Roco Z21

[Harsh51186]

Also can anyone suggest some shops or websites for Hornby, Heljan and Bachmann which will ship locomotives to Germany?

[PaulRhB]

It sounds more like the decoder than Z21, I've found certain loco makes don't like certain decoders and the poor running happens on the NCE dcc system too. I couldn't get slow or smooth running with Bachmann decoders in the Hornby 153 but it's fine with a dcc concepts decoder. Have you got acceleration in to smooth out the steps as I found this a major issue with lgb decoders too because they were using 14 speed steps.

 

Don't go too off topic on this as the thread's on Z21 and you'll find better advice in other parts of RMweb on where to buy

Hattons itself is a good bet for shipping internationally and broad range of makes.

Edited November 29, 2016 by PaulRhB

[Harsh51186]

It sounds more like the decoder than Z21, I've found certain loco makes don't like certain decoders and the poor running happens on the NCE dcc system too. I couldn't get slow or smooth running with Bachmann decoders in the Hornby 153 but it's fine with a dcc concepts decoder. Have you got acceleration in to smooth out the steps as I found this a major issue with lgb decoders too because they were using 14 speed steps.

 

Don't go too off topic on this as the thread's on Z21 and you'll find better advice in other parts of RMweb on where to buy

Hattons itself is a good bet for shipping internationally and broad range of makes.

Thank you for your reply.

I have set speed steps to 128. 

Put the 50 on the programming track and read CV30. In the manual, if supported, will be a list of error codes. If there is no list (i.e. CV30 is not supported), start by carefully looking at the seating of the decoder, remove and reseat if required.

 

Your remaining questions do NOT belong in this thread, please ask them elsewhere.

Thank you for reply.

I will do it and see.

[Dogmatix]

Also can anyone suggest some shops or websites for Hornby, Heljan and Bachmann which will ship locomotives to Germany?

 

Kernow, Hattons and Gaugemaster have shipped to me here in Germany; I imagine most dealers do.

[Harsh51186]

Kernow, Hattons and Gaugemaster have shipped to me here in Germany; I imagine most dealers do.

Thank you Dogmatix.

[Harsh51186]

Hi Guyz,

I am facing running problem with my Hornby class 50. I have some Radius 1 curves on my layout, I know its not recommended to run class 50 on such tight radius but i have no choice.

My problem is, when I run class 50 on very slow speed it gets even more slower on curves. In my opinion that is acceptable as radius 1 is not recommended but this happens even with 35-40% throttle. Also approximately at 75% throttle locomotive reaches its maximum speed. I was wondering this could be the issue of decoder and not class 50. As I was facing jerky movement in its acceleration. I had to set EMF function off to overcome this. Now it runs and accelerates as it should be. I have Roco z21 start & decoder in class 50 is from Hatton's own. 

Can anyone suggest how can i resolve the running issue on curves? also with throttle and speed range?

Thank you.

[PaulRhB]

Harsh, this isn't Z21 related it's the decoder reacting to the motor load. Please put these questions in the DCC section, you'll get more help too, as it dilutes the info on the Z21 system itself and is off topic.

Edited December 4, 2016 by PaulRhB

[Andy Y]

Hi Guyz,

I am facing running problem with my Hornby class 50. I have some Radius 1 curves on my layout, I know its not recommended to run class 50 on such tight radius but i have no choice.

My problem is, when I run class 50 on very slow speed it gets even more slower on curves. In my opinion that is acceptable as radius 1 is not recommended but this happens even with 35-40% throttle. Also approximately at 75% throttle locomotive reaches its maximum speed. I was wondering this could be the issue of decoder and not class 50. As I was facing jerky movement in its acceleration. I had to set EMF function off to overcome this. Now it runs and accelerates as it should be. I have Roco z21 start & decoder in class 50 is from Hatton's own. 

Can anyone suggest how can i resolve the running issue on curves? also with throttle and speed range?

Thank you.

 

Yes; please repost the question as a new topic in the DCC questions area.

[Dogmatix]

According to the Roco website, the Roco WLAN Maus (10813) is now due week 6 of 2017 (week commencing 6 February) So much for Christmas....

