Wright writes.....

[Mike 84C]

6911 a Banbury engine and a good one too!  Wish I had a £ for every shovel of coal I put into its firebox and cleaned it!  I thought it had a welded tender in the '60's as I do not remember cleaning around rivets. I expect to be proved wrong! It was 60yrs ago!

  It was one of a little group of Halls at Banbury kept fairly clean for the Bournmouth's  6906,6911,6951,6952 and 7912 were the ones I recall. The improved draughting ones always seemed a bit better steaming than the earlier Halls.

[St Enodoc]

17 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

6911 a Banbury engine

Penzance in the 1950s.

[LNER4479]

Brockenhurst in the 1960s (pointing towards Banbury, I believe)

 

(Taken by my late stepfather; now part of the MLS collection. Low-res reference image only. Please respect copyright)

[John Tomlinson]

14 hours ago, Leander said:

Sandra, Tony Sheffield's Rail On-line photo site has a couple of B&W photos of 11164 in 1957, taken at Darnall. Early crest but I'd wager they show a green loco.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p580086503/h16069339#h16069339

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p580086503/h16069339#h901caa5

 

 The shot before on this site shows 11140, by contrast this one is clearly black, and 11164 is green as you say.

 

John.

Edited August 8, 2022 by John Tomlinson
typo

[MJI]

Latest lining finds.

 

Due to availabiltiy I have bought some Model Master lining off online shops due to broken MM site.

 

The lining for Crimson Cream is fine, but for maroon is only the lower line.

 

I don't get on with HMRS lining, and these were easy to order.

 

The MM sheet for maroon does not include the upper above window yellow black line.

I am going to have to cut off one yellow.

 

Luckily only 3 carriages to do.

 

 

[cctransuk]

7 minutes ago, MJI said:

Latest lining finds.

 

Due to availabiltiy I have bought some Model Master lining off online shops due to broken MM site.

 

The lining for Crimson Cream is fine, but for maroon is only the lower line.

 

I don't get on with HMRS lining, and these were easy to order.

 

The MM sheet for maroon does not include the upper above window yellow black line.

I am going to have to cut off one yellow.

 

Luckily only 3 carriages to do.

 

 

 

I think that you have overlooked the fact that the upper line on the maroon livery is identical to both lines on the crimson / cream and chocolate / cream liveries.

 

Whilst we are on the subject, my Sheet BL28 provides an A5 sheet of exact scale, waterslide lining for crimson/ cream, chocolate / cream and maroon liveries.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[MJI]

The crimson cream set is more gold than yellow, I did check first.

 

They did use a goldy colour first before they went yellow.

 

Anyway only 3 I will lop off one yellow for now.

 

Most are plain and unlined so easy.

 

I tried a lining pen but just made a mess.

[MJI]

21 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that you have overlooked the fact that the upper line on the maroon livery is identical to both lines on the crimson / cream and chocolate / cream liveries.

 

Whilst we are on the subject, my Sheet BL28 provides an A5 sheet of exact scale, waterslide lining for crimson/ cream, chocolate / cream and maroon liveries.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

 

 

Got a lot more Crimson Cream to line, unless I start on Mark 1s then I will need more.

 

Done similar before so SHOULD be OK.

 

And yes I still need to order some wagon transfers

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, MJI said:

The crimson cream set is more gold than yellow, I did check first.

 

They did use a goldy colour first before they went yellow.

 

Anyway only 3 I will lop off one yellow for now.

 

Most are plain and unlined so easy.

 

I tried a lining pen but just made a mess.

 

I've not seen any evidence that the lining of crimson / cream coaches was ever changed in colour. (Though the early plum / spilt milk etc. experimental liveries may have used gold lining).

 

Straw cream / yellow, sometimes referred to in other applications as Old Gold, is what I recall and what I produce.

 

CJI.

[MJI]

The MM CC is straw/gold and black

 

The maroon is yellow black yellow, and looks like photos of preserved stock.

 

My main lining though is white between the blue and grey.

 

I have more repainted Airfix aircons than i do maroon and crimson cream for my 60s line.

 

3 mainline BR sets (just aircon) vs 4 x 2 or 3 car sets and 1 x 4 or 5 car set.

