Wright writes.....

[great central]

9 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I wonder if the assembled expertise of those who follow this thread might be able to identify the odd, tank-like loads on some of the wagons in this train, please?

 

92095_Charwelton by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Closer view:

92095_Charwelton_crop by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

It looks as though Charwelton has already been rationalised by the date of the image, so possibly mid-1960s not long before closure of the GC London Extension as a through route.

 

92095 was one of the original Annesley batch obtained to run the 'Windcutters/Runners' paired with the ER standard BR1F tender. According to the Book of the 9Fs, published by Irwell(?) a couple of them lost their original tenders for other types late in the day of Annesley depot. There's a copy in the club library but as I'm 150 miles away at the moment perhaps someone else has a copy and could confirm?

Also the top lamp bracket has been moved to the side of the smokebox which again suggests, as you say, mid 60s.

[jrg1]

15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Richard,

 

My work will be 'neater' after more of the soldered seams have been properly tidied up. Because of the kit's design, the smokebox/boiler/firebox assembly has to be soldered to the 'aerofoil'-shaped footplate from the outside, necessitating a fair bit of cleaning up once fixed. The top parts are ready-formed (quite well), and fit together relatively easily, soldered from the inside. The footplate curve is dictated by the valance strip, which is incredibly flimsy and thin. Having now built (at least the bodywork) three Pro-Scale A4s, I've never managed to fix the strips on entirely to my satisfaction. They bow and cockle under soldering heat, much more so than the footplate, though that can go out of shape when heated. I've had to resort to part-replacement of the valance strips (at the rear end) with appropriate-sized, square-section brass/nickel silver stock; much more robust. 

 

The following pictures illustrate the flimsiness of those valances............

 

 

Certainly not a perfect aerofoil-shape, especially beneath the firebox/cab.

 

 

Possibly better on this side?

 

 

A bit of a 'wobble' here at the rear (note the 'bent' reversing rod as well - the result of exhibition handling).

 

 

This side seems to be worse in both cases. 

 

Ian Rathbone painted both these A4s. 

 

I think Scottish Eric made a neater job with his Pro-Scale A4..........

 

 

He's also incorporated the flexible screen between the cab roof's rear and the tender's frontplate.

 

 

The cabsides are also incredibly flimsy in the state seen in my picture of yesterday. The next job will be to detail the cab and get the roof on ASAP.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Perhaps an area that would be ideal for a resistance soldering unit.

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, great central said:

 

92095 was one of the original Annesley batch obtained to run the 'Windcutters/Runners' paired with the ER standard BR1F tender. According to the Book of the 9Fs, published by Irwell(?) a couple of them lost their original tenders for other types late in the day of Annesley depot. There's a copy in the club library but as I'm 150 miles away at the moment perhaps someone else has a copy and could confirm?

Also the top lamp bracket has been moved to the side of the smokebox which again suggests, as you say, mid 60s.

Per the RCTS book, 92095 gained a 1G tender 9/64 and was reallocated from Annesley to Kirkby in Ashfield 6/65. So, that probably narrows down the date quite a bit.

[Roger Sunderland]

11 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I wonder if the assembled expertise of those who follow this thread might be able to identify the odd, tank-like loads on some of the wagons in this train, please?

 

92095_Charwelton by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Closer view:

92095_Charwelton_crop by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

It looks as though Charwelton has already been rationalised by the date of the image, so possibly mid-1960s not long before closure of the GC London Extension as a through route.

Possibly large septic tanks Robert.

[robertcwp]

23 minutes ago, Roger Sunderland said:

Possibly large septic tanks Robert.

Could be - looks to be two spherical tanks on each low-loader:

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by robertcwp

[jwealleans]

Interesting what different eyes see - I see one tank on each wagon, with 3 top outlets and two sets of retaining chains on each tank.

[robertcwp]

1 minute ago, jwealleans said:

Interesting what different eyes see - I see one tank on each wagon, with 3 top outlets and two sets of retaining chains on each tank.

