Hornby's 2013 Announcements

[coachmann]

I spoke to Dennis Lovett at York. I mentioned a body upgrade for the V2 and the answer basically was, it will happen eventually but not until the old tooling is worn out.

While it won't please Eastern fans, unless of course they prefer a Hornby duplication, it gives Bachmann a 'window' to work on the mastershot Black Five.

[newbryford]

In answer to your first comment :  the un-numbered / un-named Rail Exclusive Vi Trains R/F 47's supplied with transfers etc sold extremely well !  Modellers have been asking for unnamed/un-numbered models for years.

 

As for the other comment - (Hornby) 00 Gauge ScotRail MK3 coaches should be available later this year,(allowing for Hornby's supply problems) thanks to an enterprising retailer who has already "read" the market, and committed. Supply details and prices etc have not as yet been confirmed, but post 2448 above gives you a basic idea of what we can expect. I'd bet they will sell out very quickly indeed !

 

I'm surprised, as you are normally the first to advocate "being a modeller" and getting stuck in and doing some actual "modelling" rather than most that just purchase what's available, be it right or wrong, and then more often than not, complain about it.

 

Regards

Ken

 

 I don't doubt that the 47's were good sellers - there's a far larger market for them than probably any other class - possibly apart from 37's.

 

If a retailer has read the market - then good luck and I wish them well.

 

Modellers have been asking for unnamed/un-numbered models for years.

 

Absolutely - but there'll still be those who hate/can't/won't do putting on transfers - this is just an observation - not a complaint. If they were already numbered - my modelling/getting stuck in, would probably be to renumber them! Un-numbered or numbered, you'll never please all the people, etc etc.

Cheers,

Mick

[Budgie]

Modellers have been asking for unnamed/un-numbered models for years.

 

Absolutely - but there'll still be those who hate/can't/won't do putting on transfers - this is just an observation - not a complaint. If they were already numbered - my modelling/getting stuck in, would probably be to renumber them! Un-numbered or numbered, you'll never please all the people, etc etc.

As I see it, it's not either numbered or not, but both. So in addition to a pre-nationalisation numbered version (or two), a BR early crest numbered version and a BR late crest numbered version, there should also be unnumbered (and uncrested) versions.

[Legend]

But who are Hornby? For me they ceased to be special when they moved production to China. Yes I know all the benefits claimed by making the change. But really at the end of the day , what now distinguishes Hornby from say.......Dapol?. They both are uk organisations that commission models that are made in China. You could argue that Dapol make a better job of it if you compare threads on Dapols Western compared to say the thread on 42xx. In addition we have design clever which doesn't seem to affect Dapol or Bachmann. I think I'm correct in saying that the Dapol Western is coming in at a lower price than Hornbys latest 31.

 

So really what distinguishes Hornby , other than happy memories of opening red boxes in our childhood, what do they now add to the party ? Would other organisations archieve O1 or L1 standards (generally acknowledged as being fine models) at 42xx or 2bil cost? To me that remains a big question

[bigherb]

 In addition we have design clever which doesn't seem to affect Dapol or Bachmann. I think I'm correct in saying that the Dapol Western is coming in at a lower price than Hornbys latest 31.

 

Not so sure about that. Dapols Western you have to glue on the roof lifting hooks yourself because it would cost to much at the factory.

[GWRLMSLNER]

The V2 received praise as it was a major improvement in the works department.

Quite a few modellers do not mind doing a bit of work on the body if a model runs well.

At least our kind words have resulted in Bachmann doing the same to the V1/3.

Roll on the J39 and J72.

Regarding the Hornby B1, I seem to inhabit a different planet.

They were heavily discounted within a few months of release at several retail outlets.

I would not have bought one if they had been at the "normal" price.

Bernard

I agree with Bernard on this point. I only picked the Hornby B1 when discounted over a short period (a weekend I believe) to £69.50 in July last year. I also think it beats the Bachmann version but would not have paid the extra it was selling at as BOTH are excellent models in their own right,

 

John

[Robin Brasher]

As I see it, it's not either numbered or not, but both. So in addition to a pre-nationalisation numbered version (or two), a BR early crest numbered version and a BR late crest numbered version, there should also be unnumbered (and uncrested) versions.

Hornby did supply alternative names and numbers for the Britannia, Battle of Britain and Princess locomotives in the early 1980s. A few years ago we asked Simon Kohler if Hornby could supply some unnamed locomotives. He said words to the effect that he did not think it was a good idea because he had seen lots of examples when the transfers had been badly applied on second hand models on trade stands and they looked dreadful. 

