Wright writes.....

[Porcy Mane]

Did I spot an Ernie Ranking Gray three link coupling in one of those photographs? 10d a set whem I bought my first.

 

P

Edited November 19, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[teaky]

I can see why you omitted the third one Tony.  That A4 has lost its brick chimney!

[micklner]

One obvious problem with the Lamp idea, is having to take the Brake van apart every time the battery dies. Much better if viable to fix underneath for access to the battery in due course. Perhaps the wires could be better routed through holes in the floor if they are flexible enough for that suggestion.

 

Same problem of access and probably even worse as most Coaches are a real pain to access the interior.

[Tony Wright]

One obvious problem with the Lamp idea, is having to take the Brake van apart every time the battery dies. Much better if viable to fix underneath for access to the battery in due course. Perhaps the wires could be better routed through holes in the floor if they are flexible enough for that suggestion.

 

Same problem of access and probably even worse as most Coaches are a real pain to access the interior.

A good idea Mick; many thanks. 

 

The battery life is estimated to be over 400 hours. Since the lamp is only lit when the van is in motion, that could well be a long time before replacement is necessary (after four minutes of non-movement, the light goes out and stays out until the van moves again). 

 

The feeds from the LED are not really flexible, though really thin flexible leads could be soldered on to them. 

 

Coach lighting? I've been given a set of lights for that application as well. I'll report accordingly. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

 

 

Another couple of Little Bytham 'cutting room floor' MRJ images. In fairness, these are definitely not MRJ-style, though they do show scenic progress. 

 

 

Here's one loco I should collect next week in an attempt to find a new home for it on behalf of the partner of a deceased friend. It's appeared before. It's very well-built from a DJH kit and perfectly painted (I think) by Larry Goddard. Perhaps Larry might like to comment, please. It runs superbly and is one of the best models I've seen of one of these 'Skittle Alleys'. In view of its excellence, I'll be looking at over £600.00, or near, with a percentage of the sale going to Cancer Research. I'll make sure it's in perfect running order (it won't have been used for a year). If anyone is interested, please PM me. I intend to take it to the Warley Show, but, as a demonstrator I'm not (quite rightly) allowed to sell things. However, it can be seen. 

 

 

Not in the same league, and not in the same price bracket, is this dinky little ex-M&GNR 0-6-0. Around three figures should secure this, especially if I fit flanged centre drivers. 

[Tony Wright]

Did I spot an Ernie Ranking Gray three link coupling in one of those photographs? 10d a set whem I bought my first.

 

P

You did indeed. 

 

It could even be an ERG wagon - it's made of wood and paper. I've had it over 55 years, and it came from Bournemouth. I'm a sentimental old fool!

[Tony Wright]

Tony

 

I like the idea of the brake van tail light. It would work on O Gauge as well with a scaled up 3D printed lamp. If the light is considered too bright it could be toned down with some red paint, less expensive than a resistor.

 

I presume the same fitting could also be used for an end of passenger coach rake?

 

Paul

Paul,

 

It could well be used for O Gauge, 'inside' a proper lamp. As I mentioned, I had it on the brighter of the settings (largely to get a picture). And, as you correctly surmise, it would do just as well at the end of a passenger rake. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[St Enodoc]

Andrew,

 

With the greatest of respect I'm not sure what to make of some comments.

 

Perhaps it does look Christmassy, though the wires are more prominent in my picture than to the naked eye. The figure disguises the wires from the side.

 

Whether this product is meant for the 'serious' modeller, I'm not sure; probably not. The proprietor, a most generous and genuine man, is producing products like this to encourage folk to 'have a go themselves'. To go beyond just buying stuff complete and try 'personalising' something. Dismantling the brake van in question was not difficult and fixing in the LED and its battery were simplicity itself. He had several products at the Spalding Show, including this one and, if nothing else, they seemed of great interest to the youngsters. Even if the thing does look like a cherry-topped piece of confection (because I take razor-sharp pictures), if it brings youngsters into the hobby, then does that matter? Had I the time, I'd have fashioned a handle of some description and made it look more like a tail lamp.

 

At a time when a very large number of modellers seem to be either using stuff straight from the box or getting others to do their modelling for them, I think producing something for people to tackle themselves - at Yuletide; how apposite - should be encouraged, even if it looks 'edible'.

 

I'm sure many will disagree with me.  

Tony, for the avoidance of doubt my "Agree" rating is with regard to the first part of your post, not to the final sentence!

