Hornby's 2013 Announcements

[Metr0Land]

Any model of a BR black 'Trout' with markings as per BR diagrams (with or without photographic evidence) would positively drip with authenticity compared to a lot of the 'Private Owner' wagons on the market.

It might drip with authenticity for you, me and some others (I would certainly like a few) but sadly the recent history of this board is, that if/when Hornby announce a particular model in a particular variant that's not well documented they get met with howls of WHERE'S THE EVIDENCE on here (see Castle discussions a while back).

[Dunsignalling]

Theres a photo of Star class member 4056 'Princess Margaret' in BR livery in '56 here http://www.tyseleylocoworks.co.uk/tlw/images2/4056_pbw_v.jpg

Thanks for the prompt info.

 

I have a few books with B&W pictures of Stars in action but they are all too dirty to tell.

[Brian D]

I can't believe how long this thread has grown and wandered.  So little information from Hornby has generated so much "froth" IMHO.  Sorry if this offends but is it not time for the Mods to pin this thread pending more info from Hornby re individual models?  Just a suggestion - whoops, "tin hat time" for me I think!

Regards,

Brian. 

[OFFTHE RAILS]

 

Another matter that came up in conversation earlier today was whether or not the few surviving ex-GWR Stars would ever have received BR green livery. Many (if not most) Class 5P locos on other regions (e.g. Schools and King Arthurs) were finished in lined black unless repainted after 1956. The last two Stars went for scrap in '57 and it seems reasonable to assume they would not have been repainted for several years prior to wihdrawal.

 

As I was only 5 at the time, can anybody enlighten me, one way or the other?

King Arthurs when repainted after nationalisation received BR lined green.

As for Stars - I've looked at photos in "Portraits of Western 4-6-0s" by Holden and Leech and :

4048 at Bath in the early 50s - BR lined green with large early crest

4062 at Chippenham - ditto

4022 at Swindon Feb 52 - ditto

4038 at Westbury apr 52 - ditto

4021 at Chippenham - Jun 50 - ditto

4056 at Chippenham - Jun 52 and Bristol May 55 - ditto

4053 at Chippenham - Jun 52 - ditto

4020 at Bath - Mar 51 in GW green with G(crest)W

 

Ian

[Dunsignalling]

King Arthurs when repainted after nationalisation received BR lined green.

As for Stars - I've looked at photos in "Portraits of Western 4-6-0s" by Holden and Leech and :

4048 at Bath in the early 50s - BR lined green with large early crest

4062 at Chippenham - ditto

4022 at Swindon Feb 52 - ditto

4038 at Westbury apr 52 - ditto

4021 at Chippenham - Jun 50 - ditto

4056 at Chippenham - Jun 52 and Bristol May 55 - ditto

4053 at Chippenham - Jun 52 - ditto

4020 at Bath - Mar 51 in GW green with G(crest)W

 

Ian

More thanks. I do have a copy of that book but can't find it at the moment !

[Ravenser]

Paul hasn't anything earlier enough - had this discussion when the LNER Trout first came out on this Forum - and I've searched through 100s of photos at exhibitions all year. I have books by David Larkin etc and none show the original BR livery. Other BR livery ballast wagons, but not the Trout.

 

Paul

Two thoughts come to mind:

 

1. Is it possible they didn't carry it? Did they , for some reason, not get repainted until Gulf Red and Engineers Green came into fashion? I know "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" , but when the evidence is available for other wagons, that is suspicious, and enough other wagons carried black many years after it had ceased to be the "current" livery for it to be possible that the Trout never got repainted....

 

2. Black is not a terribly difficult livery to paint. I've done it myself on a kit or two. A tin of Chaos Black, varnish patches for the transfers, and a packet of transfers. Job done. Then weather - which is probably most of the work.  I haven't checked Modelmasters' Engineers sheets, but provided suitable transfers are available it should be a fairly straightforward job, and wagons are one field in which airbrushes are not necessary , and you can still equal or beat a factory finish at home  

 

If suitable transfers are not available, lobbying Modelmaster to do one of their small "wagon specific" packs, helped by offering to buy 3-4 packs if they do , might be a more productive route than lobbying Hornby 

['CHARD]

The repaint job holds no demons here either.  

 

Pragmatically though, I'll be active in the grey market when it comes to sourcing the cheapest candidate vehicles, thus depriving Hornby and a retailer of revenue.  

 

If there's a repaint in the offing, I'll be looking for unboxed, remaindered, catalogue shop seconds and badly listed ebay lots.  The end result being retail turnover abstraction...

[45568]

, I am equally surprised at the superb Trout ballast hopper. Having already sourced six on discount from Liverpool, stripped, resprayed and renumbered them using Mr. Isherwoods decals,

 

Cheers,

Peter C.

