Hattons Model Railways of Widnes (formerly Liverpool).

[Ian Hargrave]

Always have very good postal service from Hattons  

These days,Yodel seems the favoured option unless you expressly inform them you want Royal Mail.Agree with you about good service and there is always a quick response to any query.

[250BOB]

Agreee....that said,though,Hattons do offer an online chat option. Haven't actually used it myself,I hasten to add.I  think you mentioned going to Liverpool to collect yours,didn't you.A wise decision,I think,given possible gremlins with the actual model plus the fact that they use Yodel.

 

Yes, thats right Ian, a visit is planned to collect mine from Hattons when it arrives.  It will be coming out of the box, run on their test track ( DC of course ).......then if it is ok, home it will come to Uttoxeter.

 

Then it will be DCC fitted etc.,

 

It'll be a nice day out on the train with my pals too.....they have got mini shopping lists which they will collect at the same time.

 

Wish it would hurry up...!!!!

 

Bob.

[250BOB]

Don't think you can really compare those two! Hattons may be one of the biggest suppliers in a niche market, but they are still relatively a small company.

 

What i really meant was that I prefer to go in a shop and buy my stuff, rather than do mail order.....supporting your local shops as it were.

[Tony_S]

I like Hattons and I feel as if I'm supporting my local postman (and sometimes my very nice local Yodel chap). I had to phone Hattons to deal with a strange DCC problem with my Garratt. Everything about the return and replacement was very efficiently handled. 

Tony

[chris bales]

Reminds me of humphrey littleton on im sorry i haven't a clue.....

 

"Id better not upset the royal mail, they know where i live............although thay haven't shown much evidence of that yet!"

Prase is rare my friend Complaints are common; Found that funny through he is a big bloak

[robmcg]

Ordered a pre-owned item and it was packed on July 11. It arrived July 16 which is the fastest I have ever had anything travel from England to Canada.

 

This is the same sort of speed regularly achieved between Liverpool and New Zealand,  Royal Mail then NZ Post.  Smaller country and 'handling events' perhaps helps.

 

I have nothing but praise for Hattons in their website and (several hundred) sales over about 10 years. I have become dependent on the sound of a package landing on my doorstep!  There must be a pill of some kind....   heavily-weathered Garratt please.

[Kris]

Be warned. Hattons pre order price promise is not worth the paper that it is written on. 

 

I ordered a loco before the price rises and at the time Hattons were shouting out that they would honour the prices that they showed.

 

I have just received an email from them saying that this is not the case for this loco as Bachmann have withdraw the RRP.

 

This is very very poor. It only reinforces the view that I have that this is not a company to be trusted or believed. Their actions in this case speak louder than words.

[Kris]

Looks like there are people out there who believe that it is right and acceptable for a company to break a price promise. Makes it understandable why companies feel they can get away with it.

[Removed a/c]

As Bachmann have withdrawn the RRP i think they are well within their right to not honour the price.  They need to turn a profit and without an RRP they can't really set a price.  I think Hattons have always been open with the pricing. On the Bachmann DCC MKII they have an estimated price with a note saying they will contact if pricing changes allowing you to cancel your order.  They have also honoured items that have since had a price increase. 

 

Sounds like sour grapes if you ask me. 

[Andy Y]

I know it's been a tough one for them Kris necessitating reviews of their T&Cs as the unprecedented increases could have resulted in a significant loss on some lines. Most prices were historically calculated in good faith but the Marsh Atlantic struck me as a speculative price as a value was quoted long before Bachmann gave any indication of RRP.

[Kris]

Andy, maybe they need to withdraw their price promise then. Their actions in their email, prove this promise to be worthless, and meaningless. I will be contacting them tomorrow to tell them this.

[AngryMeerkat]

Looks like there are people out there who believe that it is right and acceptable for a company to break a price promise. Makes it understandable why companies feel they can get away with it.

A company who's price promise revolves around them not adjusting their own price based on stock or demand is one thing.

 

But when a manufacturer raise their prices by +/- 20% then that is out of the retailers control and quite rightly their price promise shouldn't stand. That 20% manufacturer increase could result in the retailer making a 10% LOSS on items sold if standing by a price promise often made long before an RRP is even announced by the manufacturer!

