Hornby Star Class

[Gruffalo]

Wycrail provided an opportunity to get a close look at KoGC. It is good but not great. Lining is ok, cylinders seemed ok if lining isn't perfect and the front isn't perfectly straight. I also think the "between frames" detail (not too bad as far as I could see) has been painted a shade of Salmon Pink. Cab side handrail moulding is disappointing when we know Hornby has done wire rails here in the past. It still is an impressive model and Lode Star remains on my list of bits to acquire new.

 

I leave the reporting of discussions with Simon Kohler to The Stationmaster and 81C. Blows were not exchanged but it may have been "damn close run thing"!

[gwrrob]

 Blows were not exchanged but it may have been "damn close run thing"!

 

Someone was nearly seeing stars then....

[melmerby]

Something I have noticed is that the cylinder/valve casing on 4018 seems to cut into the metalwork above far more than it looks in photos of the real thing.

It is more like a Castle in this instance.

 

It looks like a function of having new cylinders and different steam pipes

Assuming Lode Star is without pipes is it the same?

 

Keith

Edited November 2, 2013 by melmerby

[The Stationmaster]

Right having narrowly avoided the blows passing between 81C and SK I am still a bit concerned about this loco but not cancelling my pre-orders.  I tackled SK about the disparity in pricing on various GW engines and what we get for our money and all he could say was that pricing is Hornby's prerogative - perhaps I should have replied that paying is ours?  Anyway he is absolutely convinced that they are right and we are wrong and 'Stars' had 12 spoke bogie wheels, not 10 spoke, he's said he would check  (I subsequently found out that he had been pre-wound on this issue so no wonder he was a bit prickly - oddly the new 'Hall', a railroad model, has got the correct bogie wheels!

 

As 81C has noted the tender with 'Glastonbury Abbey' needs some careful checking but it might not be right - delving is called for but it will be a shame if it adds up to yet another error.  Overall what did worry me is the attitude that there isn't anything wrong with what we're producing and if there was we'd have a warehouse full of returned models - I'm sure the chap has had a busy, and possibly rough, few weeks of shows but it was not a good advert for Hornby today to be honest.

[Ian Hargrave]

Without in any way wishing to appear contentious,the most popular 'era' (We are told) is BR Steam.I would imagine that many of our number are 'keeping their powder dry' until the release of 4061.

There is also the matter of conserving financial resources,it being near to 'harvest time' in the matter of new releases and the general austere economic outlook.

GWR 'types' .......I am one,being raised on chocolate and cream at my mother's milk.....will probably take a while to come to terms with this.There is also the imminent release of Lode Star to consider.Apparently,Steam have pre-sold about 500 of these..so we are told.Add to the mix the problem of decent r-t-r carriages for the period and ,frankly,I'm not surprised.

I imagine that,after this first flush of enthusiasm,4018 is going to experience slow turnover.

[7013]

I feel sorry for SK but he will not be doing himself or Hornby any favours if he is in denial regarding the wheels., and they get the big tender wrong.

[Oldddudders]

 

Cheltenham Models had several of the GWR version for sale and they were not flying of their stand it can't be be a popular model.

Checking their website, I see pricing for the DC version is £120, but only £124.50 for the DCC-fitted example. Are those really regarded as high prices for a new model today? I mean the same shop offers a forthcoming M7 0-4-4 tank for over £100, when these have now been in production for some years.

[BG John]

Just out of interest, I suppose there's not a version in as built condition. One of the many layout ideas I've had on the way to deciding what to build next might have given me an excuse for one in original condition! As long as it's straightforward to convert to EM too!

[coachmann]

Right having narrowly avoided the blows passing between 81C and SK I am still a bit concerned about this loco but not cancelling my pre-orders.  I tackled SK about the disparity in pricing on various GW engines and what we get for our money and all he could say was that pricing is Hornby's prerogative - perhaps I should have replied that paying is ours?  Anyway he is absolutely convinced that they are right and we are wrong and 'Stars' had 12 spoke bogie wheels, not 10 spoke, he's said he would check  (I subsequently found out that he had been pre-wound on this issue so no wonder he was a bit prickly - oddly the new 'Hall', a railroad model, