Hornby's 2013 Announcements

[Ron Ron Ron]

So am I right in think Hornby Railroad is to be known as Triang? 

 

No !

[69843]

*looks at P2*

 

Why, remind me, did I have to start building a model of the A1SLT P2 #2007 this month?

 

I'll be purchasing a Hornby P2 now, and seeing how it compares to my scratchbuilt one once complete. DoG and a Hall also on the order list now.

[coachmann]

Following on from Ron's post RE: a pre-production shot of the DoG (pg25)...

 

Here is a picture of the pre-production P2, but unfortunately it appears to have moulded handrails .

 

IMG_7541LR.JPG

'Design Clever' is all things to all people......

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Someone hasn't been looking at their BR Corporate Identity Manual to get the correct proportions of the BR logo.....

[newbryford]

'Design Clever' is all things to all people......

WEB DesignClever.jpg

 

Oh great - another reason for the steam modellers to say that diesels and electrics are featureless..........

 

Cheers,

Mick

[griffgriff]

'Design Clever' is all things to all people......

WEB DesignClever.jpg

That's a BR prototype???.... I thought it looked more like a Northern Ireland Railways locomotive... as modelled by MTK

[The Stationmaster]

Perhaps someone can confirm but both 'Model Rail' (seen today) and Hornby's website seem to indicate that the BR version of the GW Shunters' Truck will be grey and not black (and with white lettering instead of yellow).

[flapland]

'Design Clever' is all things to all people......

WEB DesignClever.jpg

Someone modelled the new Class 68 in retro livery, very nice. Expect it will go on Ebay for at least £160 plus £13.99 extra special postage costs.

[Charlie]

I thought it was Hornby's version of the class 28...

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I thought it was Hornby's version of the class 28...

 No, it's Bulleid's Leader.

 

I wondered what it'd be like in Large Logo Blue

[steve45]

http://www.ehattons.com/images/products/200pxwide/R8147_1501228_Qty1_cat.jpg

 

This is the image on Hattons website of the front page of Hornby catalogue I think. I don't think the handrails on the deflectors are good enough, they are very '70's in appearance. I really hope Hornby review how far to take this value engineering. As the saying goes 'be careful what you wish for'  - I think that those who have been calling for cheaper models may regret what they asked for.

 

Happy Christmas

 

Steve

[TRAILRAGE]

HAPPY CHRISTMAS ALL

[Ozexpatriate]

I spent my long holiday weekend disconnected and was entertained by how much this thread had (d)evolved over the holiday into the new 'third rail topics' of trainsets and 'design clever'.

 

This comment, and the out of context responses to it that followed:

Even a four year old child would be aware that a 1950s passenger train is not compatable with a modern goods train.

inevitably reminded me of Rufus T. Firefly (Groucho Marx, Duck Soup, 1933)

"Clear? Huh! Why a four-year-old child could understand this report.

Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail out of it.

And now, members of the cabinet, we'll take up old business."

(I would have incldued a clip, but YouTube seems to be on a purge lately, and I couldn't find one that didn't subject viewers to forced advertising.)

[Colin parks]

I spent my long holiday weekend disconnected and was entertained by how much this thread had (d)evolved over the holiday into the new 'third rail topics' of trainsets and 'design clever'.

 

This comment, and the out of context responses to it that followed:inevitably reminded me of Rufus T. Firefly (Groucho Marx, Duck Soup, 1933)(I would have incldued a clip, but YouTube seems to be on a purge lately, and I couldn't find one that didn't subject viewers to forced advertising.)

Hi Ozexpatriate,

 

Perhaps you miss the point that amongst the general seasonal levity was the view that the Hornby's 'design clever' ethos may have an impact way beyond that on the clutch of new releases discussed here. 

 

As for (the new) "third rail topics",  I'm not ashamed of being part of that!

 

Colin

 

 

Colin

[Ozexpatriate]

Perhaps you miss the point that amongst the general seasonal levity was the view that the Hornby's 'design clever' ethos may have an impact way beyond that on the clutch of new releases discussed here. 

Colin,

 

not at all sir - 'design clever' raises a lot of very good questions. I do think there are a couple of things we need to consider before we get too spun up and extrapolate without sufficient data.

