Wright writes.....

[New Haven Neil]

Hi Tony what I have always enjoyed about this thread...the superlative models. ..informed comment....passionate but not derogoratory argument but last but not least people creating something from whatever source....whether it be extra detail to a RTR.....resurrecting models from another time...I suspect like a number if not most of my fellow contributors to this thread....it is often the loco that has been the biggest problem to solve that attracts my affection...rather than a beautiful model, that We have had little or no input, rather then key in our PIN number on purchase ....I send this whilst looking at my Bill Bedford motion 44767...Bill I know you contribute to this thread. I want to thank you for producing this etch motion....instructions might have helped...but then again...like some/ most on this thread would probably ignored them if this last comment comes across as derogoratory....far from it....it made me research this unique loco..I had to do justice to Bill's superb etch...it involved speaking with Mike a Edge at Warley...both of us..as luck would have it examining the industrial loco Belpheron..also with stephen sons valve gear...examine ad infinitum a YouTube clip of a 5 inch gauge version of this loco...and the real thing happily preserved. I have described the motion as someone knitting in a frenzy...magic...to watch this run on my layout ..on a less upbeat note...my Heljan garratt...succumbed. ....to.....a state of inertia....beautiful ....expensive....currently with a friend...more qualified than I ...his brief make it work.....it is not the fact it hasn't worked to my standard...it is that I cannot put right...No matter I love this hobby...when it goes right..there is no better feeling....again thank you

 

Not meaning to be derogatory either, but Bellerophon does not have Stephenson valvegear, but Allen straight link.  Similar, but not the same.

[46256]

Thanks Neil it was the double crank off the driving axle that was confusing me....not that it requires much to do so...being able to examine that loco at Warley was of great help....I must add though the YouTube clip of the 5inch gauge model on the rolling road is well worth watching...best wishes Brian

[Mallard60022]

I am not usually one to be too critical of the modelling of others as I have said before and will say again, I would much rather see something that somebody has made rather than something they have bought.

 

But knowing John Houlden and Tony Wright, I am a little surprised that the rearward facing expansion link slipped through on the K2. I only mention it as I have done exactly the same myself and had it pointed out by a certain Mr Crawley, who took a strange pleasure in pulling me up when I made a hash of things.

 

Tony G

Blimey, that is so reassuring tbg, as when I looked at the original pic I thought that link fitting looks back to front. However, as I know nowt about these loco's, other than having seen some pics here and there, I could not be sure my thinking was actually correct. Having built a few loco's in the past, if the instructions were vague as they often were/are, I have made some errors. Everyone that says use a picture of the one you want to represent is absolutely right. However, even then there is no guarantee that it will be correct due to  things that got changed, moved or replaced, like those front of smokebox handrails on ER Pacifics.....nightmare. Don't get me started on Bulleid Pacific details and fittings that I thought were 'standard'. Thank heavens for Chris Tooth re these machines.

Phil

[CF MRC]

But knowing John Houlden and Tony Wright, I am a little surprised that the rearward facing expansion link slipped through on the K2. I only mention it as I have done exactly the same myself and had it pointed out by a certain Mr Crawley, who took a strange pleasure in pulling me up when I made a hash of things.

 

Tony G

If you make the valve gear fully working Tony, then that is a mistake you will never make!

 

Tim

[t-b-g]

If you make the valve gear fully working Tony, then that is a mistake you will never make!

 

Tim

 

I only did it once and I was very young. Since then, I took up modelling the GCR so I don't have to do it any more.

 

At least I don't make valve gear so small that nobody can see it and then hide it between the frames, like some folk I know.......

Edited April 18, 2016 by t-b-g

[t-b-g]

He did that more than once to me at work too...

 

I got my revenge on him once or twice but more often than not he wouldn't ever acknowledge that he might have got something wrong. I recall at least a couple of times when I queried why something on one of his locos was not quite as straight as it might be to be told that the solder he used must be dodgy as he had put it on straight and it must have moved later. 

[Tony Wright]

I got my revenge on him once or twice but more often than not he wouldn't ever acknowledge that he might have got something wrong. I recall at least a couple of times when I queried why something on one of his locos was not quite as straight as it might be to be told that the solder he used must be dodgy as he had put it on straight and it must have moved later. 

