RMweb Gold big jim Posted May 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2013 Just picked up a fujifilm finepix S4400 bridge camera but really am clueless about non point and shoot photography, im going to take it with me t work tonight to see if i can get some night shots of the 56 while im fuelling it So real basic stuff, the camera has auto mode but is fully manual too so to take night pics what do i need to do, long shutter time, more or less exposure etc, i really am clueless about it so dont bamboozle me with technology!! Again another basic question, what does the ISO number refer to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted May 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2013 Hi Jim, iso is basically the sensitivity to light, the higher the number, the more light the camera captures BUT the trade off is the higher the number the noisier the image (this can range from looking mottled to having spots and all things in between) - this depends on the camera. 400 is a good start point. Make sure the flash is disabled. Go for manual exposure and try it, if it's too dark you need a longer shutter speed, too light and you need a slower one - digital cameras are quite good in low light anyway, the worst that can happen is a rubbish photo ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted May 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2013 i'll give it a try later on, noticed that when i was playing with the camera in a dark room it came up as iso400, i've got an hour while the 56 fills to have a play anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted May 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2013 i'll give it a try later on, noticed that when i was playing with the camera in a dark room it came up as iso400, i've got an hour while the 56 fills to have a play anyway! My lad got one of your 56s down at Stratford today along with an 86 ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted May 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2013 posted these in my colas thread too, first attempt at night time shots using my new finepix S4400, forgot my tripod so they were taken with the timer and camera placed on a wall, any opinions greatly received quick one in crewe, vey yellow from the lighting and blurry as i was leaning against something, how can a shot like that be improved when i get a tripod, i.e. lighten up the sky and darken the yellow? iso800 1/10 f3.1 (whatever that means!) similarly this one in chirk, how can i improve it setting wise? iso800 1/8 f3.1 then i had time to play about a bit iso100 3.1" f4.0 (there is also a symbol on the camera that says (+/- 1/3)) again no tripod so a bit blurry but this side of the loco is in the pitch black so i'm pleased with this, will get a better shot with a tripod soon iso100 8" f4.0 i then worked out how to change the iso setting, this one is set to 800 but its lost the green trees behind and appears granier iso800 1/2.3 f5.2 (+/-1) and this one is set to 400 iso400 1.5" f6.4 (+/- -2/3) so what do we think, can someone tell me what significance the differing numbers in the exposure are and what may be the optimum settings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted May 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2013 Jim Hope I have understood your question correctly aand am not teaching you to suck eggs. The ISO is the old film rating - the higher the number the faster the film reacted to the light hence ISO1000 or 1600 was often used for night time shots but it was more grainy - the equivalent in digital is 'noise' as per Beasts post earlier. Many modern digital cameras go higher than this. The next number is the shutter speed - you need this as fast as possible if handheld or taking moving subjects, at least 1/60th second for slow moving subjects I would say but if the camera has built in optical image stabilisation then you can get down pretty low for stationary shots which you have done. The f is the aperture size - ideally needs to be a higher number for sharpness and depth of filed but in low light shots this will often be lower. I think iI know what the bracketed numbers are but will leave others who may know for sure. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2013 With f numbers the higher number (e.g f16 instead of f5.6) gives better sharpness and greater depth of field (basically the higher the number the smaller the aperture opening). I'm not sure how ISO and 'shutter speed' work on all digital cameras but on some older models they were a direct trade-off against each other in the electronics and thus don't work exactly as they would using films of different speeds in a traditional camera. That doesn't seem to be the case on more modern cameras although obviously the relationship between the two still applies. I presume the bracketed numbers might refer to variable exposure settings although on my Pentax if I set it to do that it gives me three images for each depression of the shutter button - one underexposed by the set variation plus one overexposed by that set variation and one at the decision the camera has made or I have made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted May 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2013 With f numbers the higher number (e.g f16 instead of f5.6) gives better sharpness and greater depth of field (basically the higher the number the smaller the aperture opening). I'm not sure how ISO and 'shutter speed' work on all digital cameras but on some older models they were a direct trade-off against each other in the electronics and thus don't work exactly as they would using films of different speeds in a traditional camera. That doesn't seem to be the case on more modern cameras although obviously the relationship between the two still applies. I presume the bracketed numbers might refer to variable exposure settings although on my Pentax if I set it to do that it gives me three images for each depression of the shutter button - one underexposed by the set variation plus one overexposed by that set variation and one at the decision the camera has made or I have made. Mike Made a typo there re aperture so changed my post - sorry for the confusion Jim. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 The f number ("aperture" or "stop") is the ratio of the focal length of the lens to the diameter of the opening which admits light. At smaller apertures (larger f numbers), the amount of light is reduced by closing the blades within the lens, which has the effect of increasing sharpness and depth of field (the extent of sharpness in front and behind the plane of focus). The standard full stop settings are 1, 1.4, 2, 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8, 11, 16, 22, 32, 45 etc., each successive value admitting half the light to the preceding one. Thus if you have a 28mm lens and an aperture of f5.6, that tells you that the lens is collecting light via a circle of 5mm diameter. The ISO value corresponds to a measure adopted as the standard for measuring the sensitivity of films (originally set by the American Standards Association, hence termed the ASA value before its adoption by the International Standards Organisation). A rule of thumb, rather than a definition, identifies that for a photo of an outdoor subject on a sunny day, the shutter speed nearest to the ISO setting of the film, at an aperture of f16, should result in a correctly exposed image. For example, shooting at ISO 125, an exposure of 1/125th at f16 would be correct under those conditions. The ISO scale is defined in 1/3 increments, such that typical values are 25, 32, 50, 64, 80, 100, 125, 160, 200 etc. (you might recognise these numbers from film types) and a film rated at 100 ASA has twice the sensitivity of one rated at 50 ASA. The shutter speed is how long the shutter stays open during exposure. Most commonly, shutters consist of a slit formed by two blinds moving across the frame (film or sensor). Obviouly a shutter speed of 1/125th second admits twice as much light as 1/250th of a second. The standard settings are arranged in a geometric sequence, rounded for ease of understanding: 2", 1", 1/2", 1/4", 1/8", 1/15", 1/30", 1/60", 1/125", 1/250", 1/500", etc. Particularly with digital cameras, the nice incremental steps of ISO, shutter speed and f stop have been replaced by almost continuous gradations. Hence the camera may tell you that you are shooting on at 1/180th at f6.1. In digital cameras, the native sensitivity of the sensor usually corresponds to ISO 100. In order to increase sensitivity (e.g. ISO 400), the signal needs to be boosted electronically. The higher the ISO setting, the greater the amount of boosting required and the greater the amount of "noise". There are no hard and fast rules about what is acceptable and some sensors are better than others at dealing with noise. The "+/-" settings are an indication of under- or overexposure. Under-exposure (minus) is making the image uniformly darker (less light) and over-exposure (plus) is making it lighter. Your camera's meter will evaluate the subject to a mid-grey tone (in fact Kodak used to make cards of the precise 18% grey tone to assist measurement of exposure). However, get close to a big, black steam loco and the camera will try to expose it as a big, mid-grey steam loco. To keep it black, you may need to deliberately under-expose the picture by dialling in a compensation of (maybe) 2/3 stop (i.e. -2/3). (In film days, you could override the ISO setting for the film to achieve the same end, but digital cameras aren't fooled so easily - hence the need for compensation). Expsure compensation also comes in handy in night shots. This is because of something called reciprocity failure, where the sensitivity of a film or sensor starts to vary from the nice, neat pattern of measured exposure value (ISO, shutter speed and f stop) and its ability to turn into a correctly exposed image. Again, no hard and fast rules as things differ between films and between sensors), but you may find by practice that you need to add in a certain amount of exposure compensation in low light. With digital cameras, you can inspect the results and adjust accordingly, with film the best solution is often to "bracket" exposures (taking the same shot both at the indicated and adjusted settings) to be sure of getting an optimal result. As Ian describes, some cameras (film and digital) have the facility to take bracketed photos automatically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted May 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2013 A superbly written post conveying the fundamentals of a quite technical subject in an easily understandable way Couldn't have said it better myself! I used film cameras exclusively until a few years ago ranging from the all-manual Halina Paulette to the largely self-setting Minolta Dynax range which came with plenty of over-ride and other handy features such as bracketing. I used a light meter at times but at night even this was of no use and I simply set up the camera on the tripod and on "B" (time exposure) with the release cable or infra-red remote (according