Wright writes.....

[gr.king]

As I've seen a set of the printed fancy handrails in the raw state, before painting, I suspect that those are the printed type on the Barnum model in the picture. I also had doubts about the thickness, especially with the need to add paint, and had doubts about their strength, so I have opted to make up my own from wire and handrail knobs for my own two additional Barnum models. I'd like to say that mine are not far from being finished now, but experience tells me that the length of time needed to complete them will be at least twice my current worst estimate...

 

Of course, the ready-printed fancy handrails save a lot of time and  frustration compared to forming up the equivalent in brass wire, to the same standard. I'll be interested to know how easily others get them to fit, and how well they survive handling.

 

I believe the solebars, headstocks and buffer stocks should be plain teak-brown rather than black.

Edited July 30, 2022 by gr.king

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I don't know the prototype, so I might be talking out of my hat, but the grab rails look a little chunky.

They are John,

 

And both Alan and Martin are aware of this. 

 

In fairness, because they're 3D-printed items (and separate), to make them to 'scale' would result in such fragility that they'd be effectively useless. 

 

Making them from brass (or obtaining etchings?) would be the way to go. I'm glad I chose one to model where the elaborate rails had been replaced. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

In a 'layout' setting. Are those handrails less obtrusive?

 

 

Perhaps not..............

 

I still like it, though. 

[Bucoops]

Perhaps an ideal candidate for lost wax castings?

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

n fairness, because they're 3D-printed items (and separate), to make them to 'scale' would result in such fragility that they'd be effectively useless. 

 

The problem is that the material/process used to make these items is inappropriate. It's a bit like trying to make something in white metal instead of brass. 

[Tony Wright]

23 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Perhaps an ideal candidate for lost wax castings?

Perhaps?

 

Though, how much of a market would there be to make the prospect economically-viable? As far as I know, such elaborate handrails were unique to the 'Barnums'. Someone mentioned etches (from Dan Pinnock?), but these would be flat, not rounded (though, once fitted, who would notice?); are they still available?

 

It could be that making them from brass wire gives the best representation (though it's fiddly and time-consuming), as Graeme King has illustrated.

 

I cheated, of course, making much simpler ones (based on an example in engineering use)......

 

 

 

 

The chances are that my model is inaccurate with regard to the handrails (the elaborate one were probably replaced when this carriage became part of the engineers' fleet), but, as I've said on many occasions, its use will be as a 'layout carriage'. One as part of a fleet of well over 200, mostly made/modified by me. 

 

Though, strictly-speaking, it would have been withdrawn from revenue-earning service by 1958, I'm happy to use it on Little Bytham. 

 

If anyone wants a 'Barnum' (or other GC corridor stock).........

 

 

This is definitely a way to go.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

[micklner]

Sorry !!

The Elaborate handrails look like a couple of Bonio Dog Biscuits, not helpe by being so obvious on the Teak background.

 

The other simpler correct when "in use" version is a much easier to make , use two handrail knobs and .045mm Brass wire. There are photos already on here , of that in use version.

Tony's version is Departmental use only, I believe?.

[gr.king]

22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

If anyone wants a 'Barnum' (or other GC corridor stock).........

 

 

This is definitely a way to go.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I did note that the prospect of some of the other 60' matchboard stock had been mentioned, and the proof of progress contained in that image is very interesting. I'd like some examples, if they are fully "right", leaving no possible need for the "finisher" to consider extensive surface preparation, or re-working/improving the basic printed item (just adding the teak livery and the loose fittings represents enough work), and of course, providing that they don't give my funds a severe pounding.

Edited July 31, 2022 by gr.king

[A Murphy]

I would be very interested in matchboard suburban stock......

 

Alastair

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, gr.king said:

I did note that the prospect of some of the other 60 matchboard stock had been mentioned, and the proof of progress contained in that image is very interesting. I'd like some examples, if they are fully "right", leaving no possible need for the "finisher" to consider extensive surface preparation, or re-working/improving the basic printed item (just adding the teak livery and the loose fittings represents enough work), and of course, providing that they doesn't give my funds a severe pounding.

Good evening Graeme,

 

The picture of the 60' stock shows the 'prototype' print; in other words, not perfect.

 

However, the 'production' runs should be fine. That said, it takes 17 hours to print a coach body like that, and the failure rate can be quite problematic. Temperature tolerances are particular sensitive. Still, when the prints are right, they're very impressive. Sub-standard ones are scrap. Unfortunately, the resin cannot be re-used.