Edited December 5, 2016 by Dogmatix

[Tim V]

I'm beginning to wonder....

[clecklewyke]

I will be using a Z21 system when friends come round for an operating session. Each will bring his own smart phone to use as a controller. 

 

My question is: once locos have been programmed into the system will all smart phones be able to pick up their details, without having to program each smart phone separately?

 

Apologies if this has be answered before.

 

Ian

[PaulRhB]

Once it's created on one phone the others just need to download the app and import the file from yours.

Basically use the option in setup to send the file from the original phone and select import on the menu on their phone. It then transfers it over and you just select it in the layout menu. If it's not obvious ask and one of us will do a step by step

 

A&H models have done a series of helpful videos that may answer a lot of questions.

http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-z21-10820-part-1-basic-introduction-1093-c.asp

 

http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/roco-dcc-1081-c.asp

Edited December 7, 2016 by PaulRhB

[PaulRhB]

Ian, we have actually covered it on a previous page, I knew I had written it down some where.

This should take you direct to the post a few pages back.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/63888-roco-z21/?p=2336119

[clecklewyke]

Ian, we have actually covered it on a previous page, I knew I had written it down some where.

This should take you direct to the post a few pages back.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/63888-roco-z21/?p=2336119

 

Many thanks, Paul. I'm expecting a Z21 as a Christmas present so am only just starting to think more deeply about how it will work in my environment - a main line terminus to fiddle yard, which can be operated by me alone but which has scope for three signalmen and three drivers. I will expect "the boys" round once a month or so for a proper session and they will be bringing their own smart phones etc. (saves me splashing out on expensive controllers which I will not normally use).

 

If anyone lives in the Wensleydale area and would like to join in please let me know.

 

Ian

[RailCom_Fan]

I understand that this thread has been running for over 4 years now (Since 07/Nov/2012), but I have just joined and I am wondering if anyone is still having issues with all the Networking stuff.

 

IMHO, it is really straightforward to get it all working, with everything connected together, and with everything able to reach the Internet.

 

What you need to know is really straightforward, when explained without just Technical terms like Subnets and Subnet Masks.

 

The harder part comes when you want your PC on your Home Network to talk to your Train Network.  But, even that is doable, because the Router supplied with the Z21 has all the features required to do everything you want/need.  And when you understand how it all works, you have one of those 'Ah Hah' moment.

 

 

This is how my network is set up:

 

If you would like to be able to do this too, just reply in this thread, and I will write it up for everyone.

 

[RailCom_Fan]

There's no need for that, Roco already described it in a document on the Z21 website. But as several other things you've addressed, this target audience is really a minority, down to individual level even.

I'm fairly familiar with the documents written in English available for download from the Z21 website (http://www.z21.eu/en/Downloads), and I don't recall seeing anything like you describe that shows 2 Routers & 2 Networks connected together.

 

There is a Router Configuration document written in German (http://www.z21.eu/en/content/download/623/4854/file/Z21%20Router%20Konfiguration.pdf), however this doesn't show 2 Routers & 2 Networks connected together, so is obviously not the document you are referring to.

 

Likewise, I don't recall anyone in this thread being referred to the Z21 website for the required information to connect their 2 Routers together (Most advice is not to do that), which could make it harder to be able to update the software on the Z21, and the devices used to act as Throttles for the Z21.

 

Anyway, I'm glad everyone has all the information they need.

[Pete22]

Merry Xmas All,

 

Can anyone please advise what the 1 and 0 numbers (and the other information shown in the photo) means in the Points Configuration settings, as per the attached photo.

I hope to set up a Peco 3 way point (insulfrog). This point has 2 SEEP motors attached, and I had it set up & working well previously with my Elite + Hornby R8247 accessory decoders, so as far as I remember the 2 SEEPS were powered from 2 of the decoder output ports.

#3 I think must mean = port 3 (therefore motor 3), and #4 must mean port 4 & motor 4. Why are there not 4 possibilities shown for the motors, as each could be in a left or right state ?

Totally lost .......

Peter...

