Wright writes.....

[LNER4479]

It might well be running on Grantham at the Warley Show over the weekend. 

...provided her wheels are scrupulously clean, with all pickups in contact and she sports a working buck-eye (aka Kadee*) on t'back of tender! (*can be provided by the local motive power superintendent)

 

Looks nice. Can't imagine why he chose that one...

Edited November 21, 2016 by LNER4479

[2750Papyrus]

Andrew,

 

With the greatest of respect I'm not sure what to make of some comments.

 

Perhaps it does look Christmassy, though the wires are more prominent in my picture than to the naked eye. The figure disguises the wires from the side.

 

Whether this product is meant for the 'serious' modeller, I'm not sure; probably not. The proprietor, a most generous and genuine man, is producing products like this to encourage folk to 'have a go themselves'. To go beyond just buying stuff complete and try 'personalising' something. Dismantling the brake van in question was not difficult and fixing in the LED and its battery were simplicity itself. He had several products at the Spalding Show, including this one and, if nothing else, they seemed of great interest to the youngsters. Even if the thing does look like a cherry-topped piece of confection (because I take razor-sharp pictures), if it brings youngsters into the hobby, then does that matter? Had I the time, I'd have fashioned a handle of some description and made it look more like a tail lamp.

 

At a time when a very large number of modellers seem to be either using stuff straight from the box or getting others to do their modelling for them, I think producing something for people to tackle themselves - at Yuletide; how apposite - should be encouraged, even if it looks 'edible'.

 

I'm sure many will disagree with me.  

 

Apologies for delay in commenting - I did try and post several days ago but for some reason it got lost.

 

Our hobby is a very broad church and caters for many different tastes (roundy-roundies to shunting planks).  Personally, I think the addition of working lights to models adds realism. 

 

I still have a Trix brake van with working lights from the 50's.  Power came from pick-up shoes, so conversion from 3 to 2 rail operation was easy.  A bulb was located inside the van, which lighted the guards compartment, and a (covered) perspex rod led across the veranda to a rear lamp with red lens.  Trix also used perspex rod in their searchlight type colour signals and I suppose were, in their way, pioneers in the use of fibre optics.

 

I shall be buying at least one of the Train-Tronics rear lights for a kit-built brake van due to the ease of installation.  However, given more time, the DCC concepts route would enable modelling of the side lights as well.  Has any DCC user fitted a chip to a brake van to control on/off and intensity of lighting? 

[coachmann]

I was going to respond with thanks to Larry Goddard's earlier post about the Raven A2, but it seems to have disappeared (the post, not the loco). 

 

When I get the loco, I'll check on any signature underneath it and let folk know.

Sorry Tony, I merely regard posts as 'conversations' and often delete them if they corpse. At one time I could look at a model and know when it was painted but there are too many years under my belt now, in fact this is my 45th year in business painting & lining. Back at the beginning I was one of the young 'uns in a model trade dominated by much older men we had taken for granted during our childhood.

[Tony Wright]

 

 

With wheels scrupulously clean and the correct headlamp code (if a bit wonky), Jesse's A4 just romped around LB, even though it is DCC. 

 

A tonic indeed; a young man not yet 21, keen as mustard to do things by/for himself in the hobby. More of his sort are needed. 

[MarkC]

Whereabouts? I can offer two possible solutions.

LNER Modellers group on the Book of Face.

 

Help would be appreciated by the chaps involved

[MarkC]

 

 

Re A8 problems 52F Models do a replacement chassis.

Hi Mick

 

Yes, I'm building one at the moment. Very nice bit of kit.

 

The problems are with other folks' A8s - they're both doing the DJH chassis

[jwealleans]

Tony, I was at Wakefield all weekend and so missed most of the discussion on lighting units and batteries.

 

Roy Mears has used these units on some of the stock he's built, especially the Tourist set we had at Nottingham (but shan't have with us this weekend as far as I know). He makes a slot in the floor of the carriage to allow batteries to be changed and puts a switch in the vestibule connector to turn them on or off. Batteries slot up into toilet compartments or brake areas where possible, vestibule ends otherwise. I'm sure he can give you more details.

