RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 3, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2013 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=561181610590057&set=a.312706475437573.66640.207521425956079&type=1&theater Does this help or add to the confusion? Brilliant pic - well posted! Just sums up the chaos that has surrounded this model's initial release. Kernow are a very well-respected shop, so hopefully some people will be pleased to accept their offer! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Are we talking about the R3161 or R3161A ? I was under the impression that the R3161 was no longer in production. That doesn't mean that stock isn't available at some outlets. The R3161A is the new model which isn't in stock anywhere yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 3, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2013 Are we talking about the R3161 or R3161A ? I was under the impression that the R3161 was no longer in production. That doesn't mean that stock isn't available at some outlets. The R3161A is the new model which isn't in stock anywhere yet. No locomotive or multiple unit is ever "in production" any more by the time it reaches the market - a run will have been completed and that's that. There may be another run later, but to maximise the attraction of that, running numbers will probably be changed, so we might buy another copy. Hattons' email specifically said R3161, not R3161A, and it is either disingenuous of them to send such a notification, or downright misleading. Anyway, Kernow may be able to help those stranded and downcast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted July 3, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) Kernow may be able to help those stranded and downcast. Indeed they have posted a stockroom photo to their Facebook feed in response to being accused themselves of misleading customers by suggesting they had stock of a "cancelled" item. They appear to have plenty of stock of R3161, 3162 and the X derivatives (see link in post 801) and are taking advance orders, though not money, on the subsequent A-suffix releases which they suggest are due soon. Edited July 3, 2013 by Gwiwer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Had a rather similar problem with a dealer I won't name, with an order for another product that has also been in short supply. Ordered early last year, the dealer left a phone message recently to say the item had arrived. When I phoned back, they'd sold out but more were expected. Then the item had sold out and they wern't getting any more. So they could change my order to another livery that would be delivered to them "soon". As it happened, that version really had sold out, but they wern't going to say that. Then they e-mailed to say that they now had some of the original type I'd ordered. When I phoned up the next day to confirm this, I was told with aggressive rudeness that they didn't have any after all. A manager finally confirmed that the e-mail was correct and they had the original type of item I'd ordered and it would be sent to me. It wasn't. I phoned again, yes, it would be sent. Several days later, it was. Due to problems with the courier, I finally received the (badly packed) item a week later. Hoorah. The point being, like the problems listed above in this thread, I could have bought one from another dealer (when they were still available earlier in this saga) if I wasn't being strung along. There's even more to this story but you get the picture. Good for Kernow in actually proving that they have what they advertise! I know where to go next time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Nor I. As for those who find the Hornby model's shortcomings unacceptable, they can either vote with their feet by not buying it, or demonstrate modelling skills greater than mine by modifying it to meet their requirements. This thread will be the ideal place to demonstrate how Hornby should have done it. Hi Ian, This might be of interest to you! http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73651-2-bil-or-not-2-bil-that-is-the-question/?p=1089070 All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_R Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Passing through Hereford today and called into Hereford Model Centre and was suprised to see a SR 2-BIL for sale. They are always worth a phone call [01432 352809] if looking for something hard to get. No connection other than a very satisfied long term customer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassettLoko Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Further to the Hattons email issue, I have received confirmation that the Hornby R3161A 2-BIL units placed on pre-order, are now expected to be made available from 19th. August, 2013. This is excellent news, as it would appear that either the earlier email concerning Hornby's production cancellation applies to some other model/variant, or (considerably less likely) the management at Margate may have had second thoughts. Either way, a further supply of Southern 2-BIL's wearing 'Maunsell green' now seems to be a certainty. Bertie. Edited July 9, 2013 by BassettLoko Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted July 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 9, 2013 Kernow had a stand at DEMU last weekend and both BR and SR versions of 2-BILs were available. I believe they have plenty but they are a bit more expensive than some other box-shifters. But they do have them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted July 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2013 Kernow had a stand at DEMU last weekend and both BR and SR versions of 2-BILs were available. I believe they have plenty but they are a bit more expensive than some other box-shifters. But they do have them. At a discount of between 7 - 12% depending on model compared with RRP and at a fixed £4 shipping within the UK - or free if your order exceed £150 in value which wouldn't take much with a 2Bil in there. That beats some "box-shifter" prices 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbb Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Modelzone in Manchester (Tues) also has BR 2 Bils. No discounts, though this could change.