Could be that!

[Chuffer Davies]

1 minute ago, jwealleans said:

Interesting what different eyes see - I see one tank on each wagon, with 3 top outlets and two sets of retaining chains on each tank.

Yep, that was my thoughts as well. 

[Bucoops]

Filling station forecourt tanks perhaps?

[robertcwp]

This is as good as it gets in terms of the image:

 

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

Not long ago I bought a batch of 50 wagons from the auction of a deceased estate in NSW. They comprised a range of mostly kit built NER and LNWR wagons to EM Gauge. Easy to change the gauge to OO. There were a lot of D&S, 51L or David Geen models amongst them. Including postage they worked out at $5.62 or ~ £3 ea. Another local BRMA member bought a batch of 75 wagons from the estate, interestingly all OO. He wanted the horse boxes in that batch in particular. He was aiming to build up a train or two of pre grouping wagons so was very willing to swap a range of pre-group wagons from my batch for some of his. I gained a D&S Dia 87 LNER Milk Van, Dia 5 Horsebox, NE Road Van, L&Y CCT, a pair of D&S GN ballast wagons, Jidenco LMS Cement wagon as well as few others. I was willing to swap two of mine for each of his but no he was happy with one for one swaps.  They all need some work - the brass models in particular will need to have their paint stripped and fine details fitted better. The only two I've worked on so far are the two GN ballast wagons which were built but unpainted. I needed to remove a bit of excess low melt solder and finish them off. I had been looking for one of those for while to add to my engineering train but to get two was great!

 

The main cost to me will be the time so most have gone into a drawer for when I have time or need a particular wagon/van to add to a train.

 

That's what I consider to be budget modelling.  

 

Here are the two GN ballast wagons. they'll need to be weathered in due course.

 

Andrew 

Good afternoon Andrew,

 

I think what you've cited qualify perfectly as 'budget modelling'. I think the main point is that one doesn't factor in one's modelling time at a cost.

 

Regarding the likes of the A1 I showed yesterday (and the one below), were I to get it to run to my satisfaction and then re-sell it, it would probably be beyond many a 'budget'. I don't mind checking/cleaning/adjusting/oiling all the locos I have to sell on on behalf of surviving family members (asking no fee), but not a complete strip-down, and, in some cases, a new drive. 

 

 

This DJH A1 needed a new power unit. From a deceased modeller's collection, I sold it to Geoff West for £150.00 (because of its noisy and not-smooth running). He tidied it up a bit, detailed and weathered it, but found he couldn't live with the racket. Thus, I bought it back off him (for £150.00) and installed a new motor/gearbox. That sounds easy; however, the drivers have to come off, which means (at least in part) dismantling the motion (to be later re-assembled) and probable (as was the case here) alterations to the frames. The new drive cost in the region of £80.00, meaning a total parts cost of £230.00. Were I to factor in the cost of my time (and Geoff's), and then try to sell it on, it would certainly not be 'budget modelling', other than it would still be a lot less than if I were commissioned to build an A1 from a new kit (and have it professionally-painted). 

 

But, because I'm keeping this one (and 60118), it's certainly within my budget, even though it's probably more than an RTR equivalent. As long as a modeller has the time, the resources and the 'skill' to undertake mechanical 'rebuilds' of kit-built locos, then there are plenty of opportunities out there for acquiring decent items; especially as so many 'professionally-built' locos don't run anywhere near as well as they look. 

 

Finally, may I ask, are tension-locks your preferred coupling?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Tony Wright
By the time I'd finished typing this, it had passed noon!

[cctransuk]

16 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I wonder if the assembled expertise of those who follow this thread might be able to identify the odd, tank-like loads on some of the wagons in this train, please?

 

 

Having been involved in the excavation of fuel tanks from a filling station forecourt; (an operation bogged down in H&S regulations); I'd guess that they are petrol / diesel tanks. The number of filler / breather pipes on the top bears this out.