 

To return to the poster who suggested the GN etches I have may be J & M; they aren't, as I have some of the J & M ones as well, but they are for the same vehicles.

 

The 'twin' the etches make seems to be 2/3 of a triplet set. No-one offers the necessary luggage composite any more, but the J & M etches were for the same vehicles, so having got this far with these, I may well use one of the J & M carriages to complete it.

 

After that it really will be into the diagram books as there were only two of these sets and I now have enough bodies to make up 3 and two incomplete ones.

Edited November 22, 2016 by jwealleans

[drmditch]

Hi Mick

 

Yes, I'm building one at the moment. Very nice bit of kit.

 

The problems are with other folks' A8s - they're both doing the DJH chassis

The problem with all the NER outside cylindered locomotives with a leading bogie is that there is little clearance for the bogie wheels. At least this is prototypical!

K Hoole in his book on the NER Atlantics reports Zs coming into Darlington Bank Top with the trailing bogie wheels locked and skidding.

 

Although my solution on my A8 is relatively 'low-tech', it does work.

 

 

 

This is actually constructed from a very old DJH kit for an H1, purchased from the Newcastle Model Shop in the early 80s.

(It does get so annoying when people refer to events a mere 36 years ago as 'history'!)

 

It was one of my first attempts at kit building, and stopped when I found I couldn't get it to go round corners.

Much later it was subject to a (prototypical) rebuild into an A8, with a much hacked about chassis incorporating a Comet two stage gearbox and a large Mashima motor.

 

The cylinder problem was resolved as follows:-

 

- Discarding the DJH cylinders and bogie, which in my opinion never look right.

- Building a new cylinder assembly around a brass mandrel, but with the cylinder covers built up in plastic.

- Offseting the slide bars outboard of where they should be by 1mm.

- (This becomes pretty invisible on the completed model unless you know to look for it.)

- Scratch-building a new bogie, with the wheelbase improperly extended by 2mm

- Incorporating a curved slot which moves the bogie forward by about 2mm on curves.

 

 

 

The result, while not brilliant, does go round 24" radius curves, and has the cylinders flush with the footplate valance.

 

The model also has the flange and balance pipe at the bottom of the side tanks which I haven't seen on other models.

 

Since these (rather inadequate) pictures were taken this model has had it's cast whitemetal cab roof replaced by a new and much thinner one in brass. At the same shopping the cylinders were

so that they now look level. I must take some better pictures!

 

It might be a bit dangerous to drive because it does at present lack brakes. It's a complex wheelbase to get working freely, and having got it running I'm reluctant to handle it too much.

However, I do have an idea that might work!

 

(Apart of course from replacing the chassis with a 52F one!)

 

 

And if anyone points out that the bogie wheelsets have the wrong number of spokes I would answer that these were what I had in stock at the time, and that they are insulated on one side

only so that the bogie is live on the opposite side to the main chassis. Having got that working I'm reluctant to play around with it! One day perhaps, if they annoy me a lot!

Edited November 22, 2016 by drmditch

[MarkC]

The problem with all the NER outside cylindered locomotives with a leading bogie is that there is little clearance for the bogie wheels. At least this is prototypical!

K Hoole in his book on the NER Atlantics reports Zs coming into Darlington Bank Top with the trailing bogie wheels locked and skidding.

 

Although my solution on my A8 is relatively 'low-tech', it does work.

 

Post_07x.JPG

 

 

This is actually constructed from a very old DJH kit for an H1, purchased from the Newcastle Model Shop in the early 80s.

(It does get so annoying when people refer to events a mere 36 years ago as 'history'!)

 

It was one of my first attempts at kit building, and stopped when I found I couldn't get it to go round corners.

Much later it was subject to a (prototypical) rebuild into an A8, with a much hacked about chassis incorporating a Comet two stage gearbox and a large Mashima motor.