 

I don't think they can be classed as 'kits' in the usual definition of such things - the body, ends and roof are one piece, which includes buffer stocks and roof detail. The bogies are one piece, as is the underframe (other than trussing). What I did note in building the 'Barnum' was that surface 'preparation' was unnecessary - no rubbing down and what have you. This 3D-printing stuff is certainly getting better (my recent Isinglass TPO-build proves that), proving that it's complementary to 'established' building techniques. 

 

Is 3D-printing for me? In the 'grand scheme' of things probably not. What I've done so far has been test-builds or reviews. Which include......

 

 

An Isinglass pigeon van.

 

 

And the already-mentioned Isinglass TPO. 

 

 

And, a pair of Mike Trice V2 (bodies), which Geoff Haynes painted. 

 

All entirely suitable as 'layout items', but I still prefer soldering.

 

All the above have featured in BRM. As will the 'Barnum'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Iain.d]

This morning I was able to take some images of a Comet Coaches LMS D1966 Articulated TO+TO pairing that I recently completed.  I think they’ve gone together quite well and that the paint job is one of my better ones! Here are the main components before assembly; while I try quite hard to make the interiors as tidy as possible, they always seem quite scruffy – not that it really matters as no one really sees those bits when it’s altogether, but at least I know it’s okay.

 

 

And the bodies and roofs:

 

 

And altogether:

 

 

Its built very much as the kit came, I connected the two vehicles together with an old 8BA(ish) sized bolt soldered to the top coupling plate but on tidying up the kit’s box and leftover fretwork, I found a rather nice shiny shouldered bolt and nut, I guess that was the one I was supposed to use! I used microscope slip cover glass for the windows rather than the supplied clear plastic sheet. It’s sprayed with Tamiya Maroon TS-11 and varnished with a couple of coats of Vallejo Mecha Satin. The roofs are Vallejo Model Air dark grey, varnished with MIG Ultra Matt Lucky Varnish. I'll paint up some passengers and drop them in at a later date.

 

In the mean time I’ve done most of the preparation work on this Comet Coaches LMS D1720A Brake Corridor Composite:

 

 

And this Comet Coaches LMS D1791 PII Corridor Composite:

 

 

Both of these will be finished in BR maroon and will form the two vehicles for Liverpool section of a Pines Express set that I’m putting together.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

[Tony Wright]

More 3D-printing...............

 

 

I was given this LNER Refrigerator Van by Alan Rose when he brought his 'Barnum' round to be photographed. 

 

It was a bit of a 'scrapper', but I tidied up the all-white paintwork (some of the sprayed paint had filled in the detail), numbered, lettered it and weathered it. Yes, it's all one piece (apart from my couplings). 

 

I must learn to treat this resin-based material more-kindly!

 

 

Fitting in the wheels, this whole axle box just snapped off, losing some of the spring detail. Superglue secured it again, but it is so brittle. Some of the cross-rigging and part of a brake lever went as well - lost forever on my workshop floor! I should really have tried to reinstate the missing pieces with bits of plastic, but I won't be keeping this model, and in a fast-moving train? 

 

One other thing; Henceforth, I'm now giving up with the HMRS 'Pressfix' transfers. I used a new sheet, and the backing (or fronting?) paper refused to budge, even several minutes after soaking. There was plenty of 'stick' on the transfers, but the only way I could shift the paper was pull at it with a brush (soaked in water) and tweezers, meaning the numbers/letters lost their positions and had to be pushed back in place once the paper had come off. In the past, I've positioned them, wet the paper and, 30 seconds later, the paper has just floated off. Trying to push the letters into the right place has resulted in their being crooked in places (see 'VENTILATED'). It is incredibly frustrating.

 

I know this has been mentioned before, but the HMRS transfers are not what they once were, at least not in my experience. I state this with sadness, as a past-President of the Society, but I'll be using their transfers no more. What has happened, I wonder?

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Tony Wright

[chris p bacon]

Resin 3D is very good at detail, but for W irons is just not the right material. I'm experimenting with 3D PLA (plastic) for various van bodies, but still using etched under frames and brake gear.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

Resin 3D is very good at detail, but for W irons is just not the right material. I'm experimenting with 3D PLA (plastic) for various van bodies, but still using etched under frames and brake gear.

I agree.

 

The Refrigerator Van has 'dimples' inside the axle boxes, which take standard-length pinpoint axles. But, to get the pinpoints in, one has to stretch out the 'boxes, and that's where one snapped off. 

