The London Festival of Railway Modelling

[2ManySpams]

 

 

A second cautionary note is the ever more Model Railway Magazines organising exhibitions for a profit.

 

With now 3 x BRM Exhibitions 1 x Model Rail Exhibitions and now 2 Hornby Magazine Exhibitions (Hartlepool and now Gaydon)

 

This effectively could be reducing the revenue generated to maintain model railway clubs which of course are the lifeblood of the large layouts we see at all exhibitions

 

I don't think I am alone in thinking this

 

Happy Modeling

 

Eltel

 

Terry, the flip side of course is that BRM have funded the construction of a large exhibition layout that will be visiting your Stafford show next year! 

[Graham_Muz]

A second cautionary note is the ever more Model Railway Magazines organising exhibitions for a profit.

 

With now 3 x BRM Exhibitions 1 x Model Rail Exhibitions and now 2 Hornby Magazine Exhibitions (Hartlepool and now Gaydon)

 

This effectively could be reducing the revenue generated to maintain model railway clubs which of course are the lifeblood of the large layouts we see at all exhibitions

 

 

 

It should be noted that not all the magazine organised shows you list are organised for profit for the magazine concerned. At least one you list is raising funds for charity and was a show already in the calender.

[Arthur]

I didn't pay too much attention to the signs, I wasn't planning to photograph much anyway, but didn't they ask for 'no photographs to be taken without the layout owners permission' ?

 

Which is very different to a blanket ban on photography.

 

Or did I miss such signs?

[mezzoman253]

You are quite correct in your observation, and they were different from last years "no photography" signs. I'm wondering if it was due to the fact that most modern pocket cameras have flash set on as default, and this can be annoying to the people behind the layouts if not prepared for a "blast".

 

Asking before you shoot is polite, and, I expect not a problem to the operators.

 

Rob 

[Coach bogie]

I didn't pay too much attention to the signs, I wasn't planning to photograph much anyway, but didn't they ask for 'no photographs to be taken without the layout owners permission' ?

 

Which is very different to a blanket ban on photography.

 

Or did I miss such signs?

 

The signs actually say ORGANISERS permission, which is somewhat more challenging.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Arthur]

Thanks for that confirmation Rob, and I agree, it seems only polite to ask first, though I accept that it may be difficult to get through the watching scrum first!! Maybe exhibitors just have to accept that some visitors are going to want a record, and accept it as a compliment to their modelling skills.

 

I just thought it important to clarify; had I not been there, I would have interpreted these posts as stating that there was an absolute photography ban.

 

How officials approach policing this, especially with youngsters, is a different issue, it certainly shouldn't be heavy handed.

 

Edit,

 

Crossed with Mike's post. Agreed, that does sound more officious, and I believe, is less acceptable.

 

Edit 2. Oh, and judging by the number of layout photographers, either a lot of people obtained 'permission' or just carried on regardless!

[2ManySpams]

People taking and posting photos of layouts and new products at shows is part and parcel of the current scene. Makes no sense banning photography but it is nice to be warned of a big flash!

[mezzoman253]

It's all very well putting up signs, but without an explanation attached they are open to interpretation. It would be helpful if someone could tell us what the signs were actually meant to convey, and for what reason(s) they felt the need to put these up.

 

If it was that important, those that pre-booked could have had it explained on the letter the tickets were attached to.

 

Any of the layout holders know the actual reasoning behind the notices?

 

Rob

 

Edit: I've still got the letter minus the tickets and there's no mention of any photography or filming issues.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The attitude towards photography seems the same as at sporting events like the FA Cup Final in the dim past.

It smacks to me of Warners wanting total control of everything BRM/RMweb/MI, etc. Personally I think that they should be sympathetic to people taking photos, for instance I took mine of BCB and Charlie's Cabin to show my father, who can no longer chase trains or visit exhibitions, but still at 89 takes a keen interest in what goes on. If the exhibition content is good, photos on the web through sites like this, blogs and social media can encourage more people to go. I certainly temper my visits by what I see of the upcoming exhibition content and RMweb is often the first port of call when checking what is on offer.

[Fay Singpoint]

The signs actually say ORGANISERS permission

 

Which ISTR was the wording on the sign at Doncaster. It was quite easy to miss it as it was A4 sized and propped up on one of the ticket counters. There appeared to be only 1 sign.

[mezzoman253]

Which ISTR was the wording on the sign at Doncaster. It was quite easy to miss it as it was A4 sized and propped up on one of the ticket counters. There appeared to be only 1 sign.

If you are going to start posing restrictions on an event, these need to be made clear before the event, not on the door, and temporary A4 sheets will be missed by some. The poster should have details of who to contact on it so permission could be sought of " the organisers".

 

I'd still like an official answer to what was meant and why, please.

 

Rob 

[Oldddudders]

If it was that important, those that pre-booked could have had it explained on the letter the tickets were attached to.

 

I think it is a little late by then - it should be writ large when the online invitation to book is viewed, so it becomes a condition of booking.

 

This is 2013. Everyone and his idiot brother and sister has a phone with a camera attached. More pictures are taken every year now than in the whole of the C20, so - the Home Office to note also - people expect to take pictures anywhere reasonable. Theatres, or Wimbledon and St Andrews etc, are conspicuous exceptions - because the probable flash may affect performers' abilities. If railway exhibition promoters want to stop photography they will have a hard time making it stick - but they need to offer an alternative, like a colour brochure full of professional pictures of the actual exhibits on the day, which of course isn't likely.

 

Rules that you cannot enforce just make you look foolish.

[Verityboo]

If you are going to start posing restrictions on an event, these need to be made clear before the event, not on the door, and temporary A4 sheets will be missed by some. The poster should have details of who to contact on it so permission could be sought of " the organisers".

