Wright writes.....

[Flood]

Following Headstock's request, and the sun being out today, I have taken some photos of the re-sided coaches to run behind the A2/2. Incidentally the service modelled is the Winter 1958-9, 9.25 a.m. Peterborough - Kings Cross. This used the stock of a Cambridge set to run from Kings Cross to Peterborough at 7.21 p.m. to then run back to Kings Cross the next morning.

 

Construction of the BSKs was originally as suggested by Coachmann by replacing the sides and narrowing the chassis. In the end I used Comet chassis' as they were the correct width with the headstocks and buffers coming from the Hornby model (the headstocks being suitably shortened in length). The original Hornby bogies were used by having the clip section sawn off, a hole drilled through the centre and secured with nuts to an 8 BA screw extending through the Comet floor.

 

The FK was originally having just new sides and a detailed Bachmann chassis. After reading about the roof being so incorrect I bought an MJT roof, sawed off the ends of the Bachmann coach and then filed the Bachmann roof off the ends until the MJT roof fitted. In hindsight it would have been easier just buying a full Comet coach kit. The moulded Bachmann battery boxes were carefully cut out from between the trussing and new MJT battery boxes inserted.

 

I have found two photos of one of the BSKs after the brass sides had been fitted to the roof and ends.

 

 

 

Nearest the loco is BSK E16485E. This was originally virtually immaculate but I wished to tone down the roof. Not having an airbrush I use rattle cans blasted against the rear wall of my spray booth (cardboard box) just above the roof of the coach so that the mist falls onto the roof below. In this instance the mist also gave the sides a considerable covering and had to be removed. It has resulted in a dirty coach which looks like a futile attempt has been made to clean it, exactly what happened in my case. Being next to the loco, and with the smoke deflectors being so ineffective, I feel I can just about justify this condition.

 

 

 

The Thompson FK is E11173E. Renumbered to normal stock numbers from the East Coast numbering, I felt this model was an absolute joy until I realised I had forgotton to paint the curtains in. Very frustrating, as it is glued together with contact adhesive and I don't want to take it apart and make a mess of it.

 

 

 

Finally is E16502E, another BSK. This has not had any additional weathering.

 

 

 

All the coaches were sprayed in Railmatch maroon but different shades of undercoat, from white to mid grey, were used. Whether this produced the subtle difference in maroon shades which I was looking for is debatable. Lining and numbers are HMRS. The original Hornby coaches were a BCK and a SK so all the commode handles are carefully extracted Hornby ones as I had enough available. I feel they really do add to the models.

 

I hope others find all this of interest.

 

Graham H

Edited April 5, 2022 by Flood

[Headstock]

Following Headstock's request, and the sun being out today, I have taken some photos of the re-sided coaches to run behind the A2/2. Incidentally the service modelled is the Winter 1958-9, 9.25 a.m. Peterborough - Kings Cross. This used the stock of a Cambridge set to run from Kings Cross to Peterborough at 7.21 p.m. to then run back to Kings Cross the next morning.

 

Construction of the BSKs was originally as suggested by Coachmann by replacing the sides and narrowing the chassis. In the end I used Comet chassis' as they were the correct width with the headstocks and buffers coming from the Hornby model (the headstocks being suitably shortened in length). The original Hornby bogies were used by having the clip section sawn off, a hole drilled through the centre and secured with nuts to an 8 BA screw extending through the Comet floor.

 

The FK was originally having just new sides and a detailed Bachmann chassis. After reading about the roof being so incorrect I bought an MJT roof, sawed of the ends of the Bachmann coach and then filed the Bachmann roof off the ends until the MJT roof fitted. In hindsight it would have been easier just buying a full Comet coach kit. The moulded Bachmann battery boxes were carefully cut out from between the trussing and new MJT battery boxes inserted.

 

I have found two photos of one of the BSKs after the brass sides had been fitted to the roof and ends.

 

Gresley BTK (1).JPG

 

Gresley BTK (2).JPG

 

Nearest the loco is BSK E16485E. This was originally virtually immaculate but I wished to tone down the roof. Not having an airbrush I use rattle cans blasted against the rear wall of my spray booth (cardboard box) just above the roof of the coach so that the mist falls onto the roof below. In this instance the mist also gave the sides a considerable covering and had to be removed. It has resulted in a dirty coach which looks like a futile attempt has been made to clean it, exactly what happened in my case. Being next to the loco, and with the smoke deflectors being so ineffective, I feel I can just about justify this condition.