[Tony Wright]

I can see why you omitted the third one Tony.  That A4 has lost its brick chimney!

Rob,

 

The omitting was not mine, though it isn't one of the best, I admit. 

 

I took the pictures over several months and a few of those discarded did not show the progress now made. For instance, there are no ground dolls in the third picture. 

[Tony Wright]

Tony, for the avoidance of doubt my "Agree" rating is with regard to the first part of your post, not to the final sentence!

Thanks John,

 

I did think long before posting the final sentence. As it stands it's provocative (and I get on very well with Andrew Teale), but I still put it in. 

 

Had I written it in the opposite way, it could have seemed even more provocative. Or, at least 'brown-nosing' and even sycophantic. 

 

Still, at least this thread could never be described as 'dull'. Or, at least, that's my view. 

[Headstock]

Andrew,

 

With the greatest of respect I'm not sure what to make of some comments.

 

Perhaps it does look Christmassy, though the wires are more prominent in my picture than to the naked eye. The figure disguises the wires from the side.

 

Whether this product is meant for the 'serious' modeller, I'm not sure; probably not. The proprietor, a most generous and genuine man, is producing products like this to encourage folk to 'have a go themselves'. To go beyond just buying stuff complete and try 'personalising' something. Dismantling the brake van in question was not difficult and fixing in the LED and its battery were simplicity itself. He had several products at the Spalding Show, including this one and, if nothing else, they seemed of great interest to the youngsters. Even if the thing does look like a cherry-topped piece of confection (because I take razor-sharp pictures), if it brings youngsters into the hobby, then does that matter? Had I the time, I'd have fashioned a handle of some description and made it look more like a tail lamp.

 

At a time when a very large number of modellers seem to be either using stuff straight from the box or getting others to do their modelling for them, I think producing something for people to tackle themselves - at Yuletide; how apposite - should be encouraged, even if it looks 'edible'.

 

I'm sure many will disagree with me.  

 

 I'm reallly not that seriouse, honest.

[96701]

Thanks John,

 

I did think long before posting the final sentence. As it stands it's provocative (and I get on very well with Andrew Teale), but I still put it in. 

 

Had I written it in the opposite way, it could have seemed even more provocative. Or, at least 'brown-nosing' and even sycophantic. 

 

Still, at least this thread could never be described as 'dull'. Or, at least, that's my view. 

Tony, your posts never appear to be neither sycophantic nor dull. Provocative is fine. Please keep up the good work. 

[Tony Wright]

Tony, your posts never appear to be neither sycophantic nor dull. Provocative is fine. Please keep up the good work. 

Provocative? 

 

Haven't you used a double negative there, Phil? 

[Tony Wright]

Just going through the list of potential locomotives for sale, there appears to be an Aspinall 4-4-2 High-Flyer and a small-boilered Claughton, both in LMS livery (lined red, I think). I'll take pictures once I have them.

 

Going through some more back-of-fag-packet calculations, it makes me wonder how much some really well-built and well-painted locos might be worth. On Tuesday I'll collect two locos from Ian Rathbone, one in LNER lined black, the other in LNER lined green. The former is a D2, the latter a P2 (EARL MARISCHAL as-built). That gives me time to make sure they're ready for operation on Grantham at Warley. I'm not boasting that the locos are well-built (others must make their minds up about that) but there'll certainly be well-painted. And, high-quality painting does not come cheap, nor should it. Ian charges £300.00 to paint a 4mm big engine in full LNER green livery. So, what price that Raven A2 shown earlier? If it is a Larry Goddard paint job then it'll be at least the equal of anything painted by other top painters. It seems that the limited edition DJH kit for it now commands a high premium, and what of the cost to build it? The cost of the painting and the cost of all the bits will take it to £500.00, or more. Though there isn't an RTR Raven A2, there is a P2; admittedly not the same as 2002. How much does that cost? I got £90.00 for an unused SH example, and the livery was perfect. 

 

Food for thought?

Edited November 20, 2016 by Tony Wright

[96701]

Provocative? 

 

Haven't you used a double negative there, Phil? 

'Fraid so sir. I consider myself chastised.

[The Stationmaster]

Just going through the list of potential locomotives for sale, there appears to be an Aspinall 4-4-2 High-Flyer and a small-boilered Claughton, both in LMS livery (lined red, I think). I'll take pictures once I have them.