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Why though? The stock is Hornby's not Modelzone's so isn't actually an asset of MZ's. MZ may not have the authority to discount it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Further to the Hattons email issue, I have received confirmation that the Hornby R3161A 2-BIL units placed on pre-order, are now expected to be made available from 19th. August, 2013. This is excellent news, as it would appear that either the earlier email concerning Hornby's production cancellation applies to some other model/variant, or (considerably less likely) the management at Margate may have had second thoughts. Either way, a further supply of Southern 2-BIL's wearing 'Maunsell green' now seems to be a certainty. Bertie.Is it not simply that R3161 is finished (as Hattons email correctly said) and you have R3161A on order? (as I do)! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2013 Is it not simply that R3161 is finished (as Hattons email correctly said) and you have R3161A on order? (as I do)! No, it's simply that Hattons have sold out of that model; other retailers have not - therefore it is still available (and it is misleading to suggest that it is not available so a simple 'sold out' would make the situation clear to in tending purchasers). Sorry to ramble O/T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza. Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) Sitting on fully chaired, P4 bullhead track, your model really does look every inch a 2-BIL, and no mistake. Very nice photos, too, Bazza, and it certainly proves how very close Hornby came to manufacturing the perfect replica. Nit-picking, I do suspect the Hornby roof ventilator spacing may be slightly wrong - either that, or I've positioned them incorrectly on my kit-built sets! (Ian Kirk) From memory, the vents were roughly equally spaced along the roof, with those above the first class compartments being slightly wider apart. On the model, the 1st class ventilators do appear to be correct, but the 3rd class vents are grouped in pairs above the corresponding compartments. This I believe to be wrong. Only the 2-NOL's had that arrangement, again from memory. I wonder how many 'Southern' modellers today, actually realise that quite apart from being different externally, the first 10 'prototype' 2-BIL's were also very different inside as well? Firstly, all the internal woodwork was stained in 'Dark Jacobean Oak', which was almost black. Along the length of the corridor partition, the dark wood was relieved with cream painted panels, both above and below the partition compartment windows, as well as in between the individual compartments. A single cream panel sufficed between 3rd class compartments, with twin cream panels between each 1st class compartment. The third class upholstery was alternately striped with thin bands of scarlet and black. I confess I cannot now remember what was in first class. Btw, what make are the 4-COR sets seen in one of your earlier photos? Or are they scratch built? I know this forum is for 2 BIL's, but a photo of one of your 4-COR models would be very pleasing to see. Hi BassettLoko. If my memory serves me right, this topic was discussed on this forum about 5 months ago. In short, the first batch of 2BIL units had a smaller Guards/Luggage area, a third class 8 seat compartment in place of the 4-seat coupe on the later units, and electro-magnetic control gear instead of the electro-pneumatic control gear on the later batches. The first photo shows two of the models that I made from the then very basic BSL kits about 45 years ago. Each kit only contained two white metal ends, two pre cut aluminium sides, a two part aluminium floor and and wooden roof. The first BSL kit that I built is at the rear of the photo, now sold I belive as Phoenix kits by the Southern Railways Group, this kit was built as purchased as a model of a 4COR unit. This model was hand painted by me as 4COR unit number 3155. In the foreground in the same photo is the second BSL kit that I made. Now filled with a bit of confidence, and with the help of a Skinley Blueprint, I built a buffet car and turned the 4COR kit into a 4BUF unit numbered 3075. This time I spray painted the model, and as I think that nothing looks like glass than glass, I used 1mm slide glass fro the glazing. For the 8'SR bogies I first made my own master of the bogie side frames in plasticard, then re-cast this in manganese-bronze as a master, then used this master to make my own 8' SR bogie side frames. The second photo shows the third model that I built from a BSL kit. This time also with the help of two Skinley Blueprints, two new 6PAN/6PUL fronts, I built a corridor 1st coach and a pantry car to make a 6 PAN unit number 3022. As before I spray painted this model with Humbrol BR SR multi-unit green, 1mm slide glass for the glazing and my own SR 8'bogies. All three units were and still are powered with second-hand Tri-ang motor bogies, with the original side frame detail filled off and replaced with SR powed bogie detail, re-wheeled to P4 standards, and the original Tri-ang 3 pole armatues replaced with CCW 5 pole armatures. When compared to and placed along side the new Hornby 2BIL, I think that my old emu units don't look to bad. Must get round to painting the Hornby 2BIL destination number box white. Edited July 20, 2013 by bazza. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Hi BassettLoko. If my memory serves me right, this topic was discussed on this forum about 5 months ago. In short, the first batch of 2BIL units had a smaller Guards/Luggage area, a third class 8 seat compartment in place of the 4-seat coupe on the later units, and electro-magnetic control gear instead of the electro-pneumatic control gear on the later batches. IMG_1685.JPG The first photo shows two of the models that I made from the then very basic BSL kits about 45 years ago. Each kit only contained two white metal ends, two pre cut aluminium sides, a two part aluminium floor and and wooden roof. The first BSL kit that I built is at the rear of the photo, now sold I belive as Phoenix kits by the Southern Railways Group, this kit was built as purchased as a model of a 4COR unit. This model was hand painted by me as 4COR unit number 3155. In the foreground in the same photo is the second BSL kit that I made. Now filled with a bit of confidence, and with the help of a Skinley Blueprint, I built a buffet car and turned the 4COR kit into a 4BUF unit numbered 3075. This time I spray painted the model, and as