LNER BSK E16485E (1).JPG

 

LNER BSK E16485E (2).JPG

 

 

The Thompson FK is E11173E. Renumbered to normal stock numbers from the East Coast numbering, I felt this model was an absolute joy until I realised I had forgotton to paint the curtains in. Very frustrating, as it is glued together with contact adhesive and I don't want to take it apart and make a mess of it.

LNER FK E11173E (1).JPG

 

LNER FK E11173E (2).JPG

 

 

Finally is E16502E, another BSK. This has not had any additional weathering.

LNER BSK E16502E (1).JPG

 

LNER BSK E16502E (2).JPG

 

 

All the coaches were sprayed in Railmatch maroon but different shades of undercoat, from white to mid grey, were used. Whether this produced the subtle difference in maroon shades which I was looking for is debatable. Lining and numbers are HMRS. The original Hornby coaches were a BCK and a SK so all the commode handles are carefully extracted Hornby ones as I had enough available. I feel they really do add to the models.

 

I hope others find all this of interest.

 

Graham H

Hi Flood,

 

your carriages look really effective, I think that the MJT roof was definitely worth the effort. The Thompson carriages have a very distinctive end profile that you have captured well. The Comet roof would have ended up looking too flat.

[jwealleans]

Indeed, a lovely job. What does stick out to me - and no detraction from the quality of the build and finish here - is the main reason I don't like Comet Gresley sides, the lack of hinges.

[Headstock]

This is a Thompson corridor third that I did ages ago, very much inspired by Tony's work on his Elizabethan set. Just Comet sides on a Bachmann donor and the T Wright method of roof reprofiling. The underframe was stripped of its original bits and bobs and replaced with MJT components. E1098 was a regular in the Manchester-Marylebone trains and retained its 1948 chocolate and cream livery until the late 1950s. I think that the livery is slightly incorrect in that I was bamboozled by the caption on a photograph. I think the photo was actually one of the plum and spilt milk carriages. I believe the Chocolate and cream carriages had a deeper band below the cornice and the running number was positioned at the centre of the carriage. Could anybody confirm this?

[Flood]

Indeed, a lovely job. What does stick out to me - and no detraction from the quality of the build and finish here - is the main reason I don't like Comet Gresley sides, the lack of hinges.

A valid point. If I hadn't spent so much time soldering the sides after finally buying a decent temperature controlled iron, liquid flux and a larger iron bit then I would have had more incentive to add all the hinges. I do feel the panelled sides deflect the lack of hinges a little, the Thompson sides not only had the hinges added but also the door bumps as the flush sides do emphasise all these extra fittings.

[jwealleans]

Agreed. I have since built some of their flush sided carriages - Colletts - and there were dimples showing where to drill the bump stops. I was also given the detailing etch which does have the hinges and a jig for drilling them. However given the choice, I get my sides from Bill Bedford as the hinge slots are already etched and the beading profile is much finer.

[Mallard60022]

Agreed. I have since built some of their flush sided carriages - Colletts - and there were dimples showing where to drill the bump stops. I was also given the detailing etch which does have the hinges and a jig for drilling them. However given the choice, I get my sides from Bill Bedford as the hinge slots are already etched and the beading profile is much finer.

What do you shove in Bill's slots then Wellers? You know me and hinges..............  

Phil 

[micklner]

Agreed. I have since built some of their flush sided carriages - Colletts - and there were dimples showing where to drill the bump stops. I was also given the detailing etch which does have the hinges and a jig for drilling them. However given the choice, I get my sides from Bill Bedford as the hinge slots are already etched and the beading profile is much finer.

 

MJT  for me super quality and a good price.

[jwealleans]

If nothing's provided then bits of fret, usually, me old duck. It's a slot rather than a hole. The one I was building last night the top holes hadn't etched, so I just drilled a hole and used some spare Comet hinges in them.

 

If you make your own, you just need to remember to run a file vertically down the outside to line them all up.

 

Mick - MJT's range is quite limited if you're looking to replicate real formations. Just off the top of my head they don't do a 5 compartment BTK or a Pantry third, quite apart from exotics like the Locker Composite I started yesterday.

Edited July 14, 2016 by jwealleans

[MJI]

Back in the mists of time, post 9668, I gave the prices I was willing to pay for a number of steam locos to be built for me.