 

CJI.

[Woodcock29]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Finally, may I ask, are tension-locks your preferred coupling?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes they are - the small ones. Bachmann seem to be the best.  I've too much stock to change to anything else now. I do have dedicated goods stock for running on the Spirsby exhibition layout which are fitted with Kadees. Coaching stock and locos used on that have NEM pockets so I can temporarily fit Kadees instead of tension lock.

Andrew

[Keith Turbutt]

23 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Richard,

 

I think you're right regarding the A4s' valances. 

 

Looking at pictures of locos in works prior to shopping, every separate component seems to have the individual loco's number stencilled on to them. A4s' cladding, in particular, needed this because bits from another probably wouldn't fit. 

 

In a way, I like the Pro-Scale A4's style of construction. It does introduce the odd anomaly; a bend/buckle/cockle/dent here and there. I don't mean that to excuse shoddy building, but it's clearly been 'made by hand'; not some plastic perfection from the other side of the globe.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony,

 

For the soldering of  the Proscale A4 footplate could this be a job for an RSU? The parts could be tinned and the heat applied externally with the RSU. The heat could be directed more accurately and the joint kept kleen.

Having said that I still have to try it myself !

 

ISTR that you mentioned way back that the Proscale tender should have a beading strip along the top of the tender side panel (below the curve) to correctly represent a 1928 one.

 

Cheers

Keith

 

Ah  I missed the post above and see the RSU has already been suggested!

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Keith Turbutt
Just noticed previous posting

[Michael Edge]

9 minutes ago, Keith Turbutt said:

 

 

For the soldering of  the Proscale A4 footplate could this be a job for an RSU? The parts could be tinned and the heat applied externally with the RSU. The heat could be directed more accurately and the joint kept kleen.

Having said that I still have to try it myself !

 

You can do this with a large iron applied to the underside of the footplate but there will still be a fair bit of cleaning up to do. With regard to the flimsy footplate angle and slot/tab fixing of this under the footplate, I've never managed to solder one up without heat distortion - the worst thing is that the outside edge of the footplate (outside the slots) expands sideways with the heat and of course won't go back. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Hi Tony,

 

For the soldering of  the Proscale A4 footplate could this be a job for an RSU? The parts could be tinned and the heat applied externally with the RSU. The heat could be directed more accurately and the joint kept kleen.

Having said that I still have to try it myself !

 

ISTR that you mentioned way back that the Proscale tender should have a beading strip along the top of the tender side panel (below the curve) to correctly represent a 1928 one.

 

Cheers

Keith

 

Ah  I missed the post above and see the RSU has already been suggested!

 

Good evening Keith,

 

The only thing I've made with an RSU is a mess! John Redrup of LRM kindly let me borrow one to test for BRM; I handed it back with the apologies of an incompetent. 

 

No RSU and no huge iron has got me his far............

 

 

Most joints have been reasonably-well tidied up now. My 'trick' for fixing the base of the cladding to the footplate is to tin both components with 145 degree solder. Then (at the same time as cheerfully burning fingers and thumb as they apply pressure) I use low melt. I place a series of small blobs of the stuff along the joint, flood the whole lot with flux, crank the 60 Watt iron up to 300 degrees, then draw the iron along. The low melt flashes-in and leaves a lovely 'meniscus' as it cools; meaning cleaning up is minimised. Yes, the joint isn't as strong as an all-145 seam, but it's not under any pressure once set. 

 

The Pro-Scale tender is neither one thing nor the other. It has no beading at source, yet has a flat back. GANNET towed a 1928 corridor tender, so I'll just solder on the beading (as I did with 60024's tender). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

23 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

Good evening Tony,

 

Yes I am in agreement, original WC/BB and MN also suffered from the "hand built" look that, as you suggest, just doesn't work with a plastic moulding. I seem to remember someone covering a Hornby WC moulding with very thin brass sheet to create that "lived in" look. I might have a go at that myself.

