in 2008, which was taken up shortly after by the 'LNER Consensus thread'. LNER modellers got their 04! Many of us had hoped a D11 would also transpire seeing as a variant was built by the LNER for Scotland. So to GWR, LMS, SR, and even LNER fans now, give your support to a part of Britian that has traditionally been poorly served by RTR manufacturers.... Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 CALEY JUMBO NOW! Dave. Shhh... can I finish the two in the loft first please ? My "half-built kits eclipsed by RTR" pile looks like Barry as it is - Std 4 2-6-0, Std 4 tank, Black 5, Ivatt 2MT, Clan, no doubt Std 2MT before too long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 CALEY JUMBO NOW! Sir, should you be desirous of initiating a loud and noisy thread on the matter, I will surely join you Is this not a subset of the plot to get organised and ensure that the small to medium sized 0-6-0 goods types make a strong showing in the next wishlist round? I don't care too much whether the loco chosen is a Jumbo, an ironclad, a little goods, a knick knack, or whatever, just that we get a few good models of these essential workhorses in RTR. Do we need a thread on the subject in 'musings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Do we need a thread on the subject in 'musings? I think a well thought out subject within there along the lines of the great LNER consensus would be appropriate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 As regards, Scottish locomotives, why doesn't someone start a Scottish Consensus thread??? 'cos we're defeatists by nature this side of the border? More seriously, other than pre-group stuff we've managed to get probably enough LMS/LNE standard types to give most of the country a fair stab. To improve matters, I suspect we'd be better served chasing improved B1, V1/V3, V2 and 2P/4P 4-4-0 types. And have much more chance of success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 So what was the last NEW 0-6-0 that Hornby produced - the 350hp diesel shunter ? What before that ? Would it be the Southern Railway's Q1 -- and a more utilitarian/hard-core freight/non-glamorous 0-6-0 would be difficult to imagine. I bought several, both to support the venture and because for me there's something rather captivating about their austerity lines. I recognise I'm in a minority, though, and the piles of unsold Q1s (and curtailed production) suggest there may be less enthusiasm for a product like that than the colourful and glamorous express types that seem to fly off the shelves. Doubtless someone will now explain why the Q1 was just the wrong choice of unglamorous 0-6-0 and how another class would have been the most profitable engine ever produced, if only Hornby weren't so utterly rubbish... Frankly I was amazed at the scale and audacity of Hornby's 2010 announcement, coming as it does in the middle of a vicious recession and after all the well-publicised difficulties in getting a reliable supply chain. And I thought their line-up was much closer to the wish-listing than anyone could have expected. Other than the manufacturers producing exactly what I want, right now, I struggle to see how they could be reasonably expected to do much more. And I've just seen a photo of a summer express on the M&GN with two Hawksworth coaches, so that's enough motivation for me to get, er, several. And I'm sure I can find an excuse for one or possibly even many B17s. And the days of a new LMS 3/4F can't be far away -- has anyone started the 2011 wishlist yet? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 .....the 38XX looks good, but will the 28XX be a new model or a recycling of their old tender driven model?.... It looks like the chassis is all new, and loco-driven for both 28xx and 2884 variations. You can probably spot the gearbox protruding forward from the firebox! Difficult to tell from the "taster" broadside photos, but it may be that there has been at least some re-tooling of the body to cater for the two different cabs, the fire-iron tunnel, the changes from "straight-drop" to "curved-drop" front footplate, and the two versions of motion support / boiler support bracket. Tender looks like the same one used on the "Grange". These will hopefully be useful models for those who concentrate on GW/BR(W) mainline - and a useful advance on the days of the old K's/Westward whitemetal kits. Will obviously be a lot quicker than building a Finney kit: 1. Open box 2. Remove polystrene packing. 3. "Oh....it's ready. Great!" 4. Place on track. 5. Apply power. 6. Errm......that's it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D605Eagle Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I not particularly convinced by the accountancy theory too much, simply because little engines cost less to develop and produce. So what was the last NEW 0-6-0 that Hornby produced - the 350hp diesel shunter ? What before that ? If your talking an 0-6-0 tender engine, I'm really struggling here. Did triang do a 3f in the 50's? I can't think of a pure triang/Hornby model since. (I forgot about the SR Q1!!!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I don't care too much whether the loco chosen is a Jumbo, an ironclad, a little goods, a knick knack, or whatever, ... If it's a knick knack, I only want the non-Belpaire version And I've just seen a photo of a summer express on the M&GN with two Hawksworth coaches, so that's enough motivation for me to get, er, several. Indeedy Could I perhaps persuade you to share a few details here?. There'll be a small sherry in it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 If your talking an 0-6-0 tender engine, I'm really struggling here. Did triang do a 3f in the 50's? I can't think of a pure triang/Hornby model since. (I forgot about the SR Q1!!!) The funny thing is, the Q1 has the same wheelbase as the LMS 4F, so it shouldn't be too difficult for Hornby to fit conventional spoked wheels and give it a decent 4F or 3F body.........Result, end of Tender-driven dinasuar! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Could I perhaps persuade you to share a few details here?. There'll be a small sherry in it. Me bad: p.67 of "The District Controller's View no.12: the M&GN" (Xpress Publishing, 2009, 978-1-901056-37-2) has a photo dated 7 August 1954 showing a 4F hauling a nine-coach Chesterfield-Yarmouth Beach service into Bourne. The leading two coaches are identified as "GWR non-corridor stock". Apologies for getting your hopes up. But Hawksworths are close enough for me... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I've just whizzed through the whole thread (with the aid of some bottled ale ) and it's interesting to see the spread of opinions on the new offerings from Margate . I can understand why some folk are miffed at specific releases appearing which don't fit into their modelling plans but I'd like to say a big 'well done' to Hornby for having the gumption to invest in ANY new tooling, and considering we're not out of the woods yet regarding the economic outlook, the chaps on the top floor must have had some tough decisions to make over the last eighteen months or so. The tooling for the Hawksworth coaches alone must have been colossal. I think sometimes we forget that this wonderful hobby of ours has so many specific 'strands' of interest, that we don't always see the woods for the trees. As for what's actually been announced, a lot of it has taken me by surpirse but all of it is welcome, especially the BW / WR stuff - I'll be putting my money where my mouth is when the Hawksworth stock is released (not least with that much wanted full brake!) and a 28xx will find a parking spot on the mantlepiece before too long. Those full brakes will be very useful for just about any BR layout from 1945 to the mid 70s : a quick dip into Dave Larkin's (Bradford Barton, 1978) 'BR General Parcels Rolling Stock - A Pictorial Survey' mentions the 1951 built batch W291W - W333W, with a photo of W326W in rail blue. W333W was also a blue survivor and I photographed it at Toddington yesterday. Must do some digging to see how many other blue BGs there were An earlier poster asked if the 28xx's ever made it into Cornwall..... again, the old faithful Bradford Bartons come to the rescue, 'GW Steam In Cornwall' has 2828 on a rake of vans between St. Erth and Marazion in May 1940. Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 The leading two coaches are identified as "GWR non-corridor stock". ...But Hawksworths are close enough for me... Thanks anyway Paul. It's not my strong point, but I think some GW design non-corridors were built for the LMR after nationalisation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 It's not my strong point, but I think some GW design non-corridors were built for the LMR after nationalisation Swindon built for LMR to pre-war diagram Lot 1479 of 1953 M16797-16841, and Lot 1772 of 1953 16842-76. 59ft 3?? inc long by 8ft 11ins wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Thanks to Nidge for the BR Blue BG observation, that surely means that they could have strayed anywhere in 1968, in which case that is a great addition to RTR parcels stock. Nice one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66540_ruby Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I notice there is another Grand Central buffet coach does this mean the other one was incorrect or is it just a new running number Thanks in advance. Craig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Thanks to Nidge for the BR Blue BG observation, that surely means that they could have strayed anywhere in 1968, in which case that is a great addition to RTR parcels stock. Nice one! That was just a 'quickie' Chard, I'm hoping to unearth some more examples with it being very quiet at work this week. There are plenty of pics in books showing hydraulics towing blue Hawksworth BGs, getting their numbers maybe a tad trickey but I'll keep digging anyway. Off the top of my head, the old Shrewsbury-York vans may have been a contender for spreading them around the system back in BR days, same goes for the Penzance-Crewe which ran into post hydraulic days too. The Larkin shot of W326W was taken at Lostock Hall, Lancs in 1971 and other pics in the book show various ex-GWR / WR parcels vans at Wisbech, Peterborough and York so you have 'em where you like! Was about to press 'send' when I found another pic.... in my hydraulic 'scrap book' theres a colour shot of 818 GLORY in blue passing Swindon on 8th May 1972 on the 6A27 Up Vans (probably Bristol-Old Oak), first vehicle is a fairly clean blue Hawksworth BG, with OHLE flash on the end, alas the number is too small to make out. (Behind it are a filthy collection of the usual suspects - Syphon G / LMS 50' / BR CCTs ). Nidge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2009 I don't follow this line of thinking. The biggest market is toyland, not us. The media will probably be covering the GW celebrations in one form or another and the kiddies can share in the festivities by buying an innexpensive 'toytown' loco. But what you seem to have overlooked is the new Hornby GWR/BR 'Castle' is to carrry the name GREAT WESTERN. You can't expect parents to buy their little offspring a loco that is too complicated for a kiddies to place on the track. With my pro painters hat on, the GWR 1934-40 period was a dilemma for many customers, as it was the most popular period and yet no one liked the shirt button totem. So where possble, clients specified the pre-1934 full Great Western insignia. By the turn of the 21st Century, things had moved on and postwar GWR livery had become very popular. Larry Larry I thought that the model was aimed at collectors not the kids.I'm sorry if thats the case but I don't think it will be inexpensive though.It will cost the same as a Bachmann pannier you watch. I quite agree with you when you get the pro painters hat on as thats the lvery I prefer myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB 34067 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I wanted that NSE VEP but its DCC Fitted where I am DCC Ready I was hoping for a Network rail livery Class 31 and set and I going to get that pullman bar this time before it gets sold out , dont know about the wrexham set yet. Wonder whats in the Bachmann 2010 range ATB James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretsquirrel Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Brilliant. Love it all!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Thanks to Nidge for the BR Blue BG observation, that surely means that they could have strayed anywhere in 1968, in which case that is a great addition to RTR parcels stock. Nice one! I'll second that, as I was wondering if any of the Hawksworth BGs made it into blue livery! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 28, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2009 I wanted that NSE VEP but its DCC Fitted where I am DCC Ready I was hoping for a Network rail livery Class 31 and set and I going to get that pullman bar this time before it gets sold out , dont know about the wrexham set yet. Wonder whats in the Bachmann 2010 range ATB James Its listed on retailers websites as available as both DCC and DCC ready thankfully! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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