 

If you're not happy with this fine, shop elsewhere. I'd rather a retailer lost one customer who can't understand economics than went out of business for honouring a price promise that creates a loss that is out of their control.

 

Mark

[antrobuscp]

I received, last Friday, a similar email in relation to my pre-order for a Stanier "Crab". Given that Hattons have always previously honoured their pre-order prices - including the Porthole coaches - I was slightly surprised at the change. However, I had only ordered around the time that the price rises were becoming known and therefore I had half-expected that they would be revisiting the price. The Bachmann price increases were unexpected and unprecedented in their scale and I was surprised at Hattons not only standing by their price for the Porthole coaches, but giving us the chance to continue to order at that price for a further week, I think. Hattons have to protect their business long term and I won't be cancelling the order for the loco.

 

Maybe, as both an accountant and the son of parents who ran small shops, I may be slightly biased, but selling at a loss, except on a very limited basis, is not a way to survive.

 

I've bought from Hattons for 40+ years and for what they sell, I have found them the best to deal with. They are now the nearest model shop to me, and any(very few) problems have been dealt with quickly and effectively. 

 

Given the circumstances, I cannot see how the variation in prices can be held against them and it certainly does not make them untrustworthy or liars. Also, so far as I can see, they are still standing by their price promise for other items where there have been price rises but where the product is closer to release and, presumably, where there is still a quoted RRP.

 

I have no connection with Hattons other than as a satisfied customer.

 

To be honest, I think the "industry" has a problem looming over the way the manufacturers are headed with reduced quantity batch production. Overstating the point a little, we might effectively have to order in advance, a product unseen, to be delivered at an indeterminate time, the level of details and accuracy unknown, and at a variable price. I understand the reasons, but it's still a problem.

Edited August 13, 2014 by antrobuscp

[leopardml2341]

Overstating the point a little, we might effectively have to order in advance, a product unseen, to be delivered at an indeterminate time, the level of details and accuracy unknown, and at a variable price. I understand the reasons, but it's still a problem.

Don't 'some' manufacturers work on this premise already - no names

Edited August 13, 2014 by leopardml2341

[antrobuscp]

Don't 'some' manufacturers work on this premise already - no names

Yes, but it seems more likely now to become the norm.

[Downendian]

Hattons is my current favoured supplier, much of this has been down to fixed preorder pricing- and I've "saved" (think the oxymoron, the more you spend the more you save) a significant amount doing so. But I guess all good things come to an end. I don't think this immoral, just an economic fact of life- I couldn't see them making much profit from me with some of my preorders - New tooling Bachmann 40s for £62 for example. With longer production delays, Hattons profit margins will be squeezed tighter and tighter.

 

For me, now they won't now be automatically the first choice when placing a purchase, and I've started ordering stuff elsewhere, some close to Hattons prices on Heljan 47s were recently obtained from Hereford model centre for example. It's a free market, and we can shop elsewhere.

 

Neil

[Kris]

As a postscript to my comments yesterday I'll add the following. 

 

I didn't need the comments about economics, I quite understand the reasons for the price increases. 

 

My gripe is the fact that they have sold items using a promise (and encouraged customers to order when they knew that price rises were coming based on this promise), then reneged on that promise. 

 

I have contacted Hattons to tell them this, and how disappointing their actions are. I wasn't expecting to get them to change their policies, however I do believe that it is important to tell companies if they have short comings or if they have real positives. 

 

I will be keeping the orders open that I have with Hattons because I feel morally bound by the promise I made to buy these when I ordered them, but I will not use Hattons again and I would recommend that others think long and hard before ordering with them. 

 

I will shop with companies that have more open and honest price promises than Hattons. 

 

I'm not going to add any more on this, and I fully expect that some will disagree with my thoughts.

[melmerby]

Do not retailers place their orders with Bachmann/Hornby/ANYother based on the price they are originally quoted and the anticipated quantities they envisage they can sell at that price?

 

Much business is done on the basis of "I'll order X quantity at Y price to be delivered in Z months"

If the price was Y+25% the retailer might decide to buy 25% less.

 

The retailer may have calculated that a 25% increase in it's incoming goods prices makes the originally quantity nonviable.

 

My pre-order for a Hornby P2 (not from Hattons!) is still showing at the price quoted 12 months ago although the currently listed price is approaching 15% more!