 

Having already posted a photo of the H15, post 9925, I am now following up with a photo of the A2/2 made for me by Tim Easter. Tony, you did state at the time that people should have a go themselves rather than saying that they can't do something and you are absolutely correct. With a bit of thought I could have done the Bachmann/Graeme King conversion but I still don't think I would have made as good a job as Tim has.

 

Over the last two weeks of ownership the loco had a mild disaster when the return rod caught on the return crank and bent itself to about 30 degrees. I have managed to straighten the return rod and ensure it now doesn't catch (the Bachmann return crank is slightly faulty) but wore off some small sections of Tim's Mig powder weathering. Therefore I have had to learn about the subtleties of steam loco weathering as well. Although she started off as a "cheque book model" my A2/2 has turned out to be good modelling experience for my ever developing skills. Who knows, if I ever want an A2/3 I may well have a go myself.

 

Anyway, to the photos. Some may not like the work-worn condition of the loco. The cylinders, in particular, have had extra limescale (if that is what it is) added by myself. I don't think it is too over the top and I've attached a link to the original photo so others can compare.

 

I know that most LNER followers do not like the P2 rebuilds but I hope the model purveys the essence of the original.

 

60506 (1).JPG

 

60506 (2).JPG

 

60506 (3).JPG

 

Plus, the original photo.

 

By the way, the Gresley brake second is Comet sides on a Hornby shell with a Comet chassis and is all my own work.

 

Graham H

 

What an uncared for wreck!

 

Looks pretty good!

 

[MJI]

This is a Thompson corridor third that I did ages ago, very much inspired by Tony's work on his Elizabethan set. Just Comet sides on a Bachmann donor and the T Wright method of roof reprofiling. The underframe was stripped of its original bits and bobs and replaced with MJT components. E1098 was a regular in the Manchester-Marylebone trains and retained its 1948 chocolate and cream livery until the late 1950s. I think that the livery is slightly incorrect in that I was bamboozled by the caption on a photograph. I think the photo was actually one of the plum and spilt milk carriages. I believe the Chocolate and cream carriages had a deeper band below the cornice and the running number was positioned at the centre of the carriage. Could anybody confirm this?

 

How did you get all the coach details from that era?

 

I got mine from spotting whole sets in the 1980s.

 

Genuine sets do interest me

[Mallard60022]

MJT  for me super quality and a good price.

Sure are but limited range sadly.

P

[Mallard60022]

If nothing's provided then bits of fret, usually, me old duck. It's a slot rather than a hole. The one I was building last night the top holes hadn't etched, so I just drilled a hole and used some spare Comet hinges in them.

 

If you make your own, you just need to remember to run a file vertically down the outside to line them all up.

 

Mick - MJT's range is quite limited if you're looking to replicate real formations. Just off the top of my head they don't do a 5 compartment BTK or a Pantry third, quite apart from exotics like the Locker Composite I started yesterday.

I 'profile' my hinges don't you know as well as tweaking as you suggest. However I use teeny weeny pliers to line them up.  I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to hinges. Maybe I'm unhinged

Larry would hit me with a soldering iron and say just do the bottom one laddy the others don't show (on a Gresley). 

I'm trying to remember which kits it is that come with hinges on the fret with the drops? 

I really admire these cut and shut experts that can produce a coach from loads of bits and still get it looking beautiful.

P

Edited July 14, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Headstock]

How did you get all the coach details from that era?

 

I got mine from spotting whole sets in the 1980s.

 

Genuine sets do interest me

 

Hi Martin,

 

You've almost answered your own question there. Make sure you record that information, someone may find it of interest in fifty years time. Basicaly people such as yourself saved, recorded, published or photographed a mass of material on the subject and then cunningly hid it away. The trick is in digging it out again and cross referancing the material to get a handle on what you require.

 

Photographs are a must but beware of those in books because the captions can often be rubish. Official first hand documents such as carriage working books will tell you alot as well as unoffical documents such as spotters books. Publications such as the RCTS can provide a lot of information. The National Railway Museum is a great resource if a bit bit higgley piggley and also the Natinal Archives in Kew. Then there are private collectors and of course proffesional railway men, I could go on. There are also one or two good books that will give you a good over view, such as Clive Carters work on LMS passenger train formations. Hope that helps.

[Tony Wright]

Am I allowed to say that the A2/3 was quite a good looking locomotive, and I ain't getting my coat. I always ponder the best way to deal with the front frames in 00, whether to stick them out or leave them in.

You're allowed to say whatever you like, Andrew. Your modelling gives you that right. 