 

It is a lot easier to name or number or put a cycling lion or late crest on a blank locomotive than it is to rename, rename and recrest an existing locomotive. I have renamed and recrested some Bulleid Pacifics and recrested some M7s. I bought an 00 Works 700. The production number was different to the one I wanted so they provided an unnumered one. I used to find it much easier to renumber locomotives with Methfix transfers. Recently I have had problems with the waterslide transfers lifting when I apply the matt varnish and I have heard that there is less adhesive on modern transfers.

 

A representative from Bachmann said that if you cannot rename a locomotive you should not be modelling railways but to rename or recrest a locomotive to the standard of production models does require some skill. I bought the first Bulleid Pacific that I renamed secondhand for £2 and to rename a new one costing over £100 is a daunting task.

[Ian J.]

I personally don't see why the manufacturers couldn't do short runs of unnumbered and unnamed locomotives as limited or special editions. However, they seem uninterested so unless a third party like a shop or such like were to commission a run, we're unlikely to see it happen.

[paulbb]

Unnumbered locos would only be feasible for larger markets like the US, and possibly Germany (tho I dont think that happens much there).

Given the recent price trends it takes a brave modeller to renumber anything these days, as doing so wipes £££'s of a possible resale values of them.

[rodger5591]

I personally don't see why the manufacturers couldn't do short runs of unnumbered and unnamed locomotives as limited or special editions. However, they seem uninterested so unless a third party like a shop or such like were to commission a run, we're unlikely to see it happen.

 

Why not even RMWebbers getting together to commission some short runs ? That would address some of the unrequited wishlisting that we all indulge in, officially and unofficially.

Even if only some unlined tender variants (or just bodies) were available as separate items in a range of basic railway colours, it would be a useful development. It would be much easier to achieve an accurate representation of a chosen period, loco and livery, especially for modellers of particular GWR insignia and LNER liveries. Putting exacty the right tender behind your chosen A1/10, A3 or A4 can be a frustrating exercise if Hornby or Bachmann aren't making the combination you want and making/commissioning high quality etched kits isn't an option.

['CHARD]

Given the recent price trends it takes a brave modeller to renumber anything these days, as doing so wipes £££'s of a possible resale values of them.

 

"Room for a brave one?"

 

Fortunately there are still enough of us ready and willing to take the tools and fluids even to Margate's finest in the never-ending quest for the ultimate, and regionally correct, hardware to satisfy our needs.  Not sure whether bravery really comes into it assuming one's acquired the core skills, although I'll confess I did flinch the first time I put blade to plastic

[S.A.C Martin]

Putting exacty the right tender behind your chosen A1/10, A3 or A4 can be a frustrating exercise if Hornby or Bachmann aren't making the combination you want and making/commissioning high quality etched kits isn't an option.

 

It's the most frustrating thing in the world if you're an LNER modeller in the 1923-50 period, as Hornby have never produced a non-corridor tender in LNER apple green of either A1/A3 beaded or A4 streamlined type. That automatically rules out locomotives like Flying Scotsman, for example, from the late 30s up to 1949 when it went into blue. 

 

Book Law - cancelled - would have made things so much simpler for a very large number of people modelling the LNER. It was a great pity to lose it. I've said my piece and then some there though.

 

This is the first year that a super detail LNER liveried A1 or A3 hasn't been in the catalogue in some form for many years.

[Fenman]

But who are Hornby? For me they ceased to be special when they moved production to China. ...

 

So really what distinguishes Hornby , other than happy memories of opening red boxes in our childhood, what do they now add to the party ?

 

Have you seen any of their coaching stock? Gorgeous Maunsells, praised to the hills by pretty much everyone and not at awful RRPs; wonderful Gresley and Thompson non-corridors, again no-one seems to have found much bad to say about them, and at decent prices. Finally Bachmann has been stirred into producing a pre-BR set of coaching stock to modern standards, although we have only seen samples of it so far. But without Hornby, we'd be stuck with Bachmann Mk1s and Mk2s and... no, that's about it.

 

That strikes me as an extraordinarily significant contribution, without even looking at some of their wonderful locos. Your post really does remind me of "What did the Romans ever do for us?"!

 

Paul

[rodger5591]

It's the most frustrating thing in the world if you're an LNER modeller in the 1923-50 period, as Hornby have never produced a non-corridor tender in LNER apple green of either A1/A3 beaded or A4 streamlined type. That automatically rules out locomotives like Flying Scotsman, for example, from the late 30s up to 1949 when it went into blue.