[Nigelcliffe]

The picture is assuming two motors powering the three-way turnout.   There are two motors, numbers 3 and 4 allocated to this 3-way turnout. 

 

The "1" and "0" are the possible states for each motor, equivalent to Left/Right or  Thrown/Closed.  

 

The rows show the possible directions through the turnout, there are three of them. 

For each row, pick the states of each motor required.  

 

And, as D_M said, the fourth state would be illegal, and thus never happens.   (Or it's a state which doesn't matter, in which case, one of the three defined will cover it). 

 

 

-  Nigel

[Pete22]

The picture is assuming two motors powering the three-way turnout.   There are two motors, numbers 3 and 4 allocated to this 3-way turnout. 

 

The "1" and "0" are the possible states for each motor, equivalent to Left/Right or  Thrown/Closed.  

 

The rows show the possible directions through the turnout, there are three of them. 

For each row, pick the states of each motor required.  

And, as D_M said, the fourth state would be illegal, and thus never happens.   (Or it's a state which doesn't matter, in which case, one of the three defined will cover it). 

 

 

-  Nigel

 

Thanks Dutch & Nigel for very quick replies...

I will go out to the shed tonight to view the points (again) and to get my mind round this some more. From memory (with the Peco 3 way), the centre point blades need to be repositioned back to centre route before the point can be made to route in another direction, or the blades will try to move the other set of blades as well - not good for the points !

Thanks again,

Pete..

[Pete22]

The picture is assuming two motors powering the three-way turnout.   There are two motors, numbers 3 and 4 allocated to this 3-way turnout. 

 

The "1" and "0" are the possible states for each motor, equivalent to Left/Right or  Thrown/Closed.  

 

The rows show the possible directions through the turnout, there are three of them. 

For each row, pick the states of each motor required.  

 

And, as D_M said, the fourth state would be illegal, and thus never happens.   (Or it's a state which doesn't matter, in which case, one of the three defined will cover it). 

 

 

-  Nigel

 

Nigel, All,

 

Does anyone use the three way point icon in the app to control Peco SL99 three way points (or similar) ??

I am having big problems getting this icon to work correctly and I think I have now tried most permutations, so if anyone can tell me what settings/configurations actually do work,  I would be most grateful.

When using the standard configuration settings as in the photo above, the motor / port number 3 works left & right perfectly, but motor 4 does nothing (but I do hear a slight feint click from motor 3 although motor 4 should have fired - strange.

To prove things, I tried controlling a different set of 3 way points which use a different decoder and address's, but I still got the same results i.e the same route (most forward motor) would not work, but the other motor would give a feint click, same as experienced in my first test.

​To prove things further, I deleted the 3 way icon and replaced it with 2 standard points to represent the 3 way point- bingo !!! both motors work as they should !.

I tried re-instating the 3 way icon tonight, and played about with various settings, and did manage to get the number 4 port/motor working, but only if I disable the settings for number 3 motor first.

I am beginning to think that there is a problem in the software concerning the 3 way point icon - OR there is some kind of conflict in the settings that I am using.

 

N.B. All my layout points were addressed originally using my Hornby Elite & Railmaster. When I changed to using my Z21, I just created some point icons starting at 1 and did not need to make any changes, so the previous addresses do seem to work ...

 

If anyone can help, or post their own 3 way point settings that would be great.

 

Pete...

Equipment - Roco Z21 Black, Hornby R8247 Accessory Decoders.

[PaulRhB]

One suspicion is that the Z21 is trying to do the two motors so fast there's no enough left to trigger the second motor as these are solenoid point motors?

I had a look in the configuration and it is sending a pulse to both motors at once due to the overlapping switch rails. This is supported by them working ok independently.

It's probably not actually a Z21 fault as you find this with other systems too and it's the decoder that can't change two points at once. There may be something in the decoder settings to delay the second pulse to give it time to recharge or you can get a decoder designed to fire multiple points at once which has more power than the Hornby one. There are various threads about decoders that won't change both ends of a crossover in similar circumstances.