• Andy Y's sensible suggestion to withhold judgment until we see the results - the 2BIL should be a good example.
• In the meantime, look to foster a more open dialogue with Hornby in the pre-release phase* - either leading to the possibility to influence decisions, or at a minimum, make an informed purchasing choice where pre-orders are required.
• Remind ourselves that in the interest of robustness, sometimes 'better' design doesn't mean more components**

* Simon Kohler seems to be willing to engage in a dialog. Personally I'd like to see a lot more timely pre-release photographs and even CAD - but we'll have to see.

 

** I am an unapolgetic box shaker, but it's disappointing when the boxes rattle.  I really do appreciate the fine detail of modern models, but when bits frequently fall off during transit, and I have experienced this with both Hornby and Bachmann Branch Line products, perhaps things have gone too far?

[Colin parks]

Colin,

 

not at all sir - 'design clever' raises a lot of very good questions. I do think there are a couple of things we need to consider before we get too spun up and extrapolate without sufficient data.

• Andy Y's sensible suggestion to withhold judgment until we see the results - the 2BIL should be a good example.
• In the meantime, look to foster a more open dialogue with Hornby in the pre-release phase* - either leading to the possibility to influence decisions, or at a minimum, make an informed purchasing choice where pre-orders are required.
• Remind ourselves that in the interest of robustness, sometimes 'better' design doesn't mean more components**

* Simon Kohler seems to be willing to engage in a dialog. Personally I'd like to see a lot more timely pre-release photographs and even CAD - but we'll have to see.

 

** I am an unapolgetic box shaker, but it's disappointing when the boxes rattle.  I really do appreciate the fine detail of modern models, but when bits frequently fall off during transit, and I have experienced this with both Hornby and Bachmann Branch Line products, perhaps things have gone too far?

Hi Oz,

 

I take your points.  I have just read some of your comments on the 'Interview with Simon Kohler' topic, so it seems we basically think along the same lines on some matters. 

 

However,  is it getting too 'spun up' to base comments on the very images released by Hornby relating to models such as the 2 BIL - or do you not consider them not to be a primary source of reference from which to extrapolate?! 

 

As for "fostering a more open dialogue with Hornby in the 'pre-release phase' " - in the case of the model I am most interested in, it appears to be too late. 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Ozexpatriate]

However,  is it getting too 'spun up' to base comments on the very images released by Hornby relating to models such as the 2 BIL - or do you not consider them not to be a primary source of reference from which to extrapolate?! 

We clearly have pretty good photographs of the 2BIL - good enough to make informed purchasing decisions. Unfortunately despite the lengths Andy went to in introducing the 'design clever' topic in the first post of this thread, most of the discussion on the topic is purely speculative - like the notion of moulded boiler handrails, which exist on Tornado but not most Railroad models. Better communication from Hornby is the answer here.

As for "fostering a more open dialogue with Hornby in the 'pre-release phase' " - in the case of the model I am most interested in, it appears to be too late.

Agreed.

[James]

Better communication from Hornby is the answer here.

 

I'm not sure - maybe the slick marketing has failed and they've said too much about 'design clever' without actually saying what it is or what it'll actually entail?

[The Stationmaster]

I'm not sure - maybe the slick marketing has failed and they've said too much about 'design clever' without actually saying what it is or what it'll actually entail?

 

I don't think it's all about 'slick marketing' James but very much a buzz- phrase for the shareholders as well as being a way of tackling some aspects of their supply (and probably quality too) issues.  We (i.e. RMweb) have grabbed it having seen it a couple of times and interpreted it to mean various things ranging from 'they're going back to calling themselves Triang' to 'we don't want 1970s handrails' to 'dumbing down' and so on when thus far we've nowt to go on but some photos (of the 2 BIL) a couple of CAD comparison shots and an early(?)  EP of 71000 and various folk have lumped all bad points - or what they perceive as bad points - in those illustrations as being down to 'design clever'.

 

We can't really pass judgement until we get the stuff in our hands or see it and examine it in our favourite model shop.  We might have impressions, we might have miss conceptions, and I suspect some of its purpose is being misunderstood notwithstanding Andy's efforts to clarify the wider implication of the term and its effect on production.  But in reality we have to wait and see although my concern remains one of market shift if people aren't prepared to pay a bit more for the models which are meant to offer a bit more - that in my view is its most serious potential implication.  But again only time will tell.

