Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

?????

 

Allusion or illusion? I can make sense of the statement if the latter was intended. If the former then your meaning is too subtle for my meagre brain.

 

It was a cunning ploy to to attract the attention of a man who may be able to supply A3 superheater covers, and a suitable dome and chimney for an 04/8.

 

Alternatively when the beep of the lawnmower battery charger calls, all pretence at editing goes out the window. My fear of being caught in the second hailstone barrage of the day, being

far greater then looking stupid, or even deploying a cleverly subtle I prefix on RM web.

[AndyID]

It was a cunning ploy to to attract the attention of a man who may be able to supply A3 superheater covers, and a suitable dome and chimney for an 04/8.

 

Alternatively when the beep of the lawnmower battery charger calls, all pretence at editing goes out the window. My fear of being caught in the second hailstone barrage of the day, being

far greater then looking stupid, or even deploying a cleverly subtle I prefix on RM web.

 

Now that's just elusion

[Headstock]

Or delusion.

[Barry Ten]

Here's a very long-term project I'm slowly forcing its way to completion, this being a Western Region Blue Pullman set:

 

 

I'm afraid to say it's about nine years since I started, beginning by slowly acquiring the Triang donor cars via ebay. This was long before

Bachmann had announced a Midland Pullman, which is a good thing or I might not have started. Chris Leigh supplied the bogie castings,

Genesis the cab ends, Southern Pride the window inserts, and DC Kits provided the Black Beetle bogies which provide power.

 

Unlike the 6-car Midland units, the WR sets were eight vehicles long and only the first class parlour cars were common to the two

rakes. There is a lot to be done in terms of reworking the interiors, changing the exterior details for the kitchen cars, and so on.

 

A couple of months ago I decided to complete two stalled projects, and this is the second of the two. I've now completed all the

intermediate vehicles and am just finishing the bogies for the dummy power car at the rear. I must admit that a certain amount of

boredom has now kicked in, but I dare not put it back into the drawer again or it may never see the end. Unfortunately it's one of

those intensely repetitive modelling challenges. Doing one kitchen car is fun, doing two is a chore!

 

Incidentally I tried to cost all the parts to date, including the donor models, and came to 450 pounds, excluding paint, decals, bearings

and sundry small parts. Bachmann's model is expected to cost around 500 pounds when it comes back into the shops, and while

that's only a 6-car unit, it does have interior lights, close-coupling and so on. However, mine will be one of those rare examples

of a WR Blue Pullman, and even more so since I plan to paint it in the unpopular reversed blue-grey livery. Unless it's taken up by one

of the high-end RTR specialists such as Golden Age, I doubt very much that anyone will do a WR Pullman now as the costs would

be prohibitive.

 

Alastair (Barry Ten)

Edited April 30, 2016 by Barry Ten

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

You could have motor bogies on both power cars and on the outer ends of the adjacent saloons, just like the TGV... that would keep things moving!

[Headstock]

Sounds like a job for Big Bertha.

[billbedford]

You could have motor bogies on both power cars and on the outer ends of the adjacent saloons, just like the TGV... that would keep things moving!

 

 

That was the arrangement on the original blue pullmans, but they also carried an engineer whose job it was to switch the power to the bogie under the leading carriage.

[Barry Ten]

I would recommend fitting motor bogies in the rear driving car aswell as it is possible that 1 driving car may struggle to haul or propel the set. There may a lot of modellers on here who get bored with me saying that whenever I read about a project where the finished result is a train of 8, 9, 10 or 11 cars in a unit for example but the reason is that having traction power at both ends helps move the set more effectively than at just 1 end.

 

I certainly had some concerns about haulage from just one power car, but they've proven unfounded, both in forward and reverse.

[Barry Ten]

That was the arrangement on the original blue pullmans, but they also carried an engineer whose job it was to switch the power to the bogie under the leading carriage.

 

I didn't know that.

[Tony Wright]

Bill Bedford has very kindly sent me two of his latest 4mm kits for GNR carriages. They're cast in resin, with the bodysides and floor pan in one piece. They look absolutely splendid, even without any cleaning up having taken place.

 

 

 

They look exactly the type of carriage that by BR days would have been cascaded down into engineers' trains, painted black. Am I right in this guess? I'll be writing up a report on how I built them. The building shouldn't take long - I tried fixing the larger bits together and the fit was perfect. I've never found that with a plastic kit for a carriage, nor with several etched brass/white metal combinations. 

 

 

Speaking of things not taking long, another 'alteration' to one of Heljan's 2-8-0s didn't take long at all. I replaced the too-tall chimney (for my period), fitted AWS , renumbered it and handed it over to Geoff Haynes to weather for me; and what a cracking job he's done. Geoff uses an air brush and powders, so the one I dry-brushed makes an interesting comparison (it featured a page or two back). It certainly make an interesting comparison, standing alongside the ACE O2/2 I built some years ago. Tim Shackleton weathered that. In many respects, the Heljan model is superior.  