Tony,

 

I too took sweet delight after one of his locos failed on Retford, after my A2/2 had romped round on 12 cars. It was the same one which caused Malcolm to turn puce after you and I sneaked it on shed on Narrow Road at Ally Pally. However, what an inspiration he was! I sometimes wonder whether the likes of Mr. Crawley are gone forever, in a model railway world so obsessed today with what the RTR boys are offering. Can you imagine him giving a hoot? Let's just make it................ I can hear him now. 

 

As for the K2, complete with wrong-way-round expansion links, I sold it today for £160.00. The buyer, a dear friend didn't give a fig, claiming he couldn't even see the links, nor any bent handrails! He was just delighted with it, especially the running. And, £16.00 to Cancer Research! 

[t-b-g]

Tony,

 

I too took sweet delight after one of his locos failed on Retford, after my A2/2 had romped round on 12 cars. It was the same one which caused Malcolm to turn puce after you and I sneaked it on shed on Narrow Road at Ally Pally. However, what an inspiration he was! I sometimes wonder whether the likes of Mr. Crawley are gone forever, in a model railway world so obsessed today with what the RTR boys are offering. Can you imagine him giving a hoot? Let's just make it................ I can hear him now. 

 

As for the K2, complete with wrong-way-round expansion links, I sold it today for £160.00. The buyer, a dear friend didn't give a fig, claiming he couldn't even see the links, nor any bent handrails! He was just delighted with it, especially the running. And, £16.00 to Cancer Research! 

 

I have a photo of him in the shed/workshop, up on the top shelf, looking down on me and every time I get stuck with something, or find myself on the point of accepting some less than adequate work, I think of him and try that bit harder. He did have a few RTR locos but his conversions to EM were always a bit half hearted. Perhaps the best was, of all things a B1.

 

"Not really a Thompson design at all, the credit for the design should have gone to Darlington drawing office." as he used to say to mitigate against his professed dislike for all things Thompson. That had a RTR body and a set of Comet frames/valve gear and a lovely paint job in LNER green.

 

He is still much missed after 4 years.

 

Good news on the K2. I am pleased that it has found a good home.

 

Edited to add a slight p.s. I am reliably advised by an impeccable source (or should that be sauce) that the B1 mechanism was by Dave Bradwell rather than Comet.

Edited April 19, 2016 by t-b-g

[chris p bacon]

He is still much missed after 4 years.

As remarked upon by many members on Saturday at a GNRS meeting.

[PMP]

 

A bit late to the party on the 14XX front, I dug this one out after reading Barry Tens post. This one is 22 years or so old at least. Perseverance compensated chassis, Ultrascales, Portescap, and Mainly Trains/Puffers detailing components. Built to EM gauge, the mentoring for this came from the likes of Bert Collins and other colleagues at Kings Cross MRM. It too is a bit crude compared to what I do now, but, when I look at things like the open cab shutters, flush glazing and weathering, those are three constants that have stayed through my modelling 'career'. It has made me think about re-working it back to OO, and seeing what improvements I can make on it, to put it into my current Forest of Dean fleet. Can anyone else pick up an early model of theirs and see, yep, still do that...

[unclebobkt]

      ... .

  In a way, such a loco presents a dilemma to the 'resurrectionist' (is there such a word?).

  ... .

 

       Indeed there is such a word as 'Resurrectionist,'. .  

  Inhabitants of N. Britain's capital city -  aka. the self-styled  'Athens of the North.' - may care to remember Messers Burke & Hare, inter alii!  

 

  Quite by chance, as one writes, I was looking at >> RMWeb - UK. prototype questions. <<  and came across a thread entitled: 'Talking manure' ; which I resolved to read further   >>  www.rmweb.co.uk/community.index.php?/.topic/110328 -talking manure <<  posting #5. of 16 April 2016. - 23:19.hrs.  by Peter 220950. in which he quotes: 'You will, moreover, be pleased not to regard this resurrectionist warning as a low and a greasy attempt ... .'.  Chapter IX. - The Bones of old London;  Victorian London - Pubs - Social Investigation/Journalism - Unsentimental Journeys; or byways of the modern Babylon.  James Greenwood - 1867..

 

  That quote is from the more recent book entitled: 'Dirty old London - the Victorian fight against filth.';

Author:   Lee Jackson;

Pub'r.:    Yale University Press;

ISBN.:    9 780300 19205 6.;

Price:     $12.50. to 15.95..

 

       

Edited April 20, 2016 by unclebobkt

[Barry O]

Tony

 

remember a Comet chassis fro a B17, and a Poppy Jig?