 

Going through some more back-of-fag-packet calculations, it makes me wonder how much some really well-built and well-painted locos might be worth. On Tuesday I'll collect two locos from Ian Rathbone, one in LNER lined black, the other in LNER lined green. The former is a D2, the latter a P2 (EARL MARISCHAL as-built). That gives me time to make sure they're ready for operation on Grantham at Warley. I'm not boasting that the locos are well-built (others must make their minds up about that) but there'll certainly be well-painted. And, high-quality painting does not come cheap, nor should it. Ian charges £300.00 to paint a 4mm big engine in full LNER green livery. I believe Micklner charges £250.00. So, what price that Raven A2 shown earlier? If it is a Larry Goddard paint job then it'll be at least the equal of anything painted by other top painters. It seems that the limited edition DJH kit for it now commands a high premium, and what of the cost to build it? The cost of the painting and the cost of all the bits will take it to £500.00, or more. Though there isn't an RTR Raven A2, there is a P2; admittedly not the same as 2002. How much does that cost? I got £90.00 for an unused SH example, and the livery was perfect. 

 

Food for thought?

 

It all depends on the market you sell into and the provenance (daft tho' the latter might sound).  If the builder and/or painter is a 'name' then the noughts go tumbling onto the end of the number which follows the £ sign or that number rockets upwards.  If you can get a Larry Goddard painted coach in good condition for less than £100 at a live auction as a single item you'll be doing well although the cost per coach might come down slightly if the auction lot is a rake of 4 or 5 (although the opposite can apply).  A really good (are there any others?) Larry Goddard fully lined paint job on a loco will have a huge effect on the price and the same goes for Brackenborough as both are 'known names'.

 

The Raven A2 would in some circumstances be a steal at £600 but as always it depends on what potential buyers are out there but we are talking about a rather different market from that involving most people who buy locos just to run on their layouts.  Some folk look on models like this as investments (which strikes me as bl**dy daft to be honest) while there are some who want them for the pure pleasure of owning something be it a model of that class, or an example of work attributed to Larry, or a mixture of the two.  As someone partially descended from an NER family (the other half was GWR of course) it would be something I would love to own just for the sake of what it is (despite being in LNER livery!) although it's completely irrelevant to my modelling interests; there are folk about like that but, unlike me, with oodles of cash.

[Norton961]

I have enjoyed reading through this read and love the eclectic nature of the items posted. I would comment on a number of different items as follows?

Layout design. Having been involved with a number of Club and group layouts before I commenced the planning and execution of my first (and only) layout I thought long and hard about why I was building a layout. To me it became clear that little attention is given to freight only locations. Passenger trains can pass, but the emphasis is on the operation of freight. Don Rowlands layouts have been my inspiration so I am building a model of a real location (Trench Sidings in Shropshire) which is an interchange sidings with a curved connection into a canal basin and ironworks.i attend a number of exhibitions every year but rarely come across a layout that does not include a station. At the end of the day we model what we want, but I enjoy the inspiration from other people's layouts irrespective of scale and gauge.

Unusual Loco workings. Saltleys re built Scots (between 1961 and 1962) seem to have been borrowed by other depots, so 46103 Royal Scots Fusiler was seen at York on an express and 46162 Queens Westminster Rifleman was borrowed by Burton shed to work a local goods to Cadley Hill and Dodisthorpe collieries. The severe winter of 1962/3 led to re built Scots working Liverpool to Newcastle services all the way to Newcastle(46114, 46168 ( this was a Springs Branch Wigan loco!) 45531 also worked all the way to Newcastle on a Liverpool service. The winter of 1962/3 led to a large number of "out of the ordinary" loco workings and is well worth reading up on.

[Focalplane]

Mr Samuel, the founder of Shell, when asked about the price of oil, famously said "the price of an article is what it will fetch."

 

I suppose the same applies to kit built locomotives. As a far-from-famous "name" I decided long ago that I would be a fool to think that anything I build would ever sell for more than the component parts, and even then I might be fortunate. It's not that my kit building is worthless to me, far from it. But why would anyone else have a higher opinion?

[Black Marlin]

Some time ago - around page 480 - there was a discussion of the perils of photograph captioning in the railway press. A few weeks ago I was at the Aberdeen Model Railway exhibition (where my complete Queen of Scots rake, renamed and renumbered where appropriate, thanks to Tony's encouragement, made an appearance) and I bought a book of impeccable pedigree: 'Roaming the Northern Rails' by Eric Treacy and first published in 1976 by Ian Allen (although my copy is a 1994 reprint).