 

Edited May 1, 2016 by Tony Wright

[wagonbasher]

Bill Bedford has very kindly sent me two of his latest 4mm kits for GNR carriages. They're cast in resin, with the bodysides and floor pan in one piece. They look absolutely splendid, even without any cleaning up having taken place.

 

Mousa Models carriages 01.jpg

 

 

They look exactly the type of carriage that by BR days would have been cascaded down into engineers' trains, painted black. Am I right in this guess? I'll be writing up a report on how I built them. The building shouldn't take long - I tried fixing the larger bits together and the fit was perfect. I've never found that with a plastic kit for a carriage, nor with several etched brass/white metal combinations. 

 

Dsc_3288.jpg

 

Speaking of things not taking long, another 'alteration' to one of Heljan's 2-8-0s didn't take long at all. I replaced the too-tall chimney (for my period), fitted AWS , renumbered it and handed it over to Geoff Haynes to weather for me; and what a cracking job he's done. Geoff uses an air brush and powders, so the one I dry-brushed makes an interesting comparison (it featured a page or two back). It certainly make an interesting comparison, standing alongside the ACE O2/2 I built some years ago. Tim Shackleton weathered that. In many respects, the Heljan model is superior.  

 

[attachment=706492:Dsc_3293.jpg

 

Doing exactly the job I use it for...............  As a layout loco, this Tango fits in exactly with every other piece of motive power I've got. Yes, I've made most of the locos but this one is as good (if not better) than any of the four O2s I've built which run on LB. Geoff Haynes' weathering really brings it to life - it looks so naturally mucky to me; exactly as I remember seeing Tangos at Kiveton Park, Worksop and Retford. 

 

The Heljan O2s have received some criticisms but I don't know if some of this is entirely fair. Obviously, as one who's helped in the project I have to declare an interest, but how many modellers can arrive at as realistic a model as this by building a kit? Not many, especially as every one I've had new has worked so well. This will take 70 wagons, not derail, not stutter, not stall, not jerk and not over-heat. To me (and I have to declare that interest) it looks spot on. 

 

I'll be writing up the 'conversions' for BRM. 

It even looks like it has instructions..  

 

compensation?

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

It even looks like it has instructions..  

 

compensation?

 

Andy

Andy,

 

I don't know. If it has, I'll make it fixed.

[billbedford]

It even looks like it has instructions..  

 

compensation?

 

 

 The bogies are one piece resin castings with a built in torsion bar.

[Headstock]

Bill Bedford has very kindly sent me two of his latest 4mm kits for GNR carriages. They're cast in resin, with the bodysides and floor pan in one piece. They look absolutely splendid, even without any cleaning up having taken place.

 

Mousa Models carriages 01.jpg

 

 

 

 

Very nifty, a sort of Airfix kit for the carriage connoisseur. One could dream.

[billbedford]

 I'll make it fixed.

 

I'll be annoyed if you do, if only because that will take a great deal more work than just assembling the bogies as intended.

[gr.king]

On the matter of instructions I'll stick my neck out here and state that I can now see why Bill doesn't supply instructions with every item he offers. In some cases such things are very time consuming and tricky to write, as you don't know just what sort of a person the builder will be. Also there's a fair chance that even the best instructions will be ignored.

[grob1234]

That carriage (or coach? I'm never sure) looks the business.... I want some!

 

I'm very surprised there aren't more kits in this format (resin/plastic). They look exceptionally crisp. I'll be interested to see what sort of a job you do on these, Tony.  

[Woodcock29]

I'm looking forward to receiving my GN Dia 129 Comp from Bill - I hope its on the way to South Australia now. Will make a nice addition to the fleet of GN Howlden stock I'm currently building, a couple of which I posted photos of last week.

 

Andrew Emmett

[Mark Forrest]

Andy,

 

I don't know. If it has, I'll make it fixed.

From the perspective of somebody reading an article on the construction of these, I think I'd be interested to see the manufacturer's intended design used initially, even if you do then choose go on to convert it to a rigid set up to suit your own preferences.  I think dismissing the compensation provided when describing the build infers that there is some sort of a problem with it, which I'm sure there isn't.

[billbedford]

I don't know. If it has, I'll make it fixed.

 

 

After writing #9886 I realised that your comment is ambiguous, it could mean making the bogies work as intended, or it could mean making the bogies rigid.

[2ManySpams]

After writing #9886 I realised that your comment is ambiguous, it could mean making the bogies work as intended, or it could mean making the bogies rigid.

As it's a magazine article essentially reviewing a manufacturer's new product I would hope Tony would build the kit as intended. Tony's personal views on any sort of compensation are well known on here but, as Mark says, to offhandedly dismiss the option in a magazine does indeed infer to the uninitiated that there's something wrong with the kit. I would also be miffed if a free sample offered as a review build were treated this way.

[Tony Wright]

I'll be annoyed if you do, if only because that will take a great deal more work than just assembling the bogies as intended.

Bill,

 

You won't be annoyed; I'll just assemble them as supplied.