No need to pester Modelmaster Ravenser, Cambridge already have them done! 

'Chard, love that "retail abstraction".....gives a whole new meaning to working through ehattons for bargains!!!

 

cheers,

Peter C.

[Guest Phil]

No need to pester Modelmaster Ravenser, Cambridge already have them done! 

'Chard, love that "retail abstraction".....gives a whole new meaning to working through ehattons for bargains!!!

 

cheers,

Peter C.

 

Quite Peter.

Another one who hasn't kept up with the 43 pages !!!! Come on Ravenser, I'd expect better of you.

I really don't get this argument over evidence of a black ballast hopper when Hornby have retailed this

 

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSQx9Wpoay-EzJdQNnCr_JD2xt5C1SsMRnCuBUUzEzCkUMdgna

 

and this

 

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbB8LqaYBx6QGZYfL0S5z-e8tFf5yG-RiDei_Nuqe8FLywf-1g7Q

 

and this

 

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpXQNRED2oaTBqOQ_VWikjGPnnsGd2r5lMI4jof1OU8yISx3UG

[darren01]

Hi all

Looking at the Titfield Thunderbolt set it looks a little wrong , the coach on the low flat was only used in the film with the loco lion and not the 1400, if Hornby was going to do this right they should have done the 1400 with the stock that it did pull at the beginning of the film .

It just seem to me that Hornby have just had a look round at what they have and put this little lot together and sell it as a Ltd set.

Even the coach on the low flat is just the old 4 wheeler they have been selling for years, you could make this train up for half the price they are selling it for ,if you just brought the bits to make it.

Darren

[Ben Alder]

Paul hasn't anything earlier enough - had this discussion when the LNER Trout first came out on this Forum - and I've searched through 100s of photos at exhibitions all year. I have books by David Larkin etc and none show the original BR livery. Other BR livery ballast wagons, but not the Trout.

 

Paul

Possibly a bit off topic,but there seems to be some black remaining on this Trout-

 

[James Makin]

Hi all

Looking at the Titfield Thunderbolt set it looks a little wrong , the coach on the low flat was only used in the film with the loco lion and not the 1400, if Hornby was going to do this right they should have done the 1400 with the stock that it did pull at the beginning of the film .

It just seem to me that Hornby have just had a look round at what they have and put this little lot together and sell it as a Ltd set.

Even the coach on the low flat is just the old 4 wheeler they have been selling for years, you could make this train up for half the price they are selling it for ,if you just brought the bits to make it.

Darren

 

With that Titfield set I'd be fascinated to see a breakdown on the type of person who buys that, but I really admire they've cobbled together existing items and added value, onto some otherwise dead products, even if it's not 100% accurate.

 

Speaking as a comparative youngster (a tender 26!) the film is far from current and bears no relevance on my life, so you'd presume the target audience is at least 35-40+, so perhaps one might think the buyers of the set would either be people gifting (who may never have even seen the film) or more likely the Titfield collectors types, whereby as long as it remains mint boxed, accuracy isn't paramount.

 

I find this genuinely interesting, I'm no fan of the subject matter but if I worked for Hornby this is exactly the kind of project I'd be keen to do more of and see where further value can be extracted from the current range.

[petethemole]

My crystal ball is showing me a Geat St Trinian's Train Robbery set!

 

Pete-rulengro

[gwrrob]

My crystal ball is showing me a Geat St Trinian's Train Robbery set!

 

Pete-rulengro

 

What will they use for a George Cole type figure I wonder.

[Metr0Land]

What will they use for a George Cole type figure I wonder.

Apparently Andy's been laser scanned but he's sworn to secrecy

[hmrspaul]

Two thoughts come to mind:

 

1. Is it possible they didn't carry it? Did they , for some reason, not get repainted until Gulf Red and Engineers Green came into fashion? I know "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" , but when the evidence is available for other wagons, that is suspicious, and enough other wagons carried black many years after it had ceased to be the "current" livery for it to be possible that the Trout never got repainted....

 

2. Black is not a terribly difficult livery to paint. I've done it myself on a kit or two. A tin of Chaos Black, varnish patches for the transfers, and a packet of transfers. Job done. Then weather - which is probably most of the work.  I haven't checked Modelmasters' Engineers sheets, but provided suitable transfers are available it should be a fairly straightforward job, and wagons are one field in which airbrushes are not necessary , and you can still equal or beat a factory finish at home  

 

If suitable transfers are not available, lobbying Modelmaster to do one of their small "wagon specific" packs, helped by offering to buy 3-4 packs if they do , might be a more productive route than lobbying Hornby 

I don't understand the comment "Is it possible they didn't carry it?"