 

On a personal level, I don't like the Thompson Pacifics' looks, particularly at the front end which just doesn't look 'right'. As a schoolboy, seeing GREAT NORTHERN at Retford I always thought it looked odd, especially in comparison with the production A1s. Remember, this was before I had any idea of the types' convoluted histories. 

 

As for where to put the front frames on a Thompson Pacific in OO, that's a real conundrum. When I built the chassis to go underneath Roy Jackson's 60501 to run on Retford, because it's in EM it looked just fine. In OO the frames appear to be too far out (exacerbated by the bogie splashers) because the bogie wheels are too far in. 

[Headstock]

You're allowed to say whatever you like, Andrew. Your modelling gives you that right. 

 

On a personal level, I don't like the Thompson Pacifics' looks, particularly at the front end which just doesn't look 'right'. As a schoolboy, seeing GREAT NORTHERN at Retford I always thought it looked odd, especially in comparison with the production A1s. Remember, this was before I had any idea of the types' convoluted histories. 

 

As for where to put the front frames on a Thompson Pacific in OO, that's a real conundrum. When I built the chassis to go underneath Roy Jackson's 60501 to run on Retford, because it's in EM it looked just fine. In OO the frames appear to be too far out (exacerbated by the bogie splashers) because the bogie wheels are too far in. 

Hi Tony,

 

It's that typical Doncaster 'face' that is their saving grace perhaps. I was pondering if a Thompson pacific was to be produced by Hornby, would they  produce it with a fixed front truck / frames with flangeless bogie wheels?

Edited July 14, 2016 by Headstock

[New Haven Neil]

Not sure I should post 'funny' or burst into tears!

 

I used to hate Thompson's pacifics, but have begun to think they have a purposeful 'leaning into it' look nowadays.  Middle age, eh!

Edited July 14, 2016 by New Haven Neil

[Tony Wright]

Back in the mists of time, post 9668, I gave the prices I was willing to pay for a number of steam locos to be built for me.

 

Having already posted a photo of the H15, post 9925, I am now following up with a photo of the A2/2 made for me by Tim Easter. Tony, you did state at the time that people should have a go themselves rather than saying that they can't do something and you are absolutely correct. With a bit of thought I could have done the Bachmann/Graeme King conversion but I still don't think I would have made as good a job as Tim has.

 

Over the last two weeks of ownership the loco had a mild disaster when the return rod caught on the return crank and bent itself to about 30 degrees. I have managed to straighten the return rod and ensure it now doesn't catch (the Bachmann return crank is slightly faulty) but wore off some small sections of Tim's Mig powder weathering. Therefore I have had to learn about the subtleties of steam loco weathering as well. Although she started off as a "cheque book model" my A2/2 has turned out to be good modelling experience for my ever developing skills. Who knows, if I ever want an A2/3 I may well have a go myself.

 

Anyway, to the photos. Some may not like the work-worn condition of the loco. The cylinders, in particular, have had extra limescale (if that is what it is) added by myself. I don't think it is too over the top and I've attached a link to the original photo so others can compare.

 

I know that most LNER followers do not like the P2 rebuilds but I hope the model purveys the essence of the original.

 

60506 (1).JPG

 

60506 (2).JPG

 

60506 (3).JPG

 

Plus, the original photo.

 

By the way, the Gresley brake second is Comet sides on a Hornby shell with a Comet chassis and is all my own work.

 

Graham H

Graham,

 

Anyone who can build carriages to the standard you've illustrated should have no trouble in converting a Bachmann A2 into an A2/3 using Graeme King's parts. 

 

Whether you'd do it as well as Tim Easter is a moot point, but I see no reason why not. Tim is a most-accomplished modeller but the requisite skills can be learnt. Not only that, the sense of personal satisfaction from having done the job yourself is sans pareil. Though you've done some extra work on your 60506, it's really a possession (a very nice possession, to be fair). When you do your A2/3 conversion it'll be your creation (like your carriages). Speaking of your 60506 (which looks superlative), please, please chuck away those horrid bogie wheels and fit Markits' replacements. The LNER Pacifics' bogie wheels had prominent bosses and flared spokes. Those don't! 