 

It's just that every carriage I've ever made which has some form of compensation/springing has never ridden as well as a rigid bogie. They rock and roll far more on the road and are far more likely to derail in my experience. Personally, I prefer a cast-metal bogie. Even if it has an etched brass subframe (like Comet), the heavy cast overlays always give terrific stability. The centre of gravity is low down and the riding is always improved with the weight as low as possible.

 

Though nowhere in the same class, years ago Hornby-Dublo tried a compensated bogie on some of the SD Mk.1s. The result, derailments everywhere, and they quickly switched back to rigid bogies. I had one of the firm's Pullman cars which had a compensated Gresley-style bogie. It never worked. 

 

I assume (not having examined them yet) that the bogies are Fox types on these GNR carriages. If so, I have several cast-metal examples of those, so might try them as an experiment. Whatever happens, I've never had any kit, made of any material, fit so well on an initial dry-run as the ones you've just sent me.  

 

Many thanks,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

As it's a magazine article essentially reviewing a manufacturer's new product I would hope Tony would build the kit as intended. Tony's personal views on any sort of compensation are well known on here but, as Mark says, to offhandedly dismiss the option in a magazine does indeed infer to the uninitiated that there's something wrong with the kit. I would also be miffed if a free sample offered as a review build were treated this way.

I don't mean to imply (you infer) to anyone (uninitiated or not) that's there's anything wrong with any kit by altering it to suit my personal needs. I admit my initial response was a bit 'throw away' and not intended to be definitive. It was careless and ill-considered.  

 

From initial inspection, these kits are superb - definitely superior to a large number (hundreds) of carriage kits I've built. That said, any high-quality kit should be able to be adaptable enough to suit the personal needs of the builder. This does not imply criticism; indeed, quite the opposite. As I've stated in the post above, I prefer white-metal bogies. Why? They always (in my experience) ride better than plastic equivalents. Since 'perfect' running is of paramount importance to me, I go with what I know works the best for me.

 

May I list a few examples where I've altered kits to 'improve' them in my experience, please?

 

Since Comet doesn't make a Gresley heavy-duty bogie, I always use MJT ones underneath the firm's catering cars. I always make them rigid. With Comet's Thompson roofs, I always substitute MJT ones. 

 

I always substitute turned brass buffers for cast-metal/plastic ones on any loco/item of rolling stock I build. This does not imply dissatisfaction with a product, but the brass alternatives are far superior. I've lost count of the times I've picked up broken-off plastic buffer heads off stock after an exhibition.

 

In locomotive construction, I've never been able to make a cast-metal chassis work perfectly. So, I make a brass substitute.

 

I never use the 'American' system of pick-up, even though it's recommended by DJH. Since I've probably built more DJH loco kits than most, how can anyone infer that I'm implying a criticism of DJH because of that?

 

When I built the London Road K2, I altered the method of chassis-making because I couldn't get it to work as designed (I'm not alone). Since I've built over a dozen LRM kits, surely the implication should be that I find them entirely satisfactory and build them as I please.

 

I've lost count of the number of kits of all sorts I've reviewed down the years. In every case, I've altered them to suit my own personal needs. I admit my prejudices and preferences, but I get them all to work; which is the ultimate objective, surely?

 

Finally, on the subject of 'free' kits, perhaps a few pertinent comments might be worth making. In every case, where a kit is provided 'free' for review, the manufacturer always sees a copy of a review before it's published (not to have altered but to be able to make comments about). A full set of pictures is also provided (professionally-taken) free-of-charge for the manufacturer to use as he/she pleases- adverts/publicity/society magazines, etc. In Bill Bedford's case, I've already sent him the picture shown on this thread, for him to use as he wishes. There'll be many more.

 

I'll often build two items at the same time, giving one to the manufacturer to be used (if he/she wishes) as a display model, again free-of-charge. I've made several for DJH in this way, and also written instructions, and provided loads of pictures for the firm's catalogue.

 

Things aren't always as free as some might infer.   

Edited May 2, 2016 by Tony Wright

[micklner]

     Re the Resin kits , I agree re the Bogies , they obviously need as much weight and a point of gravity as low down as possible for good riding. I tried Kirk plastic ones once many years ago, never again. 

     It will be interesting to see how the torsion bar resin one actually run when built.

Edited May 2, 2016 by micklner

[billbedford]

They look exactly the type of carriage that by BR days would have been cascaded down into engineers' trains, painted black. 

 

 

Some of them were certainly used by the engineers, whether they were painted black or not I'm not so sure. My memory of engineer's stock was that they were not repainted very often, and for old cascaded stock this meant that they were almost never repainted. The last of these coaches were withdrawn around 1950. There are photos of some in service in 1949 when they were over 50 years old. So that most of these coaches were withdrawn by the LNER and would have been given 9xxxxx number and painted oxford blue. Any that were withdrawn by BR were given DE 32xxxx and painted black. These is a problem here, in that I'm not at all sure what colour engineers coaches were painted during the 40s. I would expect that they were painted blue until stocks of paint ran out and then they were probably painted black, or brown, I just can't tell from black and white photos. If anyone has any information on this I would like hear it. 

 

And on a related note, does anyone know how oxford blue weathered?