 

Cast metal, etched metal and polystyrene plastic all allow this stretching out to take place without trouble; not so 3D-printed resin. That said, the wheelsets popped into the Barnum's bogies with ease.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Willie Whizz]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

…

One other thing; Henceforth, I'm now giving up with the HMRS 'Pressfix' transfers. I used a new sheet, and the backing (or fronting?) paper refused to budge, even several minutes after soaking. There was plenty of 'stick' on the transfers, but the only way I could shift the paper was pull at it with a brush (soaked in water) and tweezers, meaning the numbers/letters lost their positions and had to be pushed back in place once the paper had come off. In the past, I've positioned them, wet the paper and, 30 seconds later, the paper has just floated off. Trying to push the letters into the right place has resulted in their being crooked in places (see 'VENTILATED'). It is incredibly frustrating.

 

I know this has been mentioned before, but the HMRS transfers are not what they once were, at least not in my experience. I state this with sadness, as a past-President of the Society, but I'll be using their transfers no more. What has happened, I wonder?

 

 

Even getting hold of them has been distinctly problematical for a couple of years or so.  There have been various explanations of why, but I saw something a couple of months back suggesting there was  little or no likelihood of new stocks any time soon. Getting what I needed from other sources was feasible but involved three separate sheets from two suppliers, so not exactly as cost-effective as the HMRS ones. 
 

On the subject of 3D printed carriages, I’ve just taken delivery of one from Isinglass, as a late birthday present from my son. He had to chase-up delivery and was told the body was “curing” under ultra-violet light and the timings and results could be unpredictable. The resulting kit looks very promising though, and I cannot see there will be much need for surface preparation. Looking forward to having a go, therefore, though it will have to wait a few weeks before I can make a start. 
 

A sobering thought that it is now over 20 years since in the course of my banking job I saw an early example of “rapid prototyping” using this process. I could see

the potential at once and approved the loan that was being requested - but even now after all this time we can hardly seem to call it a ‘mature technology’ yet. 

 

[MJI]

4 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Resin 3D is very good at detail, but for W irons is just not the right material. I'm experimenting with 3D PLA (plastic) for various van bodies, but still using etched under frames and brake gear.

I downloaded LMS hoppers 50% success rate on chassis.

 

1 exploded only drilling for bearings.

 

WHEN i get round to my BR WR van and open. They will sit on Parkside underframes.

[billbedford]

11 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Resin 3D is very good at detail, but for W irons is just not the right material. I'm experimenting with 3D PLA (plastic) for various van bodies, but still using etched under frames and brake gear.

 

Rubbish. You are just not using the right resin. 

[DougN]

18 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 Some of the cross-rigging and part of a brake lever went as well - lost forever on my workshop floor! 

 

I am doing well with the floor god at the moment. Last night I sat down with a  LNER G6 I am building... (why I just cant get enthused with the V2's I have no idea.)  I sat down at the work table and promptly knocked the safety valve casting on to the floor with my sleeve,  any how the desk lamp moved to the floor.... broom out to try and see where the floor god had placed it... no luck...  Time to kneel to the floor god... other than a lot of dog hair, off cuts of white metal I knocked over on Friday night... no sign.  So I went on with some more of the kit... Time reveals all I was thinking. Dinner was called, so I thought I'll try one more trick, moving my stock draw (on casters of course, Ikea Alex units) Only to have a buffer housing which I lost to the floor god about 3 years ago appear! Winner! 

 

As Sunday nights, we usually as a family, watch some TV together, as others will know having 2 kids in the final years of school, (one final yr12, one yr11) we don't see every one together too much! I left the loco looking bereft of castings on a shelf, not wanting to provide more offerings moving from the modelling room to the living room.

 

Then, as it was time to go to bed, I thought it would be worth asking the floor god if they would be generous last thing. The sneeky little so and so had pushed over some books, which I picked up, and the casting promptly dropped out of the top of the book!   So out of all the goings on I am up one buffer housing and I can complete the castings on the G6! 

 

Why as modellers we have to work on only the from 150mm of the work table and provide at least one offering to the floor god per session I have no idea! 

 

Once the G6 is further advanced I'll pop up a couple of photos! 

 

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

Rubbish. You are just not using the right resin. 

Good morning Bill,

 

So, was the 'wrong' resin used on that Refrigerator Van? Or, is it my clumsiness which caused the axle box/'W'-iron to break off when inserting the wheels?