 

To extend the point a bit further. Most cab side sheeting had imperfections created by manufacture, damage, poor re-assembly after repair etc. I guess though the area is so much smaller so we can, perhaps, let that pass?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Good evening Richard,

 

The problem with attempting to replicate the cockles and ripples in an original Bulleid Pacific's casing is that it can often look like bad building.

 

 

When I made MORTEHOE from a Crownline kit, the method of fixing the the thin, etched overlays over the pierced sub-structure with solder caused those overlays to buckle slightly (just visible in places in this raking shot). Ian Rathbone's superlative painting rendered it perfectly. A 'happy accident'!

 

In contrast...........

 

 

Hornby's latest (Hornby Dublo) original MN with a die-cast body is just about 'perfect'. Too perfect? 

 

In many respects the poor RTR manufacturers cannot win.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Bucoops]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Richard,

 

The problem with attempting to replicate the cockles and ripples in an original Bulleid Pacific's casing is that it can often look like bad building.

 

 

When I made MORTEHOE from a Crownline kit, the method of fixing the the thin, etched overlays over the pierced sub-structure with solder caused those overlays to buckle slightly (just visible in places in this raking shot). Ian Rathbone's superlative painting rendered it perfectly. A 'happy accident'!

 

In contrast...........

 

 

Hornby's latest (Hornby Dublo) original MN with a die-cast body is just about 'perfect'. Too perfect? 

 

In many respects the poor RTR manufacturers cannot win.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

The top one definitely looks more natural.

 

As you may recall Tony, you assisted me in obtaining a Pro-Scale A4 primarily because the tender lends itself to modification to be a 1935 Streamlined one more than other kits. It's still a way down the build list but I do think the RSU would work well with the rather thin etchings. Since buying it I've also managed to get a spare set of body etches so if I do c*ck it up...

[landscapes]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Richard,

 

The problem with attempting to replicate the cockles and ripples in an original Bulleid Pacific's casing is that it can often look like bad building.

 

 

When I made MORTEHOE from a Crownline kit, the method of fixing the the thin, etched overlays over the pierced sub-structure with solder caused those overlays to buckle slightly (just visible in places in this raking shot). Ian Rathbone's superlative painting rendered it perfectly. A 'happy accident'!

 

In contrast...........

 

 

Hornby's latest (Hornby Dublo) original MN with a die-cast body is just about 'perfect'. Too perfect? 

 

In many respects the poor RTR manufacturers cannot win.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Hi Tony

 

The West Country Pacific looks absolutely stunning.

 

As much as I like all variations of LNER Pacific’s my absolute favourite class of locomotives are the unrebuilt Bulleid  Pacific’s.

 

I sometimes wish I had given a bit more thought to railway modelling when I started Haymarket, then Padstow Station would have been my next choice of location.

 

I started trainspotting in1962 and living in London I managed to see 100 of the 110 light Pacific’s and all 30 members of the Merchant Navy Class.

 

Regards

 

David

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

The top one definitely looks more natural.

 

As you may recall Tony, you assisted me in obtaining a Pro-Scale A4 primarily because the tender lends itself to modification to be a 1935 Streamlined one more than other kits. It's still a way down the build list but I do think the RSU would work well with the rather thin etchings. Since buying it I've also managed to get a spare set of body etches so if I do c*ck it up...

Good morning Rich,

 

As you might know, I modified the tender on the Pro-Scale MALLARD I built to represent a 1935 type.

 

 

 

 

It required shortening the tank sides slightly and bending a radius on the rear to match the end profile of the streamlined stock the first A4s were designed to haul. Not too difficult a job, but a pleasing detail.

 

I also added the strip at the bottom, originally fixed to support the stainless steel embellishment for the 'Coronation' and 'West Riding' A4s. No RTR offerings have this, even though the makers might add a 'stainless steel', which is above the soleplate; not, as it should be, below it. 