Unfortunately, there is such a double-whammy of a howler in the captioning that I'm not sure how much of the book I can trust. Page 167 features a picture captioned "Kestrel at Sandal with the Up 'Yorkshire Pullman'." Meanwhile, on page 188, there is a picture captioned "Falcon adds the Harrogate portion of the 'Yorkshire Pullman' to the Leeds cars at Leeds Central."

Not only is the locomotive identified as both Kestrel and Falcon the same locomotive, neither identification is correct - it's Lion!

This provokes a whole host of questions for me (mostly of a professional bent: I work as a copy-editor and proof-reader) but the biggest one is this: when a book from a well-known publisher, by a well-known author and photographer, can drop a clanger on a scale such as this, what faith are we to put in the reference sources at our disposal? And who, with the best will in the world, would lay such claim to their own infallibility that they would prowl confidently round an exhibition and disparage the rivets?!

Gavin

[gr.king]

Mouthwatering as it certainly is at first glance, and I do so wish I had one myself, that Raven A2 appears to have the potential to pose problems to some buyers if they want to run it. I'm thinking of the cylinders, which appear to be  set well out from their proper positions, presumably to give the bogie room to move. Will they clear platforms, especially where curvature is involved too? The wheel flanges look quite deep too. How many of us would fancy putting the first class paint job at risk by attempting any mechanical alterations?

[Tony Wright]

It all depends on the market you sell into and the provenance (daft tho' the latter might sound).  If the builder and/or painter is a 'name' then the noughts go tumbling onto the end of the number which follows the £ sign or that number rockets upwards.  If you can get a Larry Goddard painted coach in good condition for less than £100 at a live auction as a single item you'll be doing well although the cost per coach might come down slightly if the auction lot is a rake of 4 or 5 (although the opposite can apply).  A really good (are there any others?) Larry Goddard fully lined paint job on a loco will have a huge effect on the price and the same goes for Brackenborough as both are 'known names'.

 

The Raven A2 would in some circumstances be a steal at £600 but as always it depends on what potential buyers are out there but we are talking about a rather different market from that involving most people who buy locos just to run on their layouts.  Some folk look on models like this as investments (which strikes me as bl**dy daft to be honest) while there are some who want them for the pure pleasure of owning something be it a model of that class, or an example of work attributed to Larry, or a mixture of the two.  As someone partially descended from an NER family (the other half was GWR of course) it would be something I would love to own just for the sake of what it is (despite being in LNER livery!) although it's completely irrelevant to my modelling interests; there are folk about like that but, unlike me, with oodles of cash.

Wise words as always, Mke,

 

My intention is (obviously) to get the very best prices for the partner of my deceased friend. She, nor her family, haven't a clue as to what the collection might be worth (why should she?) so I'm assisting as best I can, along with several splendid Spalding MRC members who are doing the real work in sorting and listing what is an extensive collection. The deceased did not make many models himself; he was a commissioner; of some high-quality stuff. 

 

It's true that a model commissioned will always cost more than that model's worth should it be sold on. Having photographed many of the wonderful locos which Geoff Holt built for David Jenkinson in O Gauge (which Larry painted), I was astonished at how low a price many of them made at auction. 

 

As you say, it's bl**dy daft to consider such models as an investment, though some collectors I've spoken to consider their collections of mint Dinky or Hornby Dublo toys (my description) will supplement their pensions. I'm not so sure. 

 

As many have quite rightly said, the real 'value' in a model is in the personal making of it by and for oneself. Though those that commission models will enjoy the ownership of those things and even take pride in their possessions, that's really just what they are - possessions, in some cases of a high value. The guy/girl making things for him/herself, however humble in comparison to the work of the best in the game, will, in my opinion, always derive greater ultimate satisfaction. Though the commissioner might have the better models, he/she has no right, in my view, to then pass critical judgement on the work of others. I've listened to it, in my own home. 

[Tony Wright]

Mouthwatering as it certainly is at first glance, and I do so wish I had one myself, that Raven A2 appears to have the potential to pose problems to some buyers if they want to run it. I'm thinking of the cylinders, which appear to be  set well out from their proper positions, presumably to give the bogie room to move. Will they clear platforms, especially where curvature is involved too? The wheel flanges look quite deep too. How many of us would fancy putting the first class paint job at risk by attempting any mechanical alterations?

Graeme, 

 

It had no problem clearing the platform faces at Little Bytham, nor did it stutter going round three foot curves. 

 

I think the 'deep' flanges are a bit of an optical illusion. The drivers are the older-style Romfords, pre-RP 25s. Many of my own locos still use those but (because their wheels are black and the rims are painted black?) they don't look too gross. 

