Dapol Streamlined Railcar

[gwrrob]

Something different....

 

 

[Neal Ball]

No wonder everyone on the platform is staring!

[bgman]

Something different....

 

 

SR Railcar.jpg

Aaaaarrrrrggggghhhh! Nooooo!!!!

 

Naughty step for you . Take ya tablets Rob

[BlackRat]

Flying cucumber?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Picked up my replacement today from RM and gave it about three hours circling using a Gaugemaster D controller. Considerably better runner than the original one. Not quite perfect but when I get the top off to switch off the lights I don't want I will check out the gears, pickups, etc. on the motor bogie. When I had it on the rollers with just the motor bogie end powered it did seem a bit sluggish, so I am wondering if the resistance through the pickups is varying the power to the motor as it runs.

The back to backs on the trailing bogie were a fraction tight but not enough to cause a problem on the track and they turned freely. 

 

One thing I did notice was that there was a distinct flicker on the cab light at 30% power on the controller. There was no sign of it under about 20% and it had gone before 40%.

Any ideas what the reason could be?

Does that lead us to an answer or just pose another question?

[railcar1]

Picked up my replacement today from RM and gave it about three hours circling using a Gaugemaster D controller. Considerably better runner than the original one. Not quite perfect but when I get the top off to switch off the lights I don't want I will check out the gears, pickups, etc. on the motor bogie. When I had it on the rollers with just the motor bogie end powered it did seem a bit sluggish, so I am wondering if the resistance through the pickups is varying the power to the motor as it runs.

The back to backs on the trailing bogie were a fraction tight but not enough to cause a problem on the track and they turned freely.

 

One thing I did notice was that there was a distinct flicker on the cab light at 30% power on the controller. There was no sign of it under about 20% and it had gone before 40%.

Any ideas what the reason could be?

Does that lead us to an answer or just pose another question?

[railcar1]

I have the flickering light as well.This is probably due to the varying load on the motor due to the issues within the geartrain (whatever they are).I have a tight spot in my example which is obvious at very low speed.As I have previously said I have fitted dummy wiper pickups to the drive bogie to smooth out any inconsistencies and this has greatly improved the performance.

As to your poor performance on the rollers I don't think bearing pickups are basically a good idea for obvious reasons.

[kandc_au]

With all the complaints I have seen here I was REALLY worried about what I was going to get.

My railcar arrived this AM and runs like a dream!

No issues with headlights nor buffering. Takes b*gger all power to start and purrs along.

One question for the aficionados....Did they run with the headlight on during the day in the 30's and 40's.?
I thought that headlights on during the day was a rather recent  initiative in our very neurotic society!

 

Khris

[Andy W]

They aren't technically headlights in the sense we use the word today, just marker lights replicating the function of the oil lamps used on steam locos to indicate the class of train being worked. As such, they would need to be on during the daytime so signalmen and platform staff could distinguish between express, stopping passenger, and empty stock movements, since there's no physical object like the oil lamp body or the Southern's marker discs for them to look at instead. That said, given the small number of railcars, it would be amazing if everyone didn't already know which train was which, and they were anything but brightly lit

Edited November 20, 2017 by Andy W

[SRman]

Something different....

 

 

SR Railcar.jpg

 

With a name like GWRrob, you should be thoroughly ashamed for posting this!     

 

p.s. I love it, and the 'Flying Cucumber' name from BlackRat.  

[Ian Hargrave]

They aren't technically headlights in the sense we use the word today, just marker lights replicating the function of the oil lamps used on steam locos to indicate the class of train being worked. As such, they would need to be on during the daytime so signalmen and platform staff could distinguish between express, stopping passenger, and empty stock movements, since there's no physical object like the oil lamp body or the Southern's marker discs for them to look at instead. That said, given the small number of railcars, it would be amazing if everyone didn't already know which train was which, and they were anything but brightly lit

And nothing like today's l e d or quartz halogen either but a dim conventional bulb with filament.Dapol's rendering though nice to have would probably be prototypically too bright.

 

Incidentally,mine runs exactly as described in post 658,

[dibber25]

And nothing like today's l e d or quartz halogen either but a dim conventional bulb with filament.Dapol's rendering though nice to have would probably be prototypically too bright.

 

Incidentally,mine runs exactly as described in post 658,

 

....and so does mine. Just as well, as I'm reviewing it for the next issue of Model Rail. (CJL)

[The Stationmaster]

With all the complaints I have seen here I was REALLY worried about what I was going to get.

My railcar arrived this AM and runs like a dream!

No issues with headlights nor buffering. Takes b*gger all power to start and purrs along.

One question for the aficionados....Did they run with the headlight on during the day in the 30's and 40's.?

I thought that headlights on during the day was a rather recent  initiative in our very neurotic society!