There are plenty in black on my pages, but only after some modification of the lettering.

 

I'm certainly not bothered as Hornby appear to be using my collections extensively, without ever acknowledging the use (there appear to be 8 in the new catalogue) let alone paying for a download. This years trout is https://www.Hornby.com/shop/2013-range/wagons/r6622-zfozfp-trout-ballast-hopper/   http://bit.ly/Ygy2RG http://bit.ly/Ygy2RG  Wasn't the photo they used from Lens in the original adverts for the Trout in an early BR livery?

 

Paul Bartlett

[Andy Y]

Simon's just dropped me an email to come back to some of the content under discussion. Simon wishes me to thank all those who have written to him with their views and suggestions, all of which he has responded to, however he cannot find an email from Jeremiah Bunyan and as he is asking for a reply Simon has kindly asked him to send it again. The particular comments about the Duke's deflector handrails are under consideration but maybe for a future point.

 

He'd like to confirm that because of the vagaries of tenders where the Rebuilt West Country locomotives are concerned Hornby have decided to change the name of R3160XS "Braunton" to "Wincanton".

 

The black Trout point has been noted by Simon and he's confirmed they're actively looking for the appropriate source material so if anyone can assist please do drop him an email.

 

 

 

Everyone who has passed an opinion does so because they believe it is valid and so it should be.  Obviously in the general scheme of things there will be some comments raised that I may disagree with but that certainly does not make them any less valid.  It may even surprise you that although I may not agree with some views expressed I believe that they are certainly worthy of further investigation. I have always maintained that we are not perfect and that at times we may spread are activities a bit thin but we have a passion and a belief in the world of model railways.  We also believe that it is our responsibility to create models and accessories that  develop the first time train set buyer into the modeller of tomorrow and if that means creating train sets that have variety rather than detail accuracy then so be it.  Without new blood where will this hobby be in 30 years time?

 

Finally, may I wish you all a great New Year and let us all hope that 2013 will bring us all peace and happiness.

[hmrspaul]

 

The black Trout point has been noted by Simon and he's confirmed they're actively looking for the appropriate source material so if anyone can assist please do drop him an email.

 

 

Didn't take much work to find one! As I feel unhappy about how Hornby frequently use my photo collection I am not sure why I am helping. However there is a very nice official of DB992125 on page 66 of

Beddoes, Keith; Wheeler, Colin & Wheeler, Stephen () Metro-Cammell 150 years of craftsmanship. Publ. Runpast Publications 112 pages. ISBN 1 80754 46 8.

 

It has some nice "Empty to ... " lettering.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

There are a lot of this book at http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&ref=bf_s2_a5_t1_92&qi=Hy1CSRTiEwVkJGNpWu45QAPUF5Y_0585950919_2:99:1141&bq=author%3Dkeith%2520beddoes%26title%3Dmetro%2Dcammell  Some very cheap. There are a good number of other railway related excellent photos in it.

[micklner]

Questions for Mr Kohler

 

1. Is the annouced in 2012 list A3 Book Law in LNER Green ever going to happen? The main reason I am asking is the Tender as a Non Corridor version has never been produced by Hornby in LNER livery and is sorely needed by many LNER modellers.

 

2. A general question(s)

 

            When are Hornby going to provide Customer Service whereby Hornby sell body parts as spares/replacements? They offer most of the chassis parts but again not every part why is this ? e.g on the A3 you can buy the bogie but not the mounting bracket to attach it to the chassis !! ??.

          Bachmann offer a good service for the virtually all parts including seperate Tenders.

          Hornby ignore the Customer and hide behind " they are made in batches and we cant supply replacement parts for lost damaged items". Simply not good enough Hornby .

        Your customers are paying a lot of hard earned money for your products. Due to the way they are made and the high level of detail (thank you, please dont go back to lower detail models .I for one wont be buying any) they are very fragile products. It is obvious that small parts will break off and be lost or not repairable. Hornby should provide a level of  Customer service that should be readily available to replace these items.

        Perhaps Hornby hope that you will at this point  the aggrieved customer simply throws a very expensive Loco in the bin and buys another one ? More likely is the aggrieved customer doesnt bother buying from Hornby again !!

[Ian J.]

I don't think Mr Kohler and I would ever agree on the hi-fi vs mid-lo-fi thing, but kudos to him for listening and he's very right re the need for an entry point into the hobby for new starters (kids or otherwise).

[S.A.C Martin]

Everyone who has passed an opinion does so because they believe it is valid and so it should be. Obviously in the general scheme of things there will be some comments raised that I may disagree with but that certainly does not make them any less valid.