I think that nothing looks like glass than glass, I used 1mm slide glass fro the glazing. For the 8'SR bogies I first made my own master of the bogie side frames in plasticard, then re-cast this in manganese-bronze as a master, then used this master to make my own 8' SR bogie side frames. IMG_1735.JPG The second photo shows the third model that I built from a BSL kit. This time also with the help of two Skinley Blueprints, two new 6PAN/6PUL fronts, I built a corridor 1st coach and a pantry car to make a 6 PAN unit number 3022. As before I spray painted this model with Humbrol BR SR multi-unit green, 1mm slide glass for the glazing and my own SR 8'bogies. All three units were and still are powered with second-hand Tri-ang motor bogies, with the original side frame detail filled off and replaced with SR powed bogie detail, re-wheeled to P4 standards, and the original Tri-ang 3 pole armatues replaced with CCW 5 pole armatures.IMG_1732.JPG When compared to and placed along side the new Hornby 2BIL, I think that my old emu units don't look to bad. Must get round to painting the Hornby 2BIL destination number box white. Hi Bazza, What a wonderful set of photos of your EMUs and most spacious fiddle yard. By now they have been in service with you on your layout (s) for far longer than the real ones did on the SR/BR! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza. Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Hi Bazza, What a wonderful set of photos of your EMUs and most spacious fiddle yard. By now they have been in service with you on your layout (s) for far longer than the real ones did on the SR/BR! All the best, Colin Hi Colin, That is one scary thought, but it does show how well, with regular maintenance over the past 45 years, the original Tri-ang motor bogies can perform. I wish it was, but sorry this is not a photo of my fiddle yard. this is a photo of my model of Barnham Junction to date. Before any ballast and third rail and before scenery. The 4COR-4BUF are on the up main, the 6PAN is on the down loop, and the Hornby 2BIL is in one of the two emu storage siddings. I have been forced to squash 10 sidings into my fiddle yard which is on the other side of the room. Perhapes it's back to front, but I made and laid all the track in my fiddle yard first. Part because it is on the lowest part of the layout, and part because I could corrected and improve my turnout making skills there first, before making the track and turnouts for the scenic part of my layout. The next part of the project is to make and finish all track work for Barnham Junction and to complete the double track circuit round the train shed, before I start any scenery construction. So to complete the Barnham Junction track work, I still need to hand-make, 12 new B7 and B8 turnouts for the down loop to the down main and Bognor branch down line. Make 2 double junctions, one from the main to Bognor branch, and from the emu storage sidings (now lifted) to the branch. And 2 diamond crossings from the down loop across the branch lines to the down main. And just to finish off, 8 A6 and A7 turnouts for the goods yard (long gone) So with all that track work making planned for the future, I do not have a lot of time for making new models. It's easier to watch and copy you with you with your excellent improvements to the Hornby 2BIL. Which I am sorry, that from over here, I can not help you much with your research. Regards Bazza Edited July 22, 2013 by bazza. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Yeah. Let 'im make all the mistakes!!! You are a man after me own 'eart!! Edited July 22, 2013 by SRman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza. Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 (edited) Me thinks, 'im correcting the mistakes Edited July 22, 2013 by bazza. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Me thinks, 'im correcting the mistakes - and it's proving very 'ard I can tell you! Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazza. Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) - and it's proving very 'ard I can tell you! Colin Hi Colin, It should not be unnecessary for you or anyone else, to correct the roof and other detail mistakes on the Hornby 2BIL. I have always believed that it should cost no more to make an accurate model, instead of an inaccurate model of a particular emu, locomotive, coach or wagon. Especially when the real items are in the NRM to measure and photograph. My biggest disappointment with a new model in the past decade, was the roof detail of the then new Bachmann BR Mk1 coaches. I rushed out and purchased a BR(SR) green version, but I was so dissapointed when I saw the over-done heavy ribs on the roof of the model as, BR Mk1 coach roof panels were butt welded together not joined by ribs like LMS coaches. I quickly dumped it and vowed never to purchase another BR MK1 coach from Bachmann until they improved the the roof detail. Luckily for me, Bachmann did remove the heavy ribs on the BR Mk1 coach roofs, when they made their 4CEP emu model, which as we all know were based on the BR Mk1 coaches, and I was able to purchase two much need (by me) units. Keep up your good modelling on the Hornby 2BIL. Perhaps you should contract out you time to Hornby, to advise how to improve their models before release. Regards Bazza Edited July 24, 2013 by bazza. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted July 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 24, 2013 Perhaps you should contract out you time to Hornby to advise how to improve their models before release. Maybe when Dapol Dave takes over at Hornby? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 23/08/2013 Hattons have received stock of 2nd run 2 BILS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted August 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2013 23/08/2013 Hattons have received stock of 2nd run 2 BILS Indeed, Hattons is showing as in stock the NRM version R3177 (unit 2090). But the A versions of the previous releases are showing as due in stock next week and early September. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Yes you are correct its R3177 which is now in stock (NRM?) I did not bother to read all 4 eMails Hattons sent me just now they are all the same referring just to R3177!! I Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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