 

Khris

 

 

They aren't technically headlights in the sense we use the word today, just marker lights replicating the function of the oil lamps used on steam locos to indicate the class of train being worked. As such, they would need to be on during the daytime so signalmen and platform staff could distinguish between express, stopping passenger, and empty stock movements, since there's no physical object like the oil lamp body or the Southern's marker discs for them to look at instead. That said, given the small number of railcars, it would be amazing if everyone didn't already know which train was which, and they were anything but brightly lit

Now for the correct answer (sorry, but probably best to get it right for those who are interested).

 

The head lights were only required to be illuminated when passing through certain tunnels listed in the Sectional Appendix (which in reality meant most tunnels), during the hours of darkness, and during fog and falling snow.  The headlights could only show the Class A (later Class 1) and Class B (later Class 2) codes - they could not show the empty stock code (same lamp position as either GWR Class D, or later BR Class C/Class 3).   Therefore, and exactly as Khris supposed, the headlights on these cars were not normally illuminated during daylight - unless they would be passing through a tunnel etc.  The headlight bulbs were ordinary filament bulbs so not much brighter, if any, than a properly trimmed and adjusted oil head  lamp.

 

Originally the electric tail light was only required to be illuminated under the same conditions as the head lights were required to be illuminated but from March 1937 use of the electric tail light was prohibited and the cars had to carry a conventional oil tail lamp (alight when such lamps were normally required to be alight, i.e. as listed above for the electric lights)

 

Apart from changes to the names of the various classes of train, and the use of an oil tail lamp from March 1937 onwards, the above Instructions were otherwise unaltered during the entire operational life of the GWR railcars.

[gwrrob]

 

With a name like GWRrob, you should be thoroughly ashamed for posting this!     

 

p.s. I love it, and the 'Flying Cucumber' name from BlackRat.  

 

Absolutely but sometimes you need to have a sense of humour in this hobby of ours.  

[TheSignalEngineer]

....and so does mine. Just as well, as I'm reviewing it for the next issue of Model Rail. (CJL)

Lucky you.

 

After plenty of running the slightly jerky nature of my replacement W14W is still apparent in one direction. Looks OK with the Guard's end leading. That way round it runs perfectly right down to a crawl, but the other way the wheels go round almost a full turn then it nearly stops before bursting off for another turn. Above a scale speed of about 20 MPH it runs OK.

 

One strange thing when I turned off the interior, cab and express lights the remaining Class B lights were rock-steady at all speeds. 

 

While I had the top off I started to check out the mechanics. The motor runs freely in both directions and seems quite smooth. There is a fair bit of end to end tolerance in the armature but that doesn't seem to affect the transmission. The drive shaft and joints appear OK.

 

Back-to-backs were fractionally tight but I could already tell that from a set of points in the fiddle yard, they usually act as my tell-tale for anything which isn't quite right in the running. All wheels were cleaned and the contact springs check, all OK and picking up perfectly now.

 

I took the keeper plate off the drive bogie to check lubrication, yes there was some but not a lot. 

 

There seems a lot of play in that string of cogs, and a distinctly clicky one at the inner end next to the centre. It looks as if there is a problem with sloppy manufacturing and too much play causing a meshing problem. As the speed goes up the flywheel probably overcomes it.

 

Next job will be to clean and check out the gears.

 

As the service I intend to run it on doesn't terminate at my station and I am going to fit the tail light, as long as it runs well in one direction that will be OK as I can turn it in the fiddle yard but it is not really something we should have to put up with given the price of models these days.  . 

[Harlequin]

Cautionary tale: I installed a Zimo decoder and speaker from YouChoos into my railcar last week. This was a rather fiddly process and afterwards the model was dead!

 

I didn't panic but I did buy an Omnivisor at Warley this weekend so I could see what I was doing a bit better and with that I found the problem fairly quickly: I had plugged the decoder one pin too far to the left on the carrier board. (It's a shame that the plug/socket allow this mistake to be made at all...)

 

I have now plugged it in correctly and luckily, nothing has been damaged and sound, lights and drive all work fine. I can hear it idling on my track right now. (Phew!)

Edited November 27, 2017 by Harlequin

[melmerby]

 

 

  The headlight bulbs were ordinary filament bulbs so not much brighter, if any, than a properly trimmed and adjusted oil head  lamp.

As a fair bit of the Railcar was based on contemporary bus practice I guess they were possibly 24v, maybe with a power of about 36W? hardly bright compared to modern lamps.

It's noticable that even some later steam engines (e.g. some late LNER locos) and early diesels the electric lights appear to be nothing more than marker lights. No attempt was made to "light the way ahead"

 

Keith

[Dunsignalling]

As a fair bit of the Railcar was based on contemporary bus practice I guess they were possibly 24v, maybe with a power of about 36W? hardly bright compared to modern lamps.

It's noticable that even some later steam engines (e.g. some late LNER locos) and early diesels the electric lights appear to be nothing more than marker lights. No attempt was made to "light the way ahead"

 

Keith

In many ways, the ability to light the way ahead provides limited benefits even today.

