Wright writes.....

[Focalplane]

As I understand it the French Mikados were influenced by American practice though the driving wheels were generally larger.  American Mikados were mostly designed for "dragging" slow, heavy freights and had smaller drivers.

 

The Mountain wheel arrangement or 4-8-2 was also used for faster steam locomotives.  The Southern Pacific MT-4, for example, was used for named expresses when the more powerful GS-4s (4-8-4) were not available.  And the Cab in Front wheel arrangement was, in the end, arranged as 4-8-8-2, the front bogies being under the cab, the cab being at the front(!).  They had a fair turn of speed though maximum speed was rarely attained due to the twisting tunneled terrain they were designed for.

[micklner]

I'm with Mike above - a raven Pacific would be quite something to own. Certainly a cut out of the ordinary. Doubt I'll buy in the auction but I'll certainly go and look the one on Tony's demo bench. I strongly suspect the eBay auction will finish considerably north of £200. Whilst that's not evidence of a market, hopefully it does show the djh's of this world there's still considerable interest in their products, particularly for less mainstream items

 

David

 

A2 went for £181

[MarkC]

A2 went for £181

I have to say, I thought it would go for much more too.

[The Stationmaster]

A2 went for £181

 

Somebody got a very good bargain there.

[Headstock]

As I understand it the French Mikados were influenced by American practice though the driving wheels were generally larger.  American Mikados were mostly designed for "dragging" slow, heavy freights and had smaller drivers.

 

The Mountain wheel arrangement or 4-8-2 was also used for faster steam locomotives.  The Southern Pacific MT-4, for example, was used for named expresses when the more powerful GS-4s (4-8-4) were not available.  And the Cab in Front wheel arrangement was, in the end, arranged as 4-8-8-2, the front bogies being under the cab, the cab being at the front(!).  They had a fair turn of speed though maximum speed was rarely attained due to the twisting tunneled terrain they were designed for.

 

I guess you are talking about the 1-4-1 R's. They were an American design supplied in large numbers to the devastated French railways at the end of the war under lend-lease. The true French Mikardos were typical compounds, culminating in the excellent Chapelon 1-4-1 P. The 2-8-2 type seems to have evolved into the role of a mixed traffic locomotive on many of Worlds railways.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Headstock

[Clearwater]

Agreed - I'm surprised. Didn't bid but at that price would have been interested. Of course, in an auction you never know how far the winner would have been prepared to go

 

David

[mullie]

Agreed - I'm surprised. Didn't bid but at that price would have been interested. Of course, in an auction you never know how far the winner would have been prepared to go

 

David

There really is no telling what things will go for. Out of curiosity I watched a J69, J67 and N7 kits already built to various degrees. They went for £171, £74 and £118 respectively.  As someone yet to build a kit the top end prices seem high considering you could be buying a whole heap of trouble as you won't know until you receive it, the J67 is also a rarer kit apparently.

 

A Crownline (PDK) J17 is currently on £60, finishing tomorrow I'm sure it will go considerably higher.

 

At the moment.I think I would prefer to buy a kit and start from the beginning rather than have to deal with someone else's work.

 

Christmas present to self will be a Poppy's jig, some broaches to compliment my existing tools and a suitable book, probably by Iain Rice so I can tackle a first chassis kit next year when the garage warms up. I will probably start with a Comet J72 as an 0-6-0 seems like a straightforward first project, it can be based on one that was shedded at Ipswich until such time as I work out how to fit the chassis under my J65 body adapted from a J72.

 

Andrew at Comet Models has already given some helpful advice and I can read the instructions before I buy anything.

 

Any other advice gratefully received, are their any good DVDs that are currently available, I believe Tony's  are no longer produced, is htat correct?

 

Martyn

[CoViAnna]

I don't know if this is allowed and if it isn't would the Mods remove it but try Youtube.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3llT2xoneI

[mullie]

I don't know if this is allowed and if it isn't would the Mods remove it but try Youtube.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3llT2xoneI

I've been in music and music education all my working life so am well aware of issues of copyright. Thanks for posting but I'm also happy to buy it if available, I'll have a look round. I've  never used a DVD before but it is so easy to watch on my macbook whilst working that it seems like a good idea.

 

Martyn

[Andy Hayter]

I guess you are talking about the 1-4-1 R's. They were an American design supplied in large numbers to the devastated French railways at the end of the war under lend-lease. The true French Mikardos were typical compounds, culminating in the excellent Chapelon 1-4-1 P. The 2-8-2 type seems to have evolved into the role of a mixed traffic locomotive on many of Worlds railways.