 

The cylinder problem was resolved as follows:-

 

- Discarding the DJH cylinders and bogie, which in my opinion never look right.

- Building a new cylinder assembly around a brass mandrel, but with the cylinder covers built up in plastic.

- Offseting the slide bars outboard of where they should be by 1mm.

- (This becomes pretty invisible on the completed model unless you know to look for it.)

- Scratch-building a new bogie, with the wheelbase improperly extended by 2mm

- Incorporating a curved slot which moves the bogie forward by about 2mm on curves.

 

Post_03.JPG

 

 

The result, while not brilliant, does go round 24" radius curves, and has the cylinders flush with the footplate valance.

 

The model also has the flange and balance pipe at the bottom of the side tanks which I haven't seen on other models.

 

Since these (rather inadequate) pictures were taken this model has had it's cast whitematal cab rood replaced by a new and much thinner one in brass.

 

It might be a bit dangerous to drive because it does at present lack brakes. It's a complex wheelbase to get working freely, and having got it running I'm reluctant to handle it too much.

However, I do have an idea that might work!

 

(Apart of course from replacing the chassis with a 52F one!)

 

Post_13.JPG

 

And if anyone points out that the bogie wheelsets have the wrong number of spokes I would answer that these were what I had in stock at the time, and that they are insulated on one side

only so that the bogie is live on the opposite side to the main chassis. Having got that working I'm reluctant to play around with it! One day perhaps, if they annoy me a lot!

Thanks for the post . That's pretty much the mod I was looking at doing on my A8 until I decided to go down the 52F route

 

I hope it helps others. It's a weakness on these otherwise excellent DJH offerings. How did Little Engines get round it on their A7 kits, I wonder?

 

I know what you mean about 36 years as 'history' - probably best stop there though...

 

What a nice job you made of your rebuild too - there's something imposing about these big NER tanks, isn't there?

 

I'm hoping that the chaps who are struggling with their A8s will come along to this tread - one is alrady of this parish, and hopefully the other one will join too.

 

Cheers

Mark

[Porcy Mane]

  Has any DCC user fitted a chip to a brake van to control on/off and intensity of lighting? 

  

I've done a couple for others. To get track voltage to the chip I used Bill Bedfords W irons  fitted with wheels insulated on one side only and fitted in opposition to each other so in effect each W iron was live to opposite rails. I used the electrically live W irons to avoid using wiper pick ups.

 

First one used an old loco chip that had been replaced by an updated version. I just used one of the function outputs  with the output voltage programmed to give 1.5 volts. It worked fine but as the pick up was in effect one axle only the LED could occasionally flicker when encountering a dead spot.

 

The second used a chip introduced just a few years ago that came supplied with a stay alive capacitor.  As it was a new manufacturer, I'd bought the chip to play about with but I wasn't impressed with its performance so it went into another brake van. The addition of the stay alive meant the led remained constantly lit and stayed illuminated for a good few seconds after powering down the layout .

 

I must admit to liking the idea of the motion sensor on the Train-tech DC type mentioned above. Wish I'd thought of it.

 

hth

 

P

Edited November 22, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Mallard60022]

Jesse A4 02.jpg

 

Jesse A4 03.jpg

 

With wheels scrupulously clean and the correct headlamp code (if a bit wonky), Jesse's A4 just romped around LB, even though it is DCC. 

 

A tonic indeed; a young man not yet 21, keen as mustard to do things by/for himself in the hobby. More of his sort are needed. 

OK, I'm being really dim but I need to ask this. As the lovely looking A4 is DCC how did you 'adjust it' for DC running? Is it just set the CV whatevers for DC operations ?

Thank you.

Phil

[bgman]

OK, I'm being really dim but I need to ask this. As the lovely looking A4 is DCC how did you 'adjust it' for DC running? Is it just set the CV whatevers for DC operations ?

Thank you.