 

Unless a train is travelling very slowly, it won't be possible for it to stop before hitting whatever obstructions modern powerful headlamps can pick out, be they animal, vegetable or mineral.

 

The only tangible advantages are better warning for lineside workers or foot-crossing users and some increase in safety for the driver who nowadays at least gets the chance to "brace him/herself" for any impact or perhaps vacate the cab after throwing the brake in. 

 

John

Edited November 28, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[melmerby]

In many ways, the ability to light the way ahead provides limited benefits even today.

 

Unless a train is travelling very slowly, it won't be possible for it to stop before hitting whatever obstructions modern powerful headlamps can pick out, be they animal, vegetable or mineral.

 

The only tangible advantages are better warning for lineside workers or foot-crossing users and some increase in safety for the driver who nowadays at least gets the chance to "brace him/herself" for any impact or perhaps vacate the cab after throwing the brake in. 

 

John

I assumed it wasn't specifically so the driver could see ahead but more for the benefit of those on the outside where, especially at night, a bright light is a very obvious warning of approach. Much better than an audible warning.

Overseas railways adopted this idea years before the UK

I remember (in Spain I think) seeing a bright light on a train threading it's way through the countryside at night and it occured to me how obvious it was compared to UK trains. This would have been the early 1960s.

 

Keith

[The Johnster]

I can remember in the 70s when much discussion was taking place on the subject of brighter lights on locomotives to address an issue which was becoming increasingly obvious, which was that the decrease in trackside fatalities and injuries resulting from the introduction of yellow ends on locomotives and multiple units had not been matched by a similar percentage drop of trackside casualties specifically at night or in poor visibility.  The thrust of the argument was that a brighter light or a distinctive pattern of lights, perhaps flashing or pulsating, would solve the problem.  The American 'Mars Light' was considered to have been very successful.  This was at a time when the marker lights were low powered filament bulbs whose brightness was further diminished by the frosted glass they were mounted behind, or the dim bulbs that illuminated headcode panels, then being phased out and replaced by '2 dots' displays or plated in headcode boxes with a pair of lights only slightly brighter.

 

The traditional attitude still held that a train proceeding under a clear aspect on track protected by fencing is able to maintain track speed in safety and does not need to illuminate the road ahead of it.  Headlights were provided where track is unfenced, such as in parts of Scotland and the Central Wales line, in the latter case Lucas 12 volt dc 65watt car rallying floodlights fitted to 2-car Swindon Cross Country dmus and class 3s that worked over the line.  This meant that some shunting duties in remote unlit sidings at night were more interesting than they should have been...

 

This is the origin of high powered headlights on modern stock, but calling them headlights has over the years somewhat distorted their original purpose a bit.  Really, they are still marker lights to warn those who need to know of the approach and postion of a train, as were the paraffin lamps of steam locos that were in their turn outmoded by the low wattage marker lights of diesel or electric traction which were of about the same brightness.  

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Johnster

[The Stationmaster]

The reason for the use of fixed beam headlights (as they were referred to in the relevant Instructions) on the Central Wales Line was solely in connection with various open level crossing on the route and the headlights were only required to be illuminated, at any time of day or night, when approaching and passing over various listed open level crossings and 5 nominated accommodation crossings.  If the headlight was defective trains were required to stop short of the level crossings and then proceed over them vcautiously.

 

In other words the fixed beam headlights used on the Central Wales Line were provided solely to avoid trains having to stop before passing over the open level crossings - and for no other immediate reason.

[The Johnster]

In about '74 I worked one of the 2-car Swindon CC sets back from Bristol and my driver, who said he'd never seen the inside of the Severn Tunnel properly, switched the headlight on as we went though.  Illuminating, literally, and a bit scary when you could actually see the amount of water cascading from everywhere!  When we rounded the left hand curve on the Welsh side, a train could be seen on the up, and he extinguished the light immediately.

[Roy Langridge]

Tonight I had the pleasure of a visit to the cab of a Chiltern Class 68. The driver showed me the high-power headlight setting that they don’t normally use. It was like a floodlight.

 

Whilst it would never be used in nprmal operation, with oncoming trains, he said it was very useful if they have been asked to inspect the line.

 

Roy

[melmerby]

After running my No.12 a couple of weeks ago I hadn't touched it and left where it had stopped on the track.

Tonight I turned on my DCC system again - zilch, not even any lights.

Puzzled I put No.12 on my programming track and and checked it with my Sprog. Everything looked normal, even to the juddering down the track when reading CVs

But setting a throttle would not get it to move.

 

Changed the chip for another in case something had blown. Exactly the same, except the lights were on, but not controllable.

Tried the first chip in another loco and it works fine.

 

I think I'll try it next with the DCC blanking plug & on DC again just to see what it's about.

 

Any suggestions?

I think sending it back might be an option especially considering it's poor running quality before.

 

Keith

[micklner]

Good thread here, including using a replacement Mashima motor.

 

https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5617