Hornby 2 BIL

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just a heads up on a renumbered BR version on ebay.No connection.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-2-BIL-EMU-in-BR-SR-green-livery-renumbered-as-Unit-No-2122-/181113305262?ssPageName=ADME:B:FSEL:GB:1123

 

Clever chap has managed to renumber it without opening the box, he must do ships in bottles too.

 

Mike.

[Oldddudders]

Clever chap has managed to renumber it without opening the box, he must do ships in bottles too.

 

Mike.

Yes, it is stretching things a bit, but he does sell a lot of renumbered Maunsells etc, however sadly not in olive livery. There isn't really a definition for "removed from box, rehashed but not run", which is what he does, I think. He is - or at least was when I was - a member of SEmG.

[andyman7]

Yes, it is stretching things a bit, but he does sell a lot of renumbered Maunsells etc, however sadly not in olive livery. There isn't really a definition for "removed from box, rehashed but not run", which is what he does, I think. He is - or at least was when I was - a member of SEmG.

Indeed, ebay's 'pre-filled' options don't really cater for the likes of models. It's a bit like packaging which lets you select from 'sealed' or 'loose' - there seems to be no concept of an opened item that may still have its box. 

[JohnHC]

Bognor to Portsmouth was seldom used as a direct working because of the need to reverse at Barnham however very occasionally trains were timetabled to make such a move.  In 1961 the headcode for Bognor - Portsmouth & Southsea was 10 and to Portsmouth Harbour 12

 

A good selection (though not an exhaustive listing) of headcodes can be found here http://www.semgonline.com/headcodes/eheadcodes.html

Many thanks, most useful.

[Oldddudders]

For a model that was thought to be rare as hen's teeth before release, the fact that there are at least 12 adverts on ebay tonight suggests there is still a plentiful supply about. Interestingly, though, none of them appears to be DCC-fitted.

[RFS]

Kernow still have the NRM version in stock for immediate delivery - http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/39468/R3177_Hornby_2BIL_2_Car_Electric_Multiple_Unit_number_2090 .

 

Slightly more expensive than some but nevertheless available.

[andyman7]

For a model that was thought to be rare as hen's teeth before release, the fact that there are at least 12 adverts on ebay tonight suggests there is still a plentiful supply about. Interestingly, though, none of them appears to be DCC-fitted.

Indeed it could be said that the quantity was about right to ensure a steady sell out without significant discount - in some ways surely what Hornby would want? 

[dseagull]

Saw at least 2 in stock this morning at the Hobby Box in Uckfield. No connection, but one of my regular haunts.

[Gwiwer]

Saw at least 2 in stock this morning at the Hobby Box in Uckfield. No connection, but one of my regular haunts.

 

OMG - Uckfield has been electrified   They kept that very quiet !!!!  

[bazza.]

For a model that was thought to be rare as hen's teeth before release, the fact that there are at least 12 adverts on ebay tonight suggests there is still a plentiful supply about. Interestingly, though, none of them appears to be DCC-fitted.

Hi Olddudders,

 

There is a rumour going round that the next DCC-fitted Hornby 2 BIL unit, painted in BR plain green livery as R 3162AX will be set number 2142 due out in a few months time.

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[Martin_R]

Looks like another batch of the original 2-BIL's have started to arrive at some retailers - Kernow showing both BR and Southern versions in stock.

[Gwiwer]

Kernow also saying they have been taken by surprise by this delivery so perhaps Hornby has reallocated some of the original stock from Modelzone or has managed an interim small run of further models.  The listing has the original catalogue and unit numbers not the forthcoming A-suffix items for which unit numbers are not yet (so far as I am aware) known.

[M.Riddell]

Looks like another batch of the original 2-BIL's have started to arrive at some retailers - Kernow showing both BR and Southern versions in stock.

 

I'll agree with Gwiwer and say it's probably reallocated Modelzone stock. My local branch here in Aberdeen has had the SR and regular BR liveried ones in the cabinet for a while now. Wrong end of the country to get a sale, TBH - same goes for the GW large tanks.....

 

If Hornby's noticed that they aren't selling in certain areas of the country, I'd imagine that they'll move them to an area where they will sell.

 

Mike.

Edited May 26, 2013 by M.Riddell

[Gwiwer]

 

 

If Hornby's noticed that they aren't selling in certain areas of the country

 

Or at the Hornby-Modelzone deal price

[bazza.]