 

I must have gone through 10 packs of 4MM4485

[TrevorP1]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Penzance in the 1950s.

 

4 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

6911 a Banbury engine and a good one too!  Wish I had a £ for every shovel of coal I put into its firebox and cleaned it!  I thought it had a welded tender in the '60's as I do not remember cleaning around rivets. I expect to be proved wrong! It was 60yrs ago!

  It was one of a little group of Halls at Banbury kept fairly clean for the Bournmouth's  6906,6911,6951,6952 and 7912 were the ones I recall. The improved draughting ones always seemed a bit better steaming than the earlier Halls.

 

I have several photos of 6911 in The Duchy but as it was also a  Banbury engine kept for the Bournemouth runs it must be in my cop books somewhere from my spotting days at Southampton Central. It definitely earns it's place on my train set!

 

Correction. I've just looked and 6911 appears in at least one of my books. 😀 

Edited August 8, 2022 by TrevorP1
To add something.

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for all the comments and info with regard to HOLKER HALL. 

 

I 'copped' it at Shrewsbury in 1960/1961.

[Tony Wright]

More Hall shots from the archives.............

 

 

 

The DJH Hall built/painted/weathered by Tony Geary, which came my way to sell for CRUK. 

 

 

 

Every loco I build is guaranteed for the rest of my life, and last year 6911 came back for adjustment. All it really needed was a clean, oil and a tweak to the pick-ups, and away she went. 

 

Is no one interested in buying her?

 

 

From a few years ago, I can't remember who brought this Hall to run on LB. I don't even know if it's kit-built or modified RTR.

 

Sandra Orpen popped by today to collect her B17. We both agreed that potential prices for kit-built locos are severely dented when there's an RTR equivalent. Apparently, very acceptable RTR Halls can be picked up for under £100.00, which makes a (decent) kit-built one appear expensive in comparison. But, anyone can have an RTR Hall. 

 

Finally...........

 

 

I'm glad I'm a better model-maker now than a photographer back in the day!

 

 

[Barry Ten]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Every loco I build is guaranteed for the rest of my life, and last year 6911 came back for adjustment. All it really needed was a clean, oil and a tweak to the pick-ups, and away she went. 

 

Is no one interested in buying her?

 

How feasible do you think it would be to do a motor swap, Tony? I could put the non-DCC compatible motor to use in another loco provided I could get it out without undue complications. Is it a motor/gearbox set-up  that could be removed whole?

 

Al

[robertcwp]

22 hours ago, sandra said:

Hello Tony,

 

Thanks so much for the B17, it looks marvellous, I can’t wait to try it on the Boat Train. Can you also thank Lee for providing a much better body. I will of course have to repaint it in BR green. It is to become 61657 Doncaster Rovers. In 1957 that was the only B17 with a 4,200 gallon tender allocated to March and I do have a couple of photos of it on the Boat Train. 
 

On an entirely different subject, as I know the readers of this thread are extremely knowledgeable, I wonder if I could ask for some advice.

This is an 05 shunted which whilst shedded at Darnall has found itself at Retford. I intend to number it as 11164 and the intention was to paint it black with an early crest. However Andrew Hartshorne has let me have colour photos of two of its sisters 11165 and 11167. Both photos show the locos painted green but with the early crest and according to the captions both photos were taken in 1957 which is of course the year in which Retford is set.

 

So the question is what colour do I paint it? I had assumed that all shunters with the early crest and before they were renumbered with a ‘D’ prefix were black. Obviously they were not but would 11164 have been green or black in the summer of 1957?

 

I must emphasise that I did not build this loco but perhaps Tony would like to describe its provenance. I can say that it’s a superb runner.

Sandra

 

The Strathwood book on diesel shunters comments that the second batch, which included 11164, was outshopped in green.  There is a colour photo of one of the batch in green in the book and it is clear from other photos that the change to green livery preceded the change to D numbers.

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

How feasible do you think it would be to do a motor swap, Tony? I could put the non-DCC compatible motor to use in another loco provided I could get it out without undue complications. Is it a motor/gearbox set-up  that could be removed whole?

 

Al

Good morning Al,

 

I've told a lie! My memory isn't what it was. 