 

AFAIK they also haven't made a garter blue A4 without valances or any Pacific at all with the post war numbering system. Also there have been a variety of different tender connections over the years so whole tender swapping isnt exactly straightforward between Hornby models, let alone between Horby and Bachmann. Separately available tender bodies would avoid that problem.

 

I'd be happy to take the knife to a plain body or tender shell, then paint and line it but I'm a bit reluctant to do it if making a mess of it means buying a whole new loco. Only the old Margate bodies are available as spares, and they don't match the current quality.

[Legend]

Have you seen any of their coaching stock? Gorgeous Maunsells, praised to the hills by pretty much everyone and not at awful RRPs; wonderful Gresley and Thompson non-corridors, again no-one seems to have found much bad to say about them, and at decent prices. Finally Bachmann has been stirred into producing a pre-BR set of coaching stock to modern standards, although we have only seen samples of it so far. But without Hornby, we'd be stuck with Bachmann Mk1s and Mk2s and... no, that's about it.

 

That strikes me as an extraordinarily significant contribution, without even looking at some of their wonderful locos. Your post really does remind me of "What did the Romans ever do for us?"!

 

Paul

 

True Paul and I take your point , you cant change history, but again I repeat that Hornby are just the same as Dapol,Heljan and some US manufacturers, retaining a base in the market they serve but outsourcing manufacturing to China.  You could argue that if they hadn't made the Maunsells , someone else would have using exactly the same supply chain ie designed in UK outsourced to China. If they disappeared tomorrow someone would step in to fill the void .  And in some ways you could argue that Hornby producing Limby stuff is preventing other companies from entering the market eg If we didnt have a Limby sprinter would Dapol have produced an OO version of their excellent N one.

 

I just dont see why people wax lyrical about Hornby when essentially its the same as many others, other than the nostalgia factor

[S.A.C Martin]

AFAIK they also haven't made a garter blue A4 without valances or any Pacific at all with the post war numbering system.

 

There is another way...(shameless plug coming) - PH Designs and I have developed a kit to remove the valances and add all of the odds and ends to produce exactly that. I was frustrated that Hornby hadn't produced one, and my chosen time era being what it is, I experimented with a few A4s and then when to Peter Harvey for a proper set of etches to be drawn up. The results are quite nice if I do say so myself.

 

 

 

Also there have been a variety of different tender connections over the years so whole tender swapping isnt exactly straightforward between Hornby models, let alone between Horby and Bachmann. Separately available tender bodies would avoid that problem.

 

I'd be happy to take the knife to a plain body or tender shell, then paint and line it but I'm a bit reluctant to do it if making a mess of it means buying a whole new loco. Only the old Margate bodies are available as spares, and they don't match the current quality.

 

The tender connection issue is frustrating. For a good decade, the plug and pin connection was standard and, whilst it did give a big gap (accepted) it allowed exchange of tenders very easily. The current plug system can however be sorted in some respects by a little modification.

 

 

So for example, the 2012 Railroad Scotsman shares the new bar and plug feature of the super detail models, albeit without the tender pickups (although, bizarrely, as the tender is based on the super detail tender's chassis, including the bottom plate, wheelsets and pickup plate, minus pickups, you could simply add some brass wipers and hard wire the tender very easily), and the bar is (like on the Railroad Tornado) on the tender instead of on the locomotive. You can swap the bar from being on the tender, to being on the locomotive. 

 

 

Like so. Remember to swap the bar around so you can use the close coupling bar with the older style tenders (whose plugs will fit into the holes in the bar).

 

 

And there you have it: older super detail tender coupled to Railroad Scotsman showcasing how to modify the bar/peg arrangement in order to keep your tenders relatively unscathed. The super detail A1s/A3s/A4s with this bar/peg arrangement do however have the bar on the locomotive, not the tender as shown here. Therefore it's just a case of sorting out the wiring to the tender for the locomotive to run with the extra pickups. 

[rodger5591]

There is another way...(shameless plug coming) - PH Designs and I have developed a kit to remove the valances and add all of the odds and ends to produce exactly that. I was frustrated that Hornby hadn't produced one, and my chosen time era being what it is, I experimented with a few A4s and then when to Peter Harvey for a proper set of etches to be drawn up. The results are quite nice if I do say so myself.

 

Nice work. I asked Peter Harvey about the template but he told me it wasn't available to the public, so I made my own to turn the railroad garter blue 4903 Peregrine into 60034 Lord Faringdon of March 1948. It isn't perfect but it will do for now.

 

I too pre-ordered Book Law with the intention to turn it into E99 Call Boy but ....