Very pleased with my 2-BIL, lovely detail, etc.  It is supplied with a variety of route head code shutters.  Does anyone know where I can find out the correct code for a route?  Bognor to Portsmouth would be a very useful one for example.

Hi JohnHC,

 

I can only find a time table for one down train and one up train from Bognor to Portsmouth per day. 

Bognor Regis     dep 5.29 am up head code 12

Barnham Jn        arr  5.35

Barnham Jn        dep 5.38 am dn head code 12

Portsmouth Hbr  arr  6.33

 

Portsmouth Hbr  dep 11.08 pm up head code 12

Barnham Jn        arr  11.53   

Barnham JN       dep 11.58  pm dn head code 12

Bognor Regis     arr  12.04

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[Oldddudders]

Hi JohnHC,

 

I can only find a time table for one down train and one up train from Bognor to Portsmouth per day. 

Bognor Regis     dep 5.29 am up head code 12

Barnham Jn        arr  5.35

Barnham Jn        dep 5.38 am dn head code 12

Portsmouth Hbr  arr  6.33

 

Portsmouth Hbr  dep 11.08 pm up head code 12

Barnham Jn        arr  11.53   

Barnham JN       dep 11.58  pm dn head code 12

Bognor Regis     arr  12.04

 

Regards

 

Bazza

Not surprised there aren't many trains, as it involves reversing at Barnham - the early morning move would be to get stock from Bognor into position for an up train from Pompey.

[Gwiwer]

An awkward move at Barnham as well though more so in the opposite direction.  Up Branch to Up Bay then needs to run across the seldom-used connection to Down Main which has to wait for anything else following up the branch or already on the down.  Up Branch to Down Main assumes nothing else requires platform 2 for a few minutes during reversal.   A Portsmouth - Bognor would shunt back from Up Main to Down Branch requiring all other routes to be blocked.  There's not always a lot of opportunity for that at Barnham.

 

12 is a Bognor Regis - Portsmouth Harbour working (or vice versa) while post-1961 10 would indicate destination or origin at Portsmouth & Southsea or any other intermediate point such as Fratton where no other headcode applied.  Prior to 1961 12 would apply to all workings with no separate code for Portsmouth & Southsea or Fratton trips.  15 indicated a Chichester - Portsmouth & Southsea train of which there was one (at about 09.30) in the timetable most years making use of the down bay platform.  The up bay was reserved for parcels use; I don't recall any advertised up Portsmouth - Chichester workings.

[John M Upton]

Ironically now up main to down branch is easier as when Barnham was resignalled a few years back the west end crossover was taken out and a new one going the other way put in so now trains coming from Chichester can cross straight over and come into the down main (platform 2) or branch bay (platform 1) with ease.  Platform 2 is also now bi-directional so eastbound services along the main can now get around anything that may be blocking platform 3 (up main).

 

About the only movement not possible now is from the Up Branch into platform 2 (down main).

 

There is one service in the morning that runs from Chichester to Bognor, it comes down from Gatwick Airport via the Arun Valley and Littlehampton and then terminates at Chichester, bounces into the goods yard and then comes back, using the new crossover to access platform 1 or 2 and then down to Bognor.  The empties from Portsmouth after midnight do the same to get the stock to Bognor for cleaning and stabling, usually a 313 which is the latter day equivalent of a NOL unit we reckon!!

[Gwiwer]

 

a 313 which is the latter day equivalent of a NOL unit we reckon!!

 

 

I reckon the 2Nol was better!  Superior upholstery, a better class of aroma from the greasy side and as classified by the SR "No Lavatory" as opposed to the 313s which seem to have an unofficial one in the corner of most carriages most evenings

[bazza.]

An awkward move at Barnham as well though more so in the opposite direction.  Up Branch to Up Bay then needs to run across the seldom-used connection to Down Main which has to wait for anything else following up the branch or already on the down.  Up Branch to Down Main assumes nothing else requires platform 2 for a few minutes during reversal.   A Portsmouth - Bognor would shunt back from Up Main to Down Branch requiring all other routes to be blocked.  There's not always a lot of opportunity for that at Barnham.

 

12 is a Bognor Regis - Portsmouth Harbour working (or vice versa) while post-1961 10 would indicate destination or origin at Portsmouth & Southsea or any other intermediate point such as Fratton where no other headcode applied.  Prior to 1961 12 would apply to all workings with no separate code for Portsmouth & Southsea or Fratton trips.  15 indicated a Chichester - Portsmouth & Southsea train of which there was one (at about 09.30) in the timetable most years making use of the down bay platform.  The up bay was reserved for parcels use; I don't recall any advertised up Portsmouth - Chichester workings.