 

I should have it with me at Warley. If it's all right with Graham, perhaps we can give it a spin on Grantham. 

[Barry Ten]

Prices for locomotives, both unassembled and finished, seem to be all over the place. I've been keeping a careful eye on ebay over the last year or so, looking out for various things, including GWR

tenders. One day that same search brought me to a partly assembled Wills Castle, complete with tender, chassis and wheels, for just a bit over 25 pounds. That would have been a bargain just for

the tender parts, but as the basis for a complete locomotive, it was incredible and I snapped it up. On the other hand, I've seen unassembled or indifferently assembled models sit around at what I'd consider inflated or unrealistic prices, for months on end.

 

Even when a model looks to be built to a good standard, there are a host of risks for the purchaser. What does "good runner" mean? If Tony says something runs well, we all know what he means, but to someone else, it could be called a good runner just because it moves under power. As mentioned above, minimum operating radius is also a concern and it'll rarely be mentioned in the description. And if the loco turns out to need some attention, how easy will it be to dismantle, tweak etc?

 

Buying unassembled or part-assembled models seems to be a slightly safer option to me as at least then you've got the option of making them run to your standards.

[Tony Wright]

Some time ago - around page 480 - there was a discussion of the perils of photograph captioning in the railway press. A few weeks ago I was at the Aberdeen Model Railway exhibition (where my complete Queen of Scots rake, renamed and renumbered where appropriate, thanks to Tony's encouragement, made an appearance) and I bought a book of impeccable pedigree: 'Roaming the Northern Rails' by Eric Treacy and first published in 1976 by Ian Allen (although my copy is a 1994 reprint).

 

Unfortunately, there is such a double-whammy of a howler in the captioning that I'm not sure how much of the book I can trust. Page 167 features a picture captioned "Kestrel at Sandal with the Up 'Yorkshire Pullman'." Meanwhile, on page 188, there is a picture captioned "Falcon adds the Harrogate portion of the 'Yorkshire Pullman' to the Leeds cars at Leeds Central."

 

Not only is the locomotive identified as both Kestrel and Falcon the same locomotive, neither identification is correct - it's Lion!

 

This provokes a whole host of questions for me (mostly of a professional bent: I work as a copy-editor and proof-reader) but the biggest one is this: when a book from a well-known publisher, by a well-known author and photographer, can drop a clanger on a scale such as this, what faith are we to put in the reference sources at our disposal? And who, with the best will in the world, would lay such claim to their own infallibility that they would prowl confidently round an exhibition and disparage the rivets?!

 

Gavin

Gavin,

 

Captioning pictures always runs the risk of one being a hostage to fortune. Despite careful checking, there are a couple of bloopers in my latest Deltic book from Irwell. In one, I suggest that an express is from the West Riding (when it's the Up Flying Scotsman) and I can't tell my right from left (east from west) in another. 

 

What I would say is that most of my books have my scribblings in the margins, correcting facts/dates/locations, etc; even those by the RCTS and Yeadon. 

 

In Eric Treacy's case he very rarely took notes with regard to the pictures he took. It subsequently makes it very difficult for future caption-writers. 

[micklner]

Mouthwatering as it certainly is at first glance, and I do so wish I had one myself, that Raven A2 appears to have the potential to pose problems to some buyers if they want to run it. I'm thinking of the cylinders, which appear to be  set well out from their proper positions, presumably to give the bogie room to move. Will they clear platforms, especially where curvature is involved too? The wheel flanges look quite deep too. How many of us would fancy putting the first class paint job at risk by attempting any mechanical alterations?

 

I have built one , I can confirm she doesn't like curves very much. The main problem is the rear "support"wheel where a Cartazzi would be , due the length of the Loco and it being fixed with zero movement. No wonder they were nicknamed Skittle Alleys in their day.

 

 

edit

 

No idea if this really affects their current value? .

 

They were limited edition kits there is kit for one on ebay at the moment currently at just under £150. This is the NER  Tender variation with the NER 6 wheel tender as the photo above, the box says one of 175 made. The one I have is pulling the LNER non corridor new type Tender one of a 100 according to the box. There was also the last variation made with the Gresley A1/3 Boiler and LNER Tender which I believe is the rarest of the three versions , no idea how many made , I have only seen one of them in a photograph. I know Mr JWealleans has one running on Grantham in recent posts. 

 

Good photo of the variations in their short lives

 

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by micklner