Phil

Quackers,

You can alter CV 29 in DCC decoders for running on a DC set up and I believe most are set to default to do this ( stands to be corrected ) but it may be found that the control knob needs to be turned more in DC to do this.

 

G

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi all,

 

I cant keep pace with this Thread - inspiring though as always, even if I cant keep up!

 

As I am fettling MK1 coach-ends (I can Post photos at a later date) - I have 4 x set of BSK sides and 1 x set of BG sides ready for paint-striping and then reassembly so the destruction phase for Brakes is nearly done for the time being. When the basic shells are ready I shall put them to one side and carry on finishing off one or two other projects - but I digress.

 

When looking for my stock of Peter Cowling coach ends (Peter produces them in resin for his own superb RTR layout coaches and they are for early MK1s hence my fettling them to later MK1 trim - I suspect that Peter does the same) I came across an old copy of; Hornby Railways 28th Edition (1982) Catalogue....what a joy to flick through, simpler times. 1982 seems like yesterday and it was about the time that motorbikes, beer and woemen seemed more interesting as past-times - although my step-brother and I were still trying to create an overly ambitious '00' layout - never completed of course (a combination of poor planning and a preoccupation with motorbikes, beer etc - what fools we were!). Just prior circa 1979-1981 I was helping to build and operate-with Zero 1-a large LNER layout with family friends, what fun! Anyway came across this in the intro to the catalogue;-

 

"CREATIVE HOBBY

In the days before the television age, families made their own entertainment. Model trains then were a popular hobby. To-day (sic) with the wider and greater superior range of models available, those who seek activity rather than IDLENESS [my emphasis] are drawn to model railways for the satisfaction of creating a layout, however small, and making it come to life by their own efforts."

 

Hear, hear I say!

 

There were other headings such as; Staying Power, Nostalgia, Realism etc etc....there was even mention of 'fondling engines', not sure but they may have been straying into playboy territory there?! Ha Ha!

 

There was also a comments/your questions answered section - very quaint pre-internet, here is just a snippet;

 

" L.M.S. 2-6-4T LOCOMOTIVE

Customer;-.".....but have noticed that you have missed out the steam pipes from the boiler to the cylinders. Is there any particular reason for this?"

 

Hornby;- "The answer is that the steam pipes were fitted internally on No. 2300 and many others of the class, as shown in the photograph [hereunder]. There were a number of differences between individual locomotives. Some had flush head riveting, others had proud rivets. Later examples had glazed cab windows to give better protection to the crews. Outside steam pipes were fitted to several members of the class in BR days."

 

That was him told (I am guessing that '2300' was R055 a limited edition at £23.95 RRP)!

 

There were 5 letters and replies, with some opening with such;- 

 

Customer;-"....we particularly like the sight of smoke coming from the chimney of our LMS Compound loco. Why dont you add this feature to all of the others, it would make them more realistic....."

 

Hornby were very polite in replying to that one. Sadly I would have told them that smoke, water, sound doesnt scale all that well <ducks for cover as he grabs his coat ready for a sharp exit!>

 

Oh such simple days!

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited November 22, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[mullie]

Talking of simpler things, I needed some ancient looking coaches for my layout until such time I have the skills to tackle something more demanding and authentic. I had a couple of the old Hornby clerestory coaches and on minimal budget decided to see what I could do with them.

 

The results have been seen on the 'How realistic' thread but I hope no one minds me posting photos here. Underframe was knocked up from scrap brass to practice my soldering skills.

 

 

Interior and passengers were added, didn't change much else; added footboards to the bogies changed the couplings, wheels and close coupled the pair. 

 

 

 

It is likely they will be in use for a few years so will have to tide me over.

 

I used to buy the Hornby catalogues in the early 80s and spent many hours looking at them dreaming about the models I would never have the budget to own. 

 

Martyn

Edited November 22, 2016 by mullie

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Talking of simpler things, I needed some ancient looking coaches for my layout until such time I have the skills to tackle something more demanding and authentic. I had a couple of the old Hornby clerestory coaches and on minimal budget decided to see hat I could do with them.