That's a very fair view there from Mr Kohler: it would be wise to consider that last point very carefully.

 

 

We also believe that it is our responsibility to create models and accessories that develop the first time train set buyer into the modeller of tomorrow and if that means creating train sets that have variety rather than detail accuracy then so be it. Without new blood where will this hobby be in 30 years time?

I don't think anyone has any truck with that, but I would wager than many think Hornby have the perfect balance in their current setup with the Railroad range and the main range models.

 

In the case of certain upcoming models I believe Hornby can achieve their aims to sell to both markets proficiently by simply designing their models to share the same chassis on locomotive and tender (with perhaps different valve gear or not as the case may be) and have two separate bodyshells for each (or, "design clever" by allowing moulded detail for the low end model to be entirely interchangeable with the high end model's finer details).

 

In short, Hornby already have a perfect balance in terms of product diversification, and the best example of this can be found in their 4472 Flying Scotsman products, which includes both a Railroad version and a main range model, thereby satisfying both markets equally.

 

I feel that the vast majority of the modellers on here and elsewhere are positive about much of the 2013 announcements and only really seek clarity as to specific products and their specifications in any event.

 

To bring my part in the debate to a close, I will happily shell out for a Railroad P2 with lesser detail to have a go at making a streamlined variant - and I know my godsons will want a Gresley P2 of their own (big, green, named, etc), but equally for my own specific modelling, a top of the range Gresley P2 to the same detail specification as the recent Thompson O1 or Gresley B17 would be a "must buy".

 

 

Finally, may I wish you all a great New Year and let us all hope that 2013 will bring us all peace and happiness.

 

I wholeheartedly support that point and wish Mr Kohler and Hornby a great 2013.

[PaulG]

Didn't take much work to find one! As I feel unhappy about how Hornby frequently use my photo collection I am not sure why I am helping. However there is a very nice official of DB992125 on page 66 of

Beddoes, Keith; Wheeler, Colin & Wheeler, Stephen () Metro-Cammell 150 years of craftsmanship. Publ. Runpast Publications 112 pages. ISBN 1 80754 46 8.

 

It has some nice "Empty to ... " lettering.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

There are a lot of this book at http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&ref=bf_s2_a5_t1_92&qi=Hy1CSRTiEwVkJGNpWu45QAPUF5Y_0585950919_2:99:1141&bq=author%3Dkeith%2520beddoes%26title%3Dmetro%2Dcammell  Some very cheap. There are a good number of other railway related excellent photos in it.

Paul

 

Thank you for your help.

I have looked through a large number of photographs at exhibitions in the past 12 months and have a very good collection of wagon books obtained over the past 40 years, but none show the Trout in "original" BR livery/dated early 1950s. I do not have a copy of the book you mention, a situation which will be corrected!

 

Regards

Paul

[James]

In the case of certain upcoming models I believe Hornby can achieve their aims to sell to both markets proficiently by simply designing their models to share the same chassis on locomotive and tender (with perhaps different valve gear or not as the case may be) and have two separate bodyshells for each (or, "design clever" by allowing moulded detail for the low end model to be entirely interchangeable with the high end model's finer details).

 

I have a feeling that's exactly what Hornby are trying to avoid - two seperate tools will clearly add significantly to their costs - shared research/design but otherwise still two sets of tooling for the body. Not exactly 'design clever'. If going down this route there's no need to publicise the moulded details across the entire range and would allow the top price to be charged for the full fat version if the models were perceived as entirely different.

 

Flying Scotsman based products have a different reach within the market so it's easier for two different versions to be fully supported - I doubt two entirely different versions of Thompson's various Pacifics would attract the same kind of volume of sales. After all you only have to see the crap Scotsman products which sell in the back pages of the glossies which accompany the Weekend papers!

 

Wait and see what happens... And crack on with Ganwick while you're waiting!

[Michael Delamar]

quick question

 

Have they ever hinted at doing the newer model HST in this livery?

 

Evening HST At Leeds. by neilh156, on Flickr

[Guest jim s-w]

That's a very fair view there from Mr Kohler: it would be wise to consider that last point very carefully.

Indeed so, Simon K is perfectly capable of sorting the wheat from the chaff, thats a very polite way of saying that no one should presume to decide whats relevant or not.

I don't think anyone has any truck with that, but I would wager than many think Hornby have the perfect balance in their current setup with the Railroad range and the main range models.In the case of certain upcoming models I believe Hornby can achieve their aims to sell to both markets proficiently

Is that how you read what Simon says? I read it as if theres more profit in the toy market then thats where they will focus. Nothing wrong with that though as they are a business not a charity.

Cheers

Jim