 

Keith

 

Edited to make it clearer!

Edited August 14, 2014 by melmerby

[antrobuscp]

I don't know the terms that exist between the manufacturers and the shops but, I would expect it to be something along the lines that the goods are offered for sale to the trader at a unit price(which might vary with quantity). The trader orders what he wants, based on that price but in the knowledge that the price actually payable on delivery is almost certainly the price ruling at the date of despatch. The issue of pre-order prices having to be increased would not exist if the trader could order at a fixed price(or +/- an agreed allowable variation). Again, the problem would be much less likely to exist if the lead times from announcement to production were not so long. The risks of fixing pre-order prices have increased dramatically in the last 6-9 months.

[Free At Last]

I asked Hattons regarding the price increase of the Inspection Saloon and asked had they sold any at the original pre-order price as some on the relevant thread said they had not been charged any increase. They told me they had sold none at the original price of £42.50

[Downendian]

Well I was charged £42.50.

 

This is an automatic notification to inform you that we have processed your order for the following items:

 

1 * Bachmann Branchline 39-777 LMS 50ft Inspection Saloon BR Blue & Grey. Price is estimated - we will notify you if price rises and offer option to cancel @ £42.50 each = £42.50

 

Payment Type Amount

Payment Card £46.50

 

 

 

Goods cost ex VAT: £35.42

 

Goods VAT charged: £7.08

 

Royal Mail Tracked 2 day £4.00

 

Grand Total: £46.50

 

 

Neil

[reevesthecat]

Mine was also £42.50 according to my paperwork.

[antrobuscp]

On the other hand, I have certainly received notice that I will be charged an increased price for the BR Maroon version.

[antrobuscp]

Presumably the long lead times to delivery of new models and the production cost increases in China will mean more instances of RRP not being set until much later than hitherto. The consequence of this is going to be the withdrawal of price guarantees or at least a much clearer statement of when they apply and when they do not - the lack of which has really created the basis for Kris's original complaint.

 

I can see his point, but I also see how for many items Hattons have stood behind their guarantee(historically they always have, so far as I am aware) and I appreciate the unexpected and significant nature of the price hikes. Hattons have responded to the situation by showing estimated prices for some items. I would suggest to them that these become guaranteed at some point once the supplier has set a selling price, but that might require significant changes to software to handle that automatically and correctly.

 

For the above reasons, my personal take on the situation is that Hattons have had little choice other than to withdraw the guarantee in certain circumstances and that they will have thought carefully about the possible effect on their business. I would suggest, and I haven't looked today,. that they do place on the website a clear statement of their policy which only yesterday still gave the unequivocal guarantee stated in the past. That may, of course, still be correct provided all adjustments have now been made, and all estimated prices are now flagged.    

[Bernard Lamb]

As a postscript to my comments yesterday I'll add the following. 

 

 

 

My gripe is the fact that they have sold items using a promise (and encouraged customers to order when they knew that price rises were coming based on this promise), then reneged on that promise. 

 

 

Show me the contract that you have with Hattons and I am sure I can find a Solicitor who will take up you case.

Have you paid for the items?

If not you have not bought them.

Hattons have not sold you any thing. They have offered a chance to buy when the products are available.

They have an easy get out if you push your luck, by telling you that they are no longer available, and that they are unable to supply the items that you ordered.

Would you rather pay more or would you rather be told that the items are not available?

You could look rather silly if they had sold out else where.

Hattons sent me an email regarding certain items, apologising for a situation that is out of their control.

They offered me the chance to say yes or no to the new price, but where unable to confirm a price at this stage.

I call that excellent service.

Nobody likes to pay more but that is the way of the world.

I do not agree with the disagree button so I will spell it out.

I had a client at one time who always argued about prices.

One day he phoned me wanting some very rare steel sections.

I located some and gave him a price.

He argued.

I told him that he had until 9.30 next morning and then the price would go up drastically.

He said you cannot do that.

I told him he could not get the sections else where for at least six months so I could charge him what I liked.

He phoned the MD.

Better not upset Bernard or you will regret it was the response.

There is a time to moan and a time to hold your self in check.

With all the uncertainties in the hobby I reckon it is currently time for the latter.

Bernard