 

I'd still like an official answer to what was meant and why, please.

 

Rob 

Agreed

 

It is a really really basic principle that when a contract is formed between 2 parties, one party cannot introduce changes afterwards (like additional rules) without agreement from both parties

 

When I paid at the cash booth a contract was formed between me and the organisers (me to pay a sum of money & the organisers to let me in), it is at that point than any rules must be agreed, there weren't any on show. They can't start imposing rules and regulations after entry (like no photography) when  the contract has already been formed.

 

That is why I ignored the ban and simply asked the exhibitors before filming, they were happy to let me. A great show, a good variety of layouts and I really enjoyed it.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Theatres, or Wimbledon and St Andrews etc, are conspicuous exceptions - because the probable flash may affect performers' abilities. If railway exhibition promoters want to stop photography they will have a hard time making it stick - but they need to offer an alternative, like a colour brochure full of professional pictures of the actual exhibits on the day, which of course isn't likely.

 

Rules that you cannot enforce just make you look foolish.

Never had a problem at Wimbledon, just turn off the flash. The main condition is you don't sell the pictures without AELTC permission.

 

PHOTOGRAPHY AND FILMING

The use of photographic equipment must not inconvenience any other person in the Grounds. Still photographs, film, videotape or other audio-visual material recorded within the Grounds may not be sold or used commercially in any way whatsoever unless authorised by the AELTC and may be confiscated by the AELTC  if such sale or commercial use is suspected. AELTC shall own all intellectual property rights in materials taken or recorded in the Grounds. 

 

 

[multivac]

In all a good show with an interesting selection of layouts, and trade; however a few negatives come to mind.

 

I think, 11 GBP at the door is a too high a price for the content and comparing show size Warley 2013 is 13.50 GBP on the door. I would think something like 8 GBP would be more appropriate.

 

The guide was very poor compared to previous years and was no more than a map.I would prefer a guide more like the one from the Nottingham show and with the magazine's resources would not be too difficult to produce.

[Oldddudders]

Never had a problem at Wimbledon, just turn off the flash. The main condition is you don't sell the pictures without AELTC permission.

 

PHOTOGRAPHY AND FILMING

The use of photographic equipment must not inconvenience any other person in the Grounds. Still photographs, film, videotape or other audio-visual material recorded within the Grounds may not be sold or used commercially in any way whatsoever unless authorised by the AELTC and may be confiscated by the AELTC  if such sale or commercial use is suspected. AELTC shall own all intellectual property rights in materials taken or recorded in the Grounds. 

 

 

As an engineer, you probably have some idea how to turn off the flash. Others, however......

 

AELTC has clearly thought it through, and published accordingly. No argument with that.

[ELTEL]

It should be noted that not all the magazine organised shows you list are organised for profit for the magazine concerned. At least one you list is raising funds for charity and was a show already in the calender.

Fair point Graham

 

It will be interesting to see if the new exhibition to be held later this year at Gaydon is on the grounds.

 

I know that some model railway clubs do raise money for charity and at Stafford we have raised money for both the local hospital children's ward and Help the Hero's with the help of Graham Shaw ex Shawplan

 

Warley also have fund raising at there exhibition

[Anthony]

Could one not argue that in the absence of an apostrophe, the sign has no meaning in English anyway?

 

Must go, pedantry police at the door.

 

Anthony

[Mod5]

Whilst I think it is perfectly in order to ask the organisers why they have this blanket ban in place perhaps we should give them time to finish at the show which is still on the go.

 

So if we give it a couple of days to let them have their day off after a couple of hectic days at the show let alone the setting up and taking down and then perhaps one may come on here and explain the reasons.

[mezzoman253]

No problem with that at all. 

 

Thanks Mod 5,

 

Rob

[Andy Y]

I'll try and come back to you on the photography sign issue tomorrow to avoid the need for further supposition or condemnation. Thanks.

[The Stationmaster]

Which ISTR was the wording on the sign at Doncaster. It was quite easy to miss it as it was A4 sized and propped up on one of the ticket counters. There appeared to be only 1 sign.

I dunno how many signs there were at Ally pally yesterday or how big/small they were but I didn't see them therefore they didn't affect me Hence my earlier, illustrated, post

 

Incidentally taking of queues etc we arrived at c.10.30 and there was a relatively short queue for ticket purchase (son duly sent to do that task) and no queue at all to get in once you'd got a ticket.  Inside it seemed relatively spacious but I understand that despite the weather attendance was slightly up on last year and some commercial concerns seemed quite happy with how the day was going (although some others didn't).  I had no need to join in the Bachmann scramble although I subsequently found an even more interesting 'bargain box' on their stand - it helped if you understood German (to avoid checking the less relevant boxes) but Tillig points at a fiver a go were not very resistible.

[Accurascale Fran]

Why Class 20's? Have they suddenly become worth their weight in gold?....

Bachmann 20s make great chassis donors for some Irish kits, like the NIR hunslet and prototype sulzers. I wonder if the purchaser was mr. Silverfox? Reminds me I need a Bachmann chassis for my MIR Hunslet...

 

This show is one of things I miss about living in London. It was my local show when I lived there and there is nothing here that gets close to it. Nicer venue than Warley too.

[Jon020]

... just catching up with this after some necessary rest and family time; the map had an area designated as "The RMWeb Area" - Top left corner on the map - main hall. I was sat in the area for a while with a coffee and didn't notice anything or anyone I recognised. Was this a map misprint?

Jon

[Nile]

While we can argue about 'commercial' model shows (elsewhere hopefully), without the support of Warners (or someone else) there would be no LONDON show.

And the MRC does quite nicely out of it too, so I'm not complaining.