Edit: R8247 will power two of hornbys own solenoid motors at once but the Hornby points don't have the strong spring of the Peco points so I suspect the extra 'umph' taken by the stronger Peco construction is draining it too much to fire a second Peco motor. It says in this thread Hornby only recommend changing one point at a time even though it supports four addresses.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48860-Hornby-r8247-point-decoder-driving-2-points-per-outputpossible/

Edited January 23, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Pete22]

Hi Paul, - thanks for valuable reply.....

All my point motors are SEEP's, however I have 2 pairs of points that fire successfully using the same output port on the Hornby decoders. So, once fully charged, the Hornby R8247's do pack enough punch to move 2 motors at once.

However, if they are not allowed to fully re-charge, they will not be able to fire another point (or pair of points). The recharge time is about 3 to 4 seconds. Does this "fit" with your thoughts on my issue ?

You say :- "I had a look in the configuration and it is sending a pulse to both motors at once due to the overlapping switch rails. This is supported by them working ok independently."  are you referring to the photo above that I posted above, as from what I can see the configuration commands are separate and I don't see anything asking for both motors to fire together !!, OR , are you able to look at the software behind the 3 way point icon ?? Presumably the Z21 would be sending a signal from one port to the first point motor, the immediately another signal to the second port / motor ?.

 

The Hornby R8247 decoders can be programmed to allow an output firing time from 0.1 seconds to permanently on, but Hornby say (just phoned them) that the time between firing each port cannot be delayed.

 

Would it be useful if I separate the 2 motors and change the addresses, so that each is powered from a different decoder, - thereby allocating full power state to each motor & command (just to prove things further ) ??

[PaulRhB]

Hi Paul, - thanks for valuable reply.....

All my point motors are SEEP's, however I have 2 pairs of points that fire successfully using the same output port on the Hornby decoders. So, once fully charged, the Hornby R8247's do pack enough punch to move 2 motors at once.

However, if they are not allowed to fully re-charge, they will not be able to fire another point (or pair of points). The recharge time is about 3 to 4 seconds. Does this "fit" with your thoughts on my issue ?

 

Yes they may be capable in ideal conditions but one or both of the SEEP's you're using may be pulling a fraction more current and defeating it

 

 

You say :- "I had a look in the configuration and it is sending a pulse to both motors at once due to the overlapping switch rails. This is supported by them working ok independently."  are you referring to the photo above that I posted above, as from what I can see the configuration commands are separate and I don't see anything asking for both motors to fire together !!, OR , are you able to look at the software behind the 3 way point icon ?? Presumably the Z21 would be sending a signal from one port to the first point motor, the immediately another signal to the second port / motor ?.

 

No I'm looking at the same image and it is sending the pulse , (#3 is point motor address 3, #4 is point motor address 4) 

for route 1 it sends:- 0 to #3 and 0 to #4

 

for route 2 it sends:- 0 to #3 and 1 to #4

 

for route 3 it sends:- 1 to #3 and 0 to #4

 

 

Would it be useful if I separate the 2 motors and change the addresses, so that each is powered from a different decoder, - thereby allocating full power state to each motor & command (just to prove things further ) ??

Yes as you tried before it will work. The Hornby decoder may be capable in some cases but something here is taking a bit too much power and Hornby cover themselves by saying it should be one at a time

[Pete22]

Hi Paul,

 

Bingo ! - the 3 way point icon works when I address & power both motors from seperate decoders !! - what a relief, as thought the icon/software was at fault.

 

So, what to do now....? I am thinking maybe I should consider changing my Hornby decoders for another type to overcome this, and so that I can successfully set up routes in the near future. I assume that the slow recharge time of the Hornby decoders could cause issues with routes involving 3 or 4 points - unless the Z21 software can be made to issue it's decoder commands more slowly, but I don't know if this is possible.

 

Can you suggest any suitable alternative accessory decoders that will work well with my Z21 & Seep points ?

 

Many thanks once again.

Pete.

[PaulRhB]

Temeraire used the DCC concepts ADS2 and ADS8 decoders for solenoids on Tidworth and said they are simple to wire up. Read up on them or ask Ian in his thread here as I think those are Seep motors

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82864-tidworth-nse-circa-1990/page-5