 

The results have been seen on the 'How realistic' thread but I hope no one minds me posting photos here. Underframe was knocked up from scrap brass to practice my soldering skills.

 

DSC_0027_Fotor.jpg

 

Interior and passengers were added, didn't change much else; added footboards to the bogies changed the couplings, wheels and close coupled the pair. 

 

DSC_0001.JPG

 

DSC_0004.JPG

 

It is likely they will be in use for a few years so will have to tide me over.

 

I used to buy the Hornby catalogues in the early 80s and spent many hours looking at them dreaming about the models I would never have the budget to own. 

 

Martyn

Hi Martyn,

 

Nowt wrong with those Martyn and perfectly acceptable on a layout until such times as you wish to upgrade - very nice with a very authentic look to them.

 

Kindest regards,

 

M.

Edited November 22, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Footbridge 10.jpg

 

The last of the 'rejected' MRJ pictures - not surprising because it's not really the right style. The MRJ leads the way in realistic model photography and is still excellent at it. 

 

I've included this more because of the loco; a Little Engines O4 built, painted and weathered by Tony Geary. Of course, now we have the RTR Bachmann version, at a fraction of the cost of the component parts for this model. But, this is much more a personal creation. I bought it when Tony took up O Gauge. I've built several O4s (and their derivatives) for myself and others, but it's still nice to have such a lovely model as this. Yes, it's my possession now, certainly not my creation, but I can fully appreciate what went into it. 

Hi Tony,

 

Your photography of LB and in general is superb - I enjoying seeing good layouts from various angles and I enjoy MRJs work, more so now that more of it is in colour.

 

My apologies if I have missed such, but what exactly is the house style for MRJ photos - is there a formula/procedure?

 

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

Kindest

 

M.

[Tony Wright]

OK, I'm being really dim but I need to ask this. As the lovely looking A4 is DCC how did you 'adjust it' for DC running? Is it just set the CV whatevers for DC operations ?

Thank you.

Phil

You're not dim Phil,

 

No adjustment was necessary. The only difference is it won't start straight away - it takes about a second after current is applied, then it just goes like an 'ordinary' loco. 

 

I've found that on numerous occasions when friends bring DCC locos round. Other than the slight delay in starting, they seem to run just (or very near) the same. 

 

As for altering CVs (what are they?), why do you think I stick with DC? I really have the best of both worlds - happy to be able to run both DC and DCC. 

 

I have to say Jesse has made a lovely job of weathering his A4. He's been with us now for a day and a half and he's like a sponge. He just wants to know how to build this or that, how to alter numbers, how to modify something, what the best way into kit-building is. The only thing I cannot teach him is more profanity (he's an Aussie, after all). This evening he watched me erect the valve gear on EARL MARISCHAL. Even when I soldered part of the motion solid (I didn't mean to), he never batted an eyelid as the air turned blue!

 

All we need are more young guys like him and the hobby's future will be assured. He doesn't want to just buy things, nor wants others to do things for him (though he's quite happy to barter skills). Perhaps there is room for optimism in the hobby after all. 

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony,

 

Your photography of LB and in general is superb - I enjoying seeing good layouts from various angles and I enjoy MRJs work, more so now that more of it is in colour.

 

My apologies if I have missed such, but what exactly is the house style for MRJ photos - is there a formula/procedure?

 

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

Kindest

 

M.

I think the MRJ photographic style is quite well-known. Barry Norman was among the first to abandon the 'helicopter' style of model railway photography. He'd place the camera on the track and get 'eye level' pictures. In a way, the approach was quite 'revolutionary' at the time.

 

Now, with tiny digital cameras (and even mobile phones), low-level shots are much easier to achieve. There is now a new generation of model railway photographers, some taking the craft to quite stunning levels with a mastery of stacking and so on. They've reached a standard way beyond what I might achieve. The only observation I'd make which I don't particularly care for is the too-lurid colours sometimes, particularly scenic greens.