 

I have no idea what type of resin was used, but every model I've built using the material (some cast resin, some 3D-printed resin) has displayed the same characteristics - that of being extremely brittle and showing a susceptibility to crack/break. Of course, this could be down to my inherent clumsiness, and, I concede, it's probably not the medium for me; especially since every resin model I've built, I've managed to break in some way - your ex-GNR non-gangwayed Brake Third, three carriages/vans from Isinglass, two V2s from Graeme King, two V2s from Mike Trice, the Barnum and the Refrigerator Van.  That said, all have been relatively easily repaired and completed.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[chris p bacon]

11 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

Rubbish. You are just not using the right resin. 

 

Thank you for your polite, interesting and supportive reply.  I'll rephrase my post for you so it is more informative. 

 

Having built many 3D printed models from several manufacturers (including yourself) and in various resins, my experience so far has been that for some tasks where a degree of flexibility is required, it hasn't been suitable.  I personally prefer to use an etched under frame, it is more robust and the brake gear etc is nearer to scale.

 

 

[Chas Levin]

6 hours ago, DougN said:

 

I am doing well with the floor god at the moment. Last night I sat down with a  LNER G6 I am building... (why I just cant get enthused with the V2's I have no idea.)  I sat down at the work table and promptly knocked the safety valve casting on to the floor with my sleeve,  any how the desk lamp moved to the floor.... broom out to try and see where the floor god had placed it... no luck...  Time to kneel to the floor god... other than a lot of dog hair, off cuts of white metal I knocked over on Friday night... no sign.  So I went on with some more of the kit... Time reveals all I was thinking. Dinner was called, so I thought I'll try one more trick, moving my stock draw (on casters of course, Ikea Alex units) Only to have a buffer housing which I lost to the floor god about 3 years ago appear! Winner! 

 

As Sunday nights, we usually as a family, watch some TV together, as others will know having 2 kids in the final years of school, (one final yr12, one yr11) we don't see every one together too much! I left the loco looking bereft of castings on a shelf, not wanting to provide more offerings moving from the modelling room to the living room.

 

Then, as it was time to go to bed, I thought it would be worth asking the floor god if they would be generous last thing. The sneeky little so and so had pushed over some books, which I picked up, and the casting promptly dropped out of the top of the book!   So out of all the goings on I am up one buffer housing and I can complete the castings on the G6! 

 

Why as modellers we have to work on only the from 150mm of the work table and provide at least one offering to the floor god per session I have no idea! 

 

Once the G6 is further advanced I'll pop up a couple of photos! 

 

Nice job Doug! 

I pinged an Alan Gibson buffer spring off onto a red background patterned carpet a few days ago and was likewise smiled upon by the floor gods: it only took me a mere 20 minutes to find it!

[Steven B]

The 2mm Scale Association has over twenty types of axle-box and spring arrangements for fitting onto W-Irons - Shop 2, part numbers 2-430 onwards:

http://2mm.org.uk/products/shops.php?shop_num=2

 

All have photos of actual 3d prints, very nice they look to.

 

As ever, its the case of using the right material for the right part. There are plenty of 3d printable and casting resins available that are flexible and strong enough to use for complete underframes. Whether or not the designer or scratch-builder decides to use them is a different matter - no different to the days when kits had parts in cast white metal that would have been better produced in lost-wax castings or an etch.

 

Steven B.

[jrg1]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Nice job Doug! 

I pinged an Alan Gibson buffer spring off onto a red background patterned carpet a few days ago and was likewise smiled upon by the floor gods: it only took me a mere 20 minutes to find it!

Please help me find the assortment of carbon motor brushes that disappeared into the 4th dimension in my last workshop.

[billbedford]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Having built many 3D printed models from several manufacturers (including yourself) and in various resins, my experience so far has been that for some tasks where a degree of flexibility is required, it hasn't been suitable.  I personally prefer to use an etched under frame, it is more robust and the brake gear etc is nearer to scale.

 

A few years ago Rails of Sheffield introduced a SECR goods van that was 3D printed. I believe a few thousand were produced. I have not noticed RMWeb being filled with complaints about bits of this model were any more likely to break or fall off than normal injection moulded RTR models. 

 

This leads me to believe that your attitude to resin should be up dated. 

[Northmoor]

26 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Nice job Doug! 

I pinged an Alan Gibson buffer spring off onto a red background patterned carpet a few days ago and was likewise smiled upon by the floor gods: it only took me a mere 20 minutes to find it!

I recall that motor racing teams sometimes start their weekends at the circuit by thoroughly cleaning and painting the floor of the garage with quick-dry paint.  It can save so much time finding that small circlip that pinged off over there somewhere, when you can just lie on the floor and look across it.