My 1956 station plan of Barnham Junction, shows that the loop was bi-directional.

 

The time table from that date shows that a up Bognor Regis to Portsmouth train carring head code 12 departed at 5.29 am from Bognor Regis and would have arrived into the down loop platform 1 at Barnham Junction at 5.35, then half a minute later the 5.27 from Littlehmpton carrying head code 13, arrived, coupled up to the Bognor train, then 3 minutes later both portions departed at 5.38 am as a down train to Portsmouth Hbr. carring head code 12, arriving at Portsmouth at 6.33.

 

In reverse my time table shows the 11.08pm as the last up train from Portsmouth went direct to Bognor Regis via Barnham Junction carring head code 12. It's advertised as arriving at Barnham Junction at Platform 3 on the Up Main at 11.53 pm, then it would have drawn forward to the trailing crossover at the east end of platform 3, then reversed back into the down loop platform 1, then at 11.58 it depart down to Bognor Regis still carring head code 12, arriving at 12.04. At that time of night the main line would not be busy.

 

The Up bay platform was un-numbered and I believe, only used for parcels and freight vans.

 

I'm impressed that the time table only allowed 3 minutes to manually couple two pre-war emu's together, and only half a minute to uncouple.

 

Regards

 

Bazza

[Gwiwer]

Barnham loop has always been bi-directional.  It has been used as such for the branch shuttle since electrification and is often (but by no means always) used for up Bognor-towards-Ford services.  It can be used for Bognor - Portsmouth moves as there is a spur to the Down Main but (and according to posts above) could not be used for Portsmouth - Bognor moves until the recent resignalling as there was then no Up-to-Down crossover west of Barnham station to access that spur.   Up Main - Bognor moves would have reversed from the main platform using the branch up-to-down crossover.

 

SR staff have long been adept at the quick-split or fast-couple as portion working has more or less been the norm since electrifiaction on many routes.  It took barely 2 minutes for an adept shunter to split two 4Cor units for example including unscrewing the gangway connections.  Splitting or joining Bil (or Hal) units was child's play.  When Electrostars with "automatic" cuoplers replaced buckeye-fitted stock splits / combines suddenly required rather longer though due as much to the time the on-board computers took to handshake.  Staff were frustrated at the time taken and it has signifiacntly slowed journey times as witness the stand time at Haywards Heath on the Victoria - East / West Coast splits. 

Edited May 30, 2013 by Gwiwer

[John M Upton]

Its the reconfiguring of the newly coupled units, specifically getting the computer in the front unit to talk to the one in the back unit all before the doors can be released again that causes much of the delay in attachment process with the Electrostars.

 

Splitting is much quicker and at least we don't run the old risk with the slam door era of potentially having the pipes on the wrong side (still happens with the 455/456 family and the 442's from time to time though)

[Gwiwer]

Diverting slightly from topic (though equally applicable to a 2Bil) a "wrong side split", sometimes referred to as an "outside split" was unpopular because the staff risked both contact with an "opposing" train and electrocution from the live rail.  In more recent years it required special advice to the signalman to block the opposing track before staff were permitted to split the units.  In earlier times (before 1970 or thereabouts) it seemed to be performed without such precautions but sometimes with a second person from platform staff acting as look-out for an approaching train.

 

So far as possible rosters which required splits / attaches were arranged so that the pipes are adjacent to a platform in both directions meaning, for example, that at Worthing (Central) the up Victoria trains which normally combined portions there from Littlehampton and variously West Worthing / Portsmouth / Southampton used platform 1 to ensure the pipes were joined on the "offside".  When the train returned those joined pipes were adjacent to platform 3 for the split.  If an up train had to use platform 2 the pipes were then joined on the nearside and an "outside split" scenario occurred upon its return from London.

[talisman56]

It was eye-opening how quickly train splits could be done in the 70s with the Buckeye-fitted stock. I alighted first out of the door from the buffet of the 4BIG in the centre of a late-running rush-hour 12-car Cep-BIG-CIG Vic-Btn/E'bourne train at Haywards Heath and by the time I had walked the length of the DTC they had split the trailing 4CIG, had the gangway doors closed and were waiting on the first part to go...

[stewartingram]

'Twas the olde, REAL railway........

 

Stewart