 

In reality I think Chapelon tweaked the PLM design (600 units) which had been developing since the first world war.  Important tweaks perhaps, but tweaks nevertheless.  In doing so he broke the PLM design concept of interchangeability.   The PLM 141s shared boilers with the 231 Pacifics, but the Chapelon design changed the boiler for the141 P and lost that factor.

[Clearwater]

On the subject of Tony's video, there's also a link to it from DJH's website.

 

 

David

[Focalplane]

Christmas present to self will be a Poppy's jig, some broaches to compliment my existing tools and a suitable book, probably by Iain Rice so I can tackle a first chassis kit next year when the garage warms up. I will probably start with a Comet J72 as an 0-6-0 seems like a straightforward first project, it can be based on one that was shedded at Ipswich until such time as I work out how to fit the chassis under my J65 body adapted from a J72.

 

Andrew at Comet Models has already given some helpful advice and I can read the instructions before I buy anything.

 

Any other advice gratefully received, are their any good DVDs that are currently available, I believe Tony's  are no longer produced, is htat correct?

 

Martyn

 

Martyn

 

I would say you are on the right track, pardon the pun.  Many of the kit designers/retailers are more than happy to share with prospective buyers the instructions for various kits so that you can see what it is you are buying into.  Although 7mm scale, the best example is Jim McGeown's Connoisseur Models site, with instructions and also guides to download.  His tool recommendations are most useful, though I see you've already got a set of broaches on your list.  Much of what he writes applies to 4mm scale.

 

Although I do my modelling in France I do have VOIP free phone calls to the UK so I have been able to have long chats with several retailers at no cost to me (though some cost to their time, of course).  From our conversations I get the feeling some are thinking of retiring to France!

 

I have never bought a kit, unopened or partially assembled, on an auction site and I probably never will.  There is something about opening a box and starting from the first page of the instructions.  From then on it's my fault if things go awry.

 

Good luck, Paul

[Focalplane]

I recently saw both volumes of Tony's videos on sale at a stall at Toddington on the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway.  They were on sale for a bargain price (I'll not say what it was but it wasn't very much).

[chris p bacon]

A2 went for £181

 

 

 

I have to say, I thought it would go for much more too.

 

 

Somebody got a very good bargain there.

I tend to watch quite a few kits and bits and that's probably about the right price, there are some on 'Buy it now' which are greatly overvalued and have been on sale for upwards of 12-18 months but if they don't sell after that time then their too expensive.

I won't bid more than approx 50% of the value of the parts for sale as you can't guarantee what you'll get if it's been started,  or if not started that all is in the box.

[Headstock]

In reality I think Chapelon tweaked the PLM design (600 units) which had been developing since the first world war.  Important tweaks perhaps, but tweaks nevertheless.  In doing so he broke the PLM design concept of interchangeability.   The PLM 141s shared boilers with the 231 Pacifics, but the Chapelon design changed the boiler for the141 P and lost that factor.

 

The 1-4-1 P's were designed for the SNCF using the general arrangement of the PLM 1-4-1 C as far as the overall dimensions of the boiler, mechanical parts, and wheel distribution. 318 new locomotives were built with a new boiler design running at 290lbs per square inch, this was done so as to reduce the size of the cylinders. This allowed the low-pressure cylinders to be placed within the frames, a reverse of the situation on the 1-4-1 C's. The reason for this was to vastly improve the steam circuit over the 1-4-1 C's 1914 boiler and cylinder design. Standardization with old designs was not the point, the 1-4-P's were built as a stop-gap design to the latest standards until the new standard locomotive type was decided upon. The new locomotives proved very economical and could cruise quite easily at speeds in the mid-seventies. When tested the locomotives produced a maximum horsepower at the drawbar of 3,330 with 55 percent cut-off at 50 mph. All of Chapelon's locomotives were tweaks of existing locomotives in one form or another.

[Mallard60022]

The 1-4-1 P's were designed for the SNCF using the general arrangement of the PLM 1-4-1 C as far as the overall dimensions of the boiler, mechanical parts, and wheel distribution. 318 new locomotives were built with a new boiler design running at 290lbs per square inch, this was done so as to reduce the size of the cylinders. This allowed the low-pressure cylinders to be placed within the frames, a reverse of the situation on the 1-4-1 C's. The reason for this was to vastly improve the steam circuit over the 1-4-1 C's 1914 boiler and cylinder design. Standardization with old designs was not the point, the 1-4-P's were built as a stop-gap design to the latest standards until the new standard locomotive type was decided upon. The new locomotives proved very economical and could cruise quite easily at speeds in the mid-seventies. When tested the locomotives produced a maximum horsepower at the drawbar of 3,330 with 55 percent cut-off at 50 mph. All of Chapelon's locomotives were tweaks of existing locomotives in one form or another.