 

MALLARD changed tenders probably more than any other A4, so modelling a correct date is important.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

The West Country Pacific looks absolutely stunning.

 

As much as I like all variations of LNER Pacific’s my absolute favourite class of locomotives are the unrebuilt Bulleid  Pacific’s.

 

I sometimes wish I had given a bit more thought to railway modelling when I started Haymarket, then Padstow Station would have been my next choice of location.

 

I started trainspotting in1962 and living in London I managed to see 100 of the 110 light Pacific’s and all 30 members of the Merchant Navy Class.

 

Regards

 

David

Good morning David,

 

You're too kind, though Ian Rathbone's painting certainly is stunning.

 

Trying to illustrate the ripples in MORTEHOE's construction is quite difficult, but I think the following shots display the 'happy accident' caused by expansion during soldering-on the thin brass overlays for the cladding. 

 

 

 

 

 

I've tried different lighting attempting to emphasise this. 

 

I think a model of an original Bulleid light Pacific made this way looks far more-'natural' than any RTR 'plastic perfection' (though Hornby's renditions are very good). 

 

I built 34094 near 30 years ago, and she ran on Leighford originally. Latterly, she operated on Charwelton (on railtour duty), but now lives in her box; only being 'let-out' on LB when SR-loving friends visit.........

 

 

I think she might have picked up a few more dents and dings in her life, anyway.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Bucoops]

43 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Rich,

 

As you might know, I modified the tender on the Pro-Scale MALLARD I built to represent a 1935 type.

 

 

 

 

It required shortening the tank sides slightly and bending a radius on the rear to match the end profile of the streamlined stock the first A4s were designed to haul. Not too difficult a job, but a pleasing detail.

 

I also added the strip at the bottom, originally fixed to support the stainless steel embellishment for the 'Coronation' and 'West Riding' A4s. No RTR offerings have this, even though the makers might add a 'stainless steel', which is above the soleplate; not, as it should be, below it. 

 

MALLARD changed tenders probably more than any other A4, so modelling a correct date is important.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Thank you Tony, I intend to produce one of the first four in original livery so the correct tender is a must of course. I won't try and do the original coupling pocket and shorter buffers though, not that they lasted long.

[30368]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've tried different lighting attempting to emphasise this. 

 

Afternoon Tony,

 

Mortehoe looks splendid, the heat distortion on the thin cladding works very well and I like the way you have left the middle and trailing sandbox filler sliding covers open, they often were.  I nice detail. I have a very old Hornby BB body that I intend to flat back to remove the rivet detail and then cover with ultra thin brass overlays. I also have an Alan Gibson set of frames for it so I will have to build that up first. That is, when I get around to it!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

[D-A-T]

I agree. I think you have, by accident, captured the look very well. Bet you couldn’t do it again if you intended to!

 

PS If you ever decide it’s surplus to requirements can I be first in line please. 

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, 30368 said:

Mortehoe looks splendid, the heat distortion on the thin cladding works very well and I like the way you have left the middle and trailing sandbox filler sliding covers open, they often were.  I nice detail. I have a very old Hornby BB body that I intend to flat back to remove the rivet detail and then cover with ultra thin brass overlays. I also have an Alan Gibson set of frames for it so I will have to build that up first. That is, when I get around to it!

 

Very timely that you should notice and point this out.  I'm (slowly) building a Dapol Bullied Pacific kit as a "scrapper"; not an original idea* but I'm really trying to get details like this right.  Therefore the tender coal space is being made up as empty, the whistle is missing, name plate positions will be rusty and the smokebox door is missing (easier to remove it altogether than just remove the numberplate from the moulding!), with a false front tubeplate visible behind.  So I'll be drilling out the sandbox covers as well.

 

*There are a surprising number for sale on eBay for about £20, ready-built as "withdrawn loco" but exactly in accordance with the instructions so including loads of features that a loco on the scrap line wouldn't have.  I mean, who would leave the tender full of coal....?