 

I've mentioned how I take pictures before; a powerful (big ) camera and a lens which stops down to F32 (actually nearer F45). I don't know how to stack (I don't want to know) and I get depth of field just by optics. Andy York explained stacking to me and how he gets such great results with it. I just looked blank! 

[Tony Wright]

Talking of simpler things, I needed some ancient looking coaches for my layout until such time I have the skills to tackle something more demanding and authentic. I had a couple of the old Hornby clerestory coaches and on minimal budget decided to see what I could do with them.

 

The results have been seen on the 'How realistic' thread but I hope no one minds me posting photos here. Underframe was knocked up from scrap brass to practice my soldering skills.

 

DSC_0027_Fotor.jpg

 

Interior and passengers were added, didn't change much else; added footboards to the bogies changed the couplings, wheels and close coupled the pair. 

 

DSC_0001.JPG

 

DSC_0004.JPG

 

It is likely they will be in use for a few years so will have to tide me over.

 

I used to buy the Hornby catalogues in the early 80s and spent many hours looking at them dreaming about the models I would never have the budget to own. 

 

Martyn

Martyn,

 

Why would anyone object to your posting images of your work on this thread? 

 

Knowing many of the posters, they'll rejoice in it.

 

It's what you've done; nobody else. There is great merit in that. 

[Porcy Mane]

The only observation I'd make which I don't particularly care for is the too-lurid colours sometimes, particularly scenic greens.

 

Rather than being a product of digital photography or post photo editing I think over bright grass is often the result of a layout builders efforts. I can think of a few model railways were sunglasses could be an optional accessory when viewing. Admittedly real grass can almost fluoresce under certain light and weather conditions but not as regularly as I see at exhibitions.

 

P

[jwealleans]

I'd agree with that, but there are occasions when a combination of the shades of green, lighting and the camera can give very bizarre results.  The first time we had Thurston photographed for a magazine, the pictures all showed the ground cover as a horribly lurid shade which wasn't (as far as my eyes perceived it) the reality.

[LNER4479]

The only difference is it won't start straight away - it takes about a second after current is applied, then it just goes like an 'ordinary' loco. 

 

Memo to weekend fiddle yard operators - allocate No.4491 to non-stop workings only

[Porcy Mane]

The first time we had Thurston photographed for a magazine, the pictures all showed the ground cover as a horribly lurid shade which wasn't (as far as my eyes perceived it) the reality.

 

And thereby hangs another tale.

 

 

I can't speak of the current process but at the advent of digital photography there was quite a process involved in getting a digitally image (usually scanned from film) to the printed page. Quite often the printer's interpretation of colour could be quite different to the photographers. Then the printing machines interpretation of the commands it received from its operator would be something quite different again.

 

 

I've seen some quite heated arguments of the colour of colour in newspaper offices.

 

 

P

 

[Tony Wright]

 

Six months ago, the stripped frames for the P2 I'm building were delivered to Ian Rathbone for painting, along with the loco body and tender. Not how each wheelset has been identified to ensure, after painting, they go back in the right order. 

 

 

Yesterday, I got the whole loco back, beautifully-painted (as always). My task yesterday evening was to fit the motion (most having already been built). What a fight! A lot of the Ace bits weren't of much use because some of the parts seemed too small, and, having been reduced down from 7mm, some of the clearances were wafer-thin. I ended up using a mix of Comet parts as well. 

 

The brakes are now on and the second coat of black is on the cylinders. I'll post pictures of the completed loco in due course. 

 

As I mentioned yesterday, young Jesse from Australia looked on for a time. What amazed me, though, was my leaving him to run LB unattended (not the act of my leaving him but his complete ability to run trains perfectly). I just left him to it, for well over an hour. I don't remember having an almost total grasp of things new to me when I was young. Every time I operate the railway, I cock up somewhere. Not he. Perhaps all model railways should come with a free grandchild. 

[gr.king]

Nice to know that the reputation of ACE valve gear is un-dimmed.