to camera) used to release the shutter. Limitations of camera quality and experience meant I often didn't get a good result but one or two have ben worth keeping over the years and one even provided my first competition winner. Modern image stabilisation and digital image management makes the capture of night shots with good depth of pin-sharp field a reality which it seldom was with film. Even the cheaper compact cameras will often have some sort of night-time setting if only to govern use of the flash. Anything better than the bottom-end kit will allow you to disable the flash as well and capture images using only the lighting available - provided there is enough to activate the electronics! An attempt at capturing the faint glow of a Bachmann 4-character headcode panel approaching through various shades of gloom and shadow on the layout was unsuccessful here as the light failed to register at all on the camera. Had I still got a film SLR in working order I could have at least set it up to take something like a 5 minute exposure and see if anything came out on the slide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Make sure the flash is disabled. Go for manual exposure and try it, if it's too dark you need a longer shutter speed, too light and you need a slower one - digital cameras are quite good in low light anyway, the worst that can happen is a rubbish photo ! Good advice, and on-camera flash is seldom of use for railway-related subjects. However there are times when flash becomes a necessity, though quite different techniques may be required. A little experimentation can pay dividends. It's probably obvious, but flash shouldn't be used to photograph on an operating railway, or at least not without permission. Static subjects are a different proposition and have the advantage that experiments can be made to get things right. The attached photo was taken in Malbork, Poland in November 2002 and is an example of the multiple open flash technique. The camera is mounted on a tripod, set for manual exposure and the shutter released on the self-timer. While the shutter is open, the subject is lit from different angles by repeated bursts from a hand-held flashgun. Although there are flood lights behind the locomotive (responsible for the greenish cast of the background), the locomotive itself was unlit - the railway equivalent of the proverbial black cat in a coal cellar. It was so dark that framing the subject proved difficult. I no longer have a record of the actual exposure used (it doesn't really matter, but I guess it was something like 30 seconds at f5.6). The exposure was adequate to pick up some light for the background. During the exposure, I fired off four of five bursts from a hand-held Vivitar 283 flashgun (fitted with a wide angle filter attachment to give a greater light spread), sometimes walking across the line of view (but not staying long enough in one place to appear in the shot). 35mm lens on a Canon T90, Provia 100F film. On this occasion, matters were complicated by what appeared to be a transient community temporarily accommodated in railway vans nearby, which meant it wasn't advisable to linger with expensive camera gear after having fired off several bursts of flash - a case of needing to get it right at the first attempt. However, there does tend to be more exposure latitude than at first might be thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Camera set to B and rested on signal post and time just guest, just lucky. 20136 / 20077 lighting courtesy Fiddlers Ferry power station, 26 February 1988. Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastair-I Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Galatea, taking on coal and water after her test run to King's Lynn back in May this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Horn Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 A few shots from last night at Wymondham, 0Z41 heading to Dereham from the National Railway Museum moving onto the branch and a couple of arty type shots whilst waiting . . Cheers Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoilerBasher Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 S160 at NYMR taken with a Nikon FE2 and 55mm F3.5 on Kodak Ektar 100 film hand held on bulb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 A night shot at Warrington B.Q 37676,37686 (Penmaenmawr to Hope Street) Peakstone 6 November 1987 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CathcartCircle Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Croftfoot Railway Station, Glasgow, July '13. Almost the end of a days track renewal! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Tangmere, a couple of weeks back: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 That really hits the spot Matt, very nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 That really hits the spot Matt, very nice. Cheers Nidge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted November 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2015 60047 and 67028 Toton Depot by jim scott, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted March 12, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2016 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal.n Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 A very cold night after waiting for an hour late 45407 and 44871 with the 'Tin Bath' at Preston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Down in the docks at Southampton Maritime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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