 

Well after a bit if a delay....

 

Grimsby Town

 

 

and a classic three quarter view..

 

 

Just noticed that the tender isn't on the track...Bu$$ger!

 

The next one is Sunderland and the chassis is done, it will make use of Comet motion....

 

Many thanks

 

Baz

 

 

[gr.king]

Up the Mariners!

 

(Slim chance)

[jwealleans]

Up the where, though?

[gr.king]

Other than gumtree or creek I'm not allowed to say on here.

 

Now, about the high front on that tender, they're not that difficult to cut down to the earlier type......

[Horsetan]

Up the where, though?

 

They don't like it up 'em.

[Mallard60022]

That's a very handsome machine Baz. Can not think who might have weathered it though.

Other than gumtree or creek I'm not allowed to say on here.

Now, about the high front on that tender, they're not that difficult to cut down to the earlier type......

Your mini saw is twirling this very moment is it not dear boy?

Phil

[Horsetan]

...Your mini saw is twirling ....

 

I thought they usually buzz rather than twirl? Or is this a particularly freestyle minisaw?

[Tony Wright]

Among others things recently, I've been turning my attention to detailing/altering one of Heljan's O2s. 

 

 

One of the comments on the web seemed to be about the height of the chimney on some of the earlier period locos. I looked at pictures, and decided to fit a new one from Markits.

 

When I first received my samples, one thing which I didn't like was the 'permanent' connection, both physically and electrically, between the loco and its tender. This type of arrangement seems to becoming the accepted practice with RTR tender locos (apart from Bachmann so far?) because, it seems to me, for two reasons. One, the almost universal need now to have DCC-capability (and the best place to put a decoder and sound chip is in the tender) and, two, the fitting of tender pick-ups. My views are very well known by now, I'm sure, but just to reiterate; I dislike DCC, see no need for it in my circumstances and find the whole mess of wires connecting this or that and absolute fag. With the locos I make, I only need ONE wire - that from the pick-ups to one motor terminal. The other terminal returns via the frames to complete the circuit. I've also never needed tender pick-ups; why would I? If every chassis is well made, if every insulated driving wheel picks up and every non-insulated one returns, if every point/crossing is live frog, and the trackwork is well-made and well-laid, stutter-free, slow-speed running can be readily achieved.

 

So, how to simplify the Heljan O2s arrangement (and others)? At both ends of the drawbar is a plug and socket arrangement. I just pulled the loco one out, snipped off the wires, bared their ends, tinned them and soldered the respective wires together from the pick-ups to the motor. 

 

 

Like this. How much simpler and far less fussy! Why red needs to be connected to black, I don't know (if black-to-black and red-to-red, the loco runs in the wrong direction). 

 

 

To ensure there were no potential short circuits, I sleeved the exposed joints with small-bore rubber tubing. From the side these look like various feed pipes. 

 

Another bonus of my mod' is that I can shorten the drawbar. 

 

There you are, much simpler; no DCC faffing around and still perfect running. I'll be writing the whole lot up in BRM. 

 

 

Speaking of 'perfect running', here's a further pair of John Houlden's locos. Before any are sold, I check each one, adjust, clean and oil if necessary and away they fly. 

 

Though both these classes are available RTR, neither of those equivalents will pull as much as these. The A2 is from a DJH kit and the K1 from a Nu-Cast kit. The problem is how does one realise a fair price for 'perfectly natural' locos like these? The component costs are at least twice that of the RTR A2 and K1 respectively, especially the latter where they were going at St. Albans in January for £90.00! I know which I prefer, and always will, even if natural-looking locos aren't absolutely perfect - naturally. Anyone interested, please PM me. 

 

May I please thank all those folk who've bought John's stock so far? In several cases the buyers have run their purchasers on LB; entirely to their delight. In fact, I prefer it if the models are collected personally. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Tony Wright

[micklner]

Bachmann O4's have a permanent Loco/Tender set up. Luckily this can be disconnected by simply bridging the chassis connections on the Loco chassis with brass wire ( Thanks Graeme King) .

As to DCC far too expensive to consider for me to consider. Sound?, I find  to be the most annoying thing ever !! just "sounds" totally unrealistic to me !! 

[Tony Wright]

Try as I might, I cannot find any information as to the tare weight of Thompson's carriages. Does anyone out there know what these were, please? I assume the CK was lighter (being shorter), but were the others much the same? The TK, FK, BSK, BCK? 