 

The Hall has actually got a can motor (DCC-compatible). If you're thinking of buying it please PM me immediately, because I think someone else might be interested; I don't want a repeat of what happened a year or so go.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Rather good news!

 

The Hall featured earlier has now sold - for more than I originally asked. Great, since all proceeds go to CRUK.

 

Interest was originally slow, so I offered it to someone at a lower price yesterday, but received no response. And today, someone else has now bought it! 

 

This produces a potentially difficult situation. Unless someone responds straight away, I assume they're 'not bothered' (difficult, I know, because they might be busy elsewhere), but I want to make as much for the charity as possible; which I've now done.

 

Thanks Al!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Rather good news!

 

The Hall featured earlier has now sold - for more than I originally asked. Great, since all proceeds go to CRUK.

 

Interest was originally slow, so I offered it to someone at a lower price yesterday, but received no response. And today, someone else has now bought it! 

 

This produces a potentially difficult situation. Unless someone responds straight away, I assume they're 'not bothered' (difficult, I know, because they might be busy elsewhere), but I want to make as much for the charity as possible; which I've now done.

 

Thanks Al!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

As long as you stipulate with sales that it's first to confirm then there shouldn't be any issues.

[Tony Wright]

43 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

As long as you stipulate with sales that it's first to confirm then there shouldn't be any issues.

Thanks Rich,

 

There are no issues, and both parties are happy. One's delighted he's got the Hall and the other wasn't too bothered, anyway. 

 

The 'winner', of course, is CRUK. So, thanks again to Ron Smallshire for donating the loco, to Al for buying it and to John for his  understanding. 

 

I try to indicate the situations to all, and do my best to establish a chronology, but with messages coming in from RMweb, by phone (on occasions) and/or email, it's not always possible to get it dead right - as happened in the past. Thankfully, most are very understanding; if they miss-out, it's a shrug of the shoulders, no more. 

 

I'll be posting a list of loco kits I'll have for sale later this week. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[polybear]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

This produces a potentially difficult situation. Unless someone responds straight away, I assume they're 'not bothered' (difficult, I know, because they might be busy elsewhere), but I want to make as much for the charity as possible; which I've now done.

 

 

Hi Tony,

I'd view it in the same way as something being sold in a CRUK Charity Shop - if a customer comes in and sees something they'd like but then decide to go in the Cafe next door for a cuppa and ponder the decision, only to come back half an hour later to discover it's been sold then that's life.

And yes, I've been there and done that - though I 've yet to come across any very nice (or even very nasty for that matter) kit-built locos in a Charity Shop.  I live in hope though....

[robertcwp]

On 08/08/2022 at 18:17, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Sandra Orpen popped by today to collect her B17. We both agreed that potential prices for kit-built locos are severely dented when there's an RTR equivalent. Apparently, very acceptable RTR Halls can be picked up for under £100.00, which makes a (decent) kit-built one appear expensive in comparison. But, anyone can have an RTR Hall. 

 

 

My Holker Hall, which was bought as 6937 Conyngham Hall, cost just under £80 in January 2022. I forget how much the nameplates cost but think it was between £10 and £20, so the whole lot was under £100. It will shift a 10' long train of RTR stock, which is more than I need it to do. Interestingly, back in 2005, my 6937 Conyngham Hall cost £69.25 new. It was from the first batch of Halls made by Bachmann and still runs well. Well-built kit locos have their advantages but the market must be small where there is a good RTR one.

 

Even on Retford, modified and re-gauged Hornby A4s have shifted the Elizabethan without any great difficulty although some other RTR types struggle on long trains.

Edited August 9, 2022 by robertcwp
Typo.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

My Holker Hall, which was bought as 6937 Conyngham Hall, cost just under £80 in January 2022. I forget how much the nameplates cost but think it was between £10 and £20, so the whole lot was under £100. It will shift a 10' long train of RTR stock, which is more than I need it to do. Interestingly, back in 2005, my 6937 Conyngham Hall cost £69.25 new. It was from the first batch of Halls made by Bachmann and still runs well. Well-built kit locos have their advantages but the market must be small where there is a good RTR one.

 

Even on Retford, modified and re-gauged Hornby A4s have shifted the Elizabethan without any great difficulty although some other RTR types struggle on long trains.