[ThaneofFife]

 

We can't really pass judgement until we get the stuff in our hands or see it and examine it in our favourite model shop.

 

 

.....and maybe that really should be the final word on DC as the endless futile hypothesising is getting a bit tiresome now. 

[Dunsignalling]

[

We can't really pass judgement until we get the stuff in our hands or see it and examine it in our favourite model shop.

 

Of course, until we have some concrete indication of what effect it actually has on the finished product; the $64,000 question will be: To pre-order, or not to pre-order?

 

[edcayton]

It would be interesting to hear from Hornby (perhaps from Mr Kohler) whether they would rather have the whingeing at this stage, or after the models are released as a reason for not buying them.

 

Ed

[S.A.C Martin]

I just find it incredible that RMwebbers and other modellers have been given another opportunity to have a positive effect on a company and its products through careful and considered constructive criticism (as they did with Dapols Western) and so many of the familiar names and faces are shying away from saying anything critical at all except...wait and see?

 

I wonder if that's really the best tactic? Of course you will always get those for whom any and all criticism should be binned: but through a debate such as this you can get a better feel and understanding of what is actually wanted against that Hornby is offering.

 

Simon Kohler asked for views: he's no doubt keeping an eye on this thread too. If the criticism isn't unsubstantiated and isn't personal, then it can only help surely?

 

This a very rare opportunity we've been presented with here. The ability to voice our views and affect the outcome of some future products - Hornby no less.

 

I'm not saying "whine away" I am saying put your cards on the table. What is or what isn't acceptable to you for Railroad or main range models. Ask why certain parts have to be moulded, or if they can be simply included for the purchaser to fit.

 

Saying nothing if you have concerns never helped anyone. If its presented in a manner most constructive and helpful to Hornby, then frankly that's the most helpful feedback Hornby could get.

[ThaneofFife]

If SK was asking for views on models where tooling has yet to be cut then fair enough providing people bring something new to the table and not keep raking up the same or similar comments over and over, but I wonder how far down the line they have got with the 2BIL for any critiques to make a difference now?  If the horse has already bolted then we're just grinding metal on metal........or wasting "mouse mileage" to paraphrase Andy Y. 

 

If tooling is already well underway no amount of constructive criticism here (no matter how repetitive it may read)

can turn that around, can it?

 

And if I was in SKs boots I would soon tire of having to pour over the same comments but just written slightly differently and have points rammed down my throat.  I would sooner put it down and move onto something else than continue reading it.   Criticism can be constructive - it can also be overdone.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I just find it incredible that RMwebbers and other modellers have been given another opportunity to have a positive effect on a company and its products through careful and considered constructive criticism (as they did with Dapols Western) and so many of the familiar names and faces are shying away from saying anything critical at all except...wait and see?

 

I wonder if that's really the best tactic? Of course you will always get those for whom any and all criticism should be binned: but through a debate such as this you can get a better feel and understanding of what is actually wanted against that Hornby is offering.

 

Simon Kohler asked for views: he's no doubt keeping an eye on this thread too. If the criticism isn't unsubstantiated and isn't personal, then it can only help surely?

 

This a very rare opportunity we've been presented with here. The ability to voice our views and affect the outcome of some future products - Hornby no less.

 

I'm not saying "whine away" I am saying put your cards on the table. What is or what isn't acceptable to you for Railroad or main range models. Ask why certain parts have to be moulded, or if they can be simply included for the purchaser to fit.

 

Saying nothing if you have concerns never helped anyone. If its presented in a manner most constructive and helpful to Hornby, then frankly that's the most helpful feedback Hornby could get.

Isn't it rather difficult to realistically critique a product until the design is pretty well advanced?

 

Motor manufacturers do considerable consumer research at various stages, but it was my experience that they wouldn't show the "final" product until they had got it pretty well sorted, but could still make minor changes.

 

Perhaps Hornby have "gone too early" with some of the images they have released. Until someone can hold a pre-production prototype in their hands, or see detailed photographs, I don't think they can make a really objective assessment of it. Before that anything is conjecture, although even that does have some value in providing a manufacturer with an indication of what some of the consumer body wants.

 

Should the RTR manufacturers consider a more structured approach to consumer research or is the current approach to be preferred?