 

Many thanks in anticipation. 

[Tony Wright]

Bachmann O4's have a permanent Loco/Tender set up. Luckily this can be disconnected by simply bridging the chassis connections on the Loco chassis with brass wire ( Thanks Graeme King) .

As to DCC far too expensive to consider for me to consider. Sound?, I find  to be the most annoying thing ever !! just "sounds" totally unrealistic to me !! 

Thanks Mick,

 

I'd forgotten about the Bachmann O4; and the Director as well, and probably some others. My memory must be really crumbling because I modified the O4 some years ago in exactly the same manner as I've done on the O2. 

 

Your point about DCC being expensive is very valid, though I'm sure technology such as this doesn't come cheap. What does a multi-functional decoder cost these days? What about one with sound? Pretty costly I would think. 

 

I remain ambivalent about sound on layouts. Some I've heard sound quite realistic (though, other than Deltics, I can't identify a diesel loco by its sound) and some just wrong. A steam-sound loco I heard more recently sounded just like a piece of sandpaper rubbing against a cam on a tender axle. Where had I heard that before? Another steam-outline loco just kept 'chuffing' up to a set of buffers. Presumably, these are cheaper sound units. One of the best I heard last year ran on LB. It consisted of a speaker in the leading van of a train, with the next one carrying fair-sized batteries. It could be adjusted to mimic certain types. Was it DCC? No. Did it work? Yes. One just put a loco in front of the van and set up the sound accordingly. Would I use any sound systems? No; in the same way I wouldn't use smoke. Dimensions can be scaled-down with some accuracy, though I'm not sure of aural scaling down, nor vapours, and certainly not fluids.  

 

Signed-up member of the Ned Ludd Appreciation Society!

[Tony Wright]

Tony

 

remember a Comet chassis fro a B17, and a Poppy Jig?

 

Well after a bit if a delay....

 

Grimsby Town

 

Grimsby town (2000x564).jpg

 

and a classic three quarter view..

 

three quarters front Grimsby Town (2000x966).jpg

 

Just noticed that the tender isn't on the track...Bu$$ger!

 

The next one is Sunderland and the chassis is done, it will make use of Comet motion....

 

Many thanks

 

Baz

Barry,

 

I'm sure it runs really well, your having used the Poppy's jig to set up the frames. Have you used some Nu-Cast parts on the valve gear - things like the crossheads and slidebars? 

 

Was the cabside numbering on the original body? If so, might it be worth replacing? The numerals look to be too small (they should be 10") and not centred. 

 

Oh, and with pedantic head on - B17s had 12-spoke bogie wheels. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Tony Wright

[billbedford]

Try as I might, I cannot find any information as to the tare weight of Thompson's carriages. Does anyone out there know what these were, please? I assume the CK was lighter (being shorter), but were the others much the same? The TK, FK, BSK, BCK? 

 

Many thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

D.328 CK -- 33 - 10 - 0

D.329 TK -- 33 - 9 - 0

D.330 TO -- 32 - 15 - 3

D.331 BTK(3) -- 31 - 5 - 0

D.332 FK -- 34 - 0 - 0

D.334 FK -- 32 - 17 - 0

D.336 TK -- 32 - 7 - 1

D.346 BTK(4) -- 30 - 13 - 0

D.348 FK -- 36 - 6 - 2

D.350 TO -- 36 - 1 - 3 (Flying Scotsman)

                    31 - 5 - 1 (Ordinary)

D.351 FO -- 35 - 12 - 3 (Flying Scotsman)

                    31 - 9 - 4 (Ordinary)

 

There are some weights missing from my diagrams, including the BCK.

[Focalplane]

When I did my fire and drive ten years ago I remember one of the experts saying that you don't rush a steam engine, you listen to it and respond accordingly. Which is why I now enjoy having DCC sound on my locomotives. Good sound files are remarkably life like and with correct synchronization will emulate the set up of a particular locomotive, I.e. Number of cylinders, flange squeal, etc.

 

But I also recognize the costs involved for anyone with a large roster. For me, though, each kit built loco joins a small family so the cost is not so great as for a large layout. I don't have to retrofit 100 locos at once. So it's horses for courses.

 

Wiring for DCC is not overly complicated, particularly for British outline steam. It can be done with live chassis locomotives as I have proven with a split chassis Bachmann Royal Scot.