I was unaware until recently about how much time Gresley and Bulleid spent exchanging visits with the French and then Mr Townend and Co. of course. Some of those French loco's were top rate and really beautifully designed, however back in the day I was not interested in 'foreign stuff' at all; all pipes and domes with weird wheel arrangements. It was not until I did the Wolsztyn Experience a few times that I realised what I should have been doing in the late 60s and the 70s rather than  wasting my time playing footy and being a complete ar~e! (That is, going to Europe to look at some real steam in action).

I did buy a SNCF 141 ages ago and then used the chassis for a WD (was it a Bristol Kit.....can't remember)? It is upstairs in the loft somewhere.

Phil 

[bike2steam]

I did buy a SNCF 141 ages ago and then used the chassis for a WD (was it a Bristol Kit.....can't remember)? It is upstairs in the loft somewhere.

Phil 

McGowan, methinks ???

[Mallard60022]

McGowan, methinks ???

I shall have to dig that out and let TW have a laugh. Think I Araldited that together in the mid 70s.

happy times.

Phil 

[bike2steam]

Yep, I bought a s/h kit in the mid 70's, but couldn't get hold of the ( Joeuff ??) chassis, so sold it on again about 3 or 4 years later, good job I did, what I heard about them anyway.

[coachmann]

The Southern railway management was touchy about pony trucks after the Sevenoaks derailment involving a 'River' class 2-6-4T. After the accident the locos were tested on LNER metals and showed no problems with rolling. The Southern Railway realised that to have any success in operating the K class tanks on their own network, vast stretches of track would require upgrading. The 2-6-4T's were 'rebuilt' into 2-6-0's instead. It is unlikely a Bullied high speed 2-8-2 would have stood a chance of being passed for construction, but that said, the man got permission to build his so-called mixed traffic Pacifics in wartime...... There is no record of them working any meaningful wartime freight, but politicians can work wonders!

Edited November 27, 2016 by coachmann

[Class O]

I was unaware until recently about how much time Gresley and Bulleid spent exchanging visits with the French and then Mr Townend and Co. of course. Some of those French loco's were top rate and really beautifully designed, however back in the day I was not interested in 'foreign stuff' at all; all pipes and domes with weird wheel arrangements. It was not until I did the Wolsztyn Experience a few times that I realised what I should have been doing in the late 60s and the 70s rather than  wasting my time playing footy and being a complete ar~e! (That is, going to Europe to look at some real steam in action).

I did buy a SNCF 141 ages ago and then used the chassis for a WD (was it a Bristol Kit.....can't remember)? It is upstairs in the loft somewhere.

Phil 

I had a Cornard kit that used a 1.4.1R chassis, it was rubbish  scrapped it but 1.4 .1 Rs, got 2 cheap from Guy Norris

[jrg1]

It is difficult to see what application a class of Bulleid 2-8-2s would have had on the Southern, when the less powerful Pacifics were perfectly adequate, and in fact over represented.  As Coachman reminded us, the permanent way was in need of upgrading, and as a commercial proposition for the region's traffic, what was the point?  

[great central]

I shall have to dig that out and let TW have a laugh. Think I Araldited that together in the mid 70s.

happy times.

Phil 

 

Mine is the first model in this thread:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107801-warts-nall/

 

As I said at the time I sent it for a spin round Deepcar and it worked well, given that it quite likely hadn't seen the light of day since we moved here 30 years ago

[46256]

I have just viewed both Grantham and Copenhagen Fields at Warley....magnificent...other fine models as well.....highlights....the train engine running light following out its previous pulled set of coaches now going out the other way with another engine at Grantham, the original loco then running onto the shed.

On Copenhagen a double headed ivatt and Stirling single combo......then to remind me of my true allegiance Hornby and a brand new Duchess...46256 and 46235.... The problem I already have them on my fleet together with other examples. Hornby though have really surpassed themselves if the model on display is the result!

[gr.king]

gr.king, on 25 Nov 2016 - 09:03, said:gr.king, on 25 Nov 2016 - 09:03, said:

Tom: If you're J3 ...

 

I confess to crimes against the English Language, brought about by negligence and haste. I throw myself upon the mercy of the Grammar Court.

 

 

I'm sure I've seen that conjectural drawing of the Bulleid Mikado somewhere before........

Edited November 27, 2016 by gr.king