Good evening Robert,

 

I agree, the market for kit-built locos is relatively small, especially when there is a good RTR equivalent. Factor in that many kit-built locos are not made particularly well; they might look 'pretty' in a glass case, but ask them to run, around curves, pulling heavy trains, and it's a different matter. 

 

Still, if a kit-built loco has a decent 'provenance', is well-made, runs well and has a proper pro' paint job, then some find its sort more 'desirable' than an RTR equivalent. And, as I say, anyone can have an RTR loco.

 

The question of haulage capacity frequently comes up. I can only comment on my own findings. A few weeks ago, Tom Foster and one of his friends came over, and we operated LB. On one occasion, one of my kit-built A2s just romped away with 14 kit-built, metal bogies. The one Bachmann A2 I still possess (which I detailed/altered and Tom weathered for me), though looking very nice, just polished the rails! Yes, I know that's a bit of an extreme, but RTR steam-outline locos are really of little use to me; unless it's a Bachmann 9F. I hope you're still happy with the one I swopped with you for a DJH one.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Robert,

 

I agree, the market for kit-built locos is relatively small, especially when there is a good RTR equivalent. Factor in that many kit-built locos are not made particularly well; they might look 'pretty' in a glass case, but ask them to run, around curves, pulling heavy trains, and it's a different matter. 

 

Still, if a kit-built loco has a decent 'provenance', is well-made, runs well and has a proper pro' paint job, then some find its sort more 'desirable' than an RTR equivalent. And, as I say, anyone can have an RTR loco.

 

The question of haulage capacity frequently comes up. I can only comment on my own findings. A few weeks ago, Tom Foster and one of his friends came over, and we operated LB. On one occasion, one of my kit-built A2s just romped away with 14 kit-built, metal bogies. The one Bachmann A2 I still possess (which I detailed/altered and Tom weathered for me), though looking very nice, just polished the rails! Yes, I know that's a bit of an extreme, but RTR steam-outline locos are really of little use to me; unless it's a Bachmann 9F. I hope you're still happy with the one I swopped with you for a DJH one.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

The 9F runs very well thanks and much better than the DJH one you had in exchange, which I acquired second hand many years ago. The main issue I have with kit-built locos, and why all except a couple have gone, is that they are usually not built to be able to handle Peco slips, which are very tight, and some cannot handle the 2' 6" inside radius of the curved points. I don't need engines to be able to pull 14 kit-built carriages as the maximum length I run is eight or nine usually. I suspect that most modellers who have long, heavy, kit-built trains also have kit-built engines for them. The mass market is different to that and also very different to the sort of layout I have.

[Atso]

On the subject of weight, may I please share my progress on my N gauge O2 build?

 

 

The current state of the locomotive with its test weights fitted. These are made out of tungsten rods and took three diamond cutting discs and a hammer to cut/break to the required length! The chassis is milled brass and the wheels are 3D printed and pressed onto steel tires.

 

 

 

Slightly earlier photographs showing the 7mm motor and gear train. The chassis was placed on some old Farish wheels at this stage for testing. The gears are also Farish spares (from a 4F) and freely rotate on brass pins soldered to on side of the chassis. The gear reduction is a smidge under 70:1.

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

The 9F runs very well thanks and much better than the DJH one you had in exchange, which I acquired second hand many years ago. The main issue I have with kit-built locos, and why all except a couple have gone, is that they are usually not built to be able to handle Peco slips, which are very tight, and some cannot handle the 2' 6" inside radius of the curved points. I don't need engines to be able to pull 14 kit-built carriages as the maximum length I run is eight or nine usually. I suspect that most modellers who have long, heavy, kit-built trains also have kit-built engines for them. The mass market is different to that and also very different to the sort of layout I have.

I run 14 coach trains with some (admittedly not all) heavy kit built coaches. All my modern RTR Pacifics handle these OK on the level, although sometimes I need to add a little weight. The better kit built locos find it easier with less wheel slip on starting but it’s only a fairly marginal improvement.

 

I celebrate a well made white metal or brass kit for what it is - a beautiful piece of workmanship and something different from the norm. But I don’t think it’s justified by its pulling power.

Edited August 10, 2022 by thegreenhowards