[S.A.C Martin]

Nice work. I asked Peter Harvey about the template but he told me it wasn't available to the public

That'll be because we were still developing it. I've only just finished the final test etches. I hope to have the production etches ready for sale around May, dependent on funds and a few other bits and bobs in my life at the minute. Nearly there though.

 

I too pre-ordered Book Law with the intention to turn it into E99 Call Boy but ....

 

Same here, although different name and number. It's one of the models I was looking forward to the most in the Hornby catalogue for 2012. Never mind.

[Coach bogie]

it takes a brave modeller to renumber anything these days, as doing so wipes £££'s of a possible resale values of them.

I do not consider resale value when I buy any item, railways or otherwise. I buy for enjoyment. Renumber, reworking etc adds significant personalenjoyment value - resale consideration does not come into it. I have recently taken a knife to a Hornby 14XX to remove topfeed etc and bring up to 1930's condition as I wanted greater accuracy for my time period. As to what I could sell it for (not that I am likely to do so) is ever included in any modifications.

 

Ever considered it may also add value? I streamlined a Hornby Castle and was recently offered £300 for it. Answer - NOT FOR SALE!

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[coachmann]

With Kernow commisioning LSWR push & pull 'Gate Stock', I think Hornby would be slow not to produce a Gresley non-corridor push pull brake third.

[ThaneofFife]

I presume you have sent an appropriate letter to Simon Kohler then Thane ?

Who sends letters in 2013 particularly when the suggestion requires very little "column inches"? 

  Nope.  I sent him an email.

 

Besides that was over a week ago and is probably superfluous as a retailer is already on the case and the livery match to Bachmanns 47/7 and DBSO is part of the sign off deal so I am led to believe. 

 

As the coaches are not intended to run with Hornbys HST power cars the lower body colour difference shouldnt stop a good match with Bachmanns items so I have no concerns about the livery. 

[coachmann]

Larry, it would have been so easy to add my own wish list at this point. Too many prototypes, not enough baseboard.

 

PB

I merely make the point that Hornby would be slow not to use some of its Gresley non-corridor technology. Wish listing definitely not.......When I want a coach I build it.

[Btourer]

I do not consider resale value when I buy any item, railways or otherwise. I buy for enjoyment. Renumber, reworking etc adds significant personalenjoyment value - resale consideration does not come into it. I have recently taken a knife to a Hornby 14XX to remove topfeed etc and bring up to 1930's condition as I wanted greater accuracy for my time period. As to what I could sell it for (not that I am likely to do so) is ever included in any modifications.

 

Ever considered it may also add value? I streamlined a Hornby Castle and was recently offered £300 for it. Answer - NOT FOR SALE!

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

Agree with you 100% Mike! This is the big difference between the modeller and collector market. I have the following models from Hornby's 'Commonwealth Collection' - 60009, 60011 x 2 and 60012. All have been regauged to EM and have been detailed and weathered (Lightly! - they were Haymarket locos!) to match photographs and Yeadon's records from June 1959. One of the 60011 models has been renumbered and renamed to 60004 'William Whitelaw' and 60012 has had the single chimney it came with replaced with a double chimney. None of them have an original box and I haven't kept the certificates.

 

Why? I get much more enjoyment and satisfaction from trying to replicate these locomotives as they were in 1959, and to me, this is of much greater value than what I can get for them on the second hand market. I can say that I made that locomotive my own, and there is no other like it in the world. Surely that makes it even more 'Limited' than the other 999 examples out there!

[mike tugsandsheds]

Agree with you 100% Mike! This is the big difference between the modeller and collector market. I have the following models from Hornby's 'Commonwealth Collection' - 60009, 60011 x 2 and 60012. All have been regauged to EM and have been detailed and weathered (Lightly! - they were Haymarket locos!) to match photographs and Yeadon's records from June 1959. One of the 60011 models has been renumbered and renamed to 60004 'William Whitelaw' and 60012 has had the single chimney it came with replaced with a double chimney. None of them have an original box and I haven't kept the certificates.

 

Why? I get much more enjoyment and satisfaction from trying to replicate these locomotives as they were in 1959, and to me, this is of much greater value than what I can get for them on the second hand market. I can say that I made that locomotive my own, and there is no other like it in the world. Surely that makes it even more 'Limited' than the other 999 examples out there!

I also have to concur, I have several Bachmnn and Hornby Ltd EDs, all have been fully detailed, nameplates attached and weathered appropriately

 

I buy models for the enjoyment of detailing etc, some have been re-sold but purely because they no longer fit with what I'm doing

[mike tugsandsheds]

More Delays to

 

DBS Class 60

 

Sentinels and Class 67's