 

I've mentioned before how much I've admired Graeme King's work in providing the resin bits and pieces (and frets) to enable modellers to create conversions such as you've shown. I admit, it's not for me, because I'd much sooner build a complete kit (soldering resin/plastic just creates a stink!), if only for the greater adhesion to be obtained. In the two images I posted yesterday, both locos were on a 13-car kit-built (metal, with one exception) train. Leaving the fiddle yard 60515 just slipped and slipped. 60516 just walked away with it. That said, I'm immensely grateful to Graeme for doing the conversion for me - I just handed him a Bachmann A2, he did the conversion and I just finished off the painting/weathering. It was another example of horse-trading. 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Tony Wright

[Flood]

We were going to put Markits' wheels on because Tim knew how much you hate the Bachmann ones. For whatever reason Tim didn't have any available so I'll get on the web now and get some sourced.

 

If I struggle to find any in the next couple of hours I'll get back on here and ask you the best place to order them from.

 

Edit: It seems I'll have to approach Markits directly, that'll be a 'phone call tomorrow morning then.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Flood

[micklner]

Hi Tony,

 

It's that typical Doncaster 'face' that is their saving grace perhaps. I was pondering if a Thompson pacific was to be produced by Hornby, would they  produce it with a fixed front truck / frames with flangeless bogie wheels?

 

It easy there is no cylinder in the way !!

[Headstock]

It easy there is no cylinder in the way !!

Hi Mick,

 

I was thinking more about the potential discrepancy regarding the width between the frames and the bogie side frames in 00. A Hornby hover bogie would work as long as it wasn't photographed on a curb.

[micklner]

Hi Mick,

 

I was thinking more about the potential discrepancy regarding the width between the frames and the bogie side frames in 00. A Hornby hover bogie would work as long as it wasn't photographed on a curb.

 

Not sure what you mean ?

 

The frames and bogie widths are identical , you have to file off all the detail on the chassis before fitting the resin replacements, the splashers on the frames above the Bogie wheels are approx the same width as the wheel sets.

[Headstock]

Not sure what you mean ?

 

The frames and bogie widths are identical , you have to file off all the detail on the chassis before fitting the resin replacements, the splashers on the frames above the Bogie wheels are approx the same width as the wheel sets.

Hi Mick,

 

I refer you to post 10691 and post 10711 for further clarification, hope this helps.

[micklner]

Hi Mick,

 

I refer you to post 10691 and post 10711 for further clarification, hope this helps.

 

Yep thats better now clearer. 

 

 

It hasn't been a problem for me , anything in OO is always going to be a compromise. I have never noticed any such issues on any of my Thommo's.  I have Nucast, DJH and Resin conversions via the Bachmann A2 route. They all use the slot type front bogie as used on current Hornby and Bachmann Pacifics and other similar Locos.

[Tony Wright]

In preparation for the CMRA Modellers' Day tomorrow at Parmiter's School, Watford, I've been completing some carriages. 

 

 

This is a Hornby/MJT conversion to make a Gresley Kitchen Car. 

 

 

Apart from some end wires (to be fixed after the roof went on), the D&S Buffet Car is now also complete. I've lettered it 'Buffet' because it's shown as that in the appropriate M&GNR carriage workings, though a picture of the same car taken some years earlier (painted in carmine and cream) has it lettered 'Restaurant Car'. Jonathan Wealleans kindly sent me a picture of one of these cars in a Birmingham-Yarmouth through train (extended from Leicester), but it's impossible to tell how it's branded. Still, in keeping with my stock-building philosophy, it's clearly a 'layout carriage', and, for me, it serves that purpose just fine. 

 

 

 

As these two pictures illustrate, or, at least, I hope so. Here it is in the last year of the line's operation getting on for 60 years ago, when B1 61159 was used for a time. Though, according to its RA rating, a B1 was too heavy, by the end nobody cared. If it had gone into one of the fen drains it might have hastened the line's closure. The B1 is another of my 'layout locos', a detailed/renumbered/weathered Bachmann body/tender sitting on a Comet chassis. Even if I could build and finish  to the highest standards (which I definitely can't), I'd see no point. All the stuff I make runs on my layout and has to work; hard. I've no wish to be beholden to anyone to make my locos and stock (personal satisfaction and fiscal restraints), so, I hope, they all fit in to the overall scene. That's why I'm always encouraging folk to have a go themselves and to show their work. Larry Goddard's carriages knock mine into a cocked hat (as do Andrew Teale's), but that's not the point. With reasonable skill and a will to make something for yourself, most modellers (or those who call themselves modellers) should be able to achieve the sort of things I illustrate. But, only if they try. 

 

If you'd like to see these (and several other models), please come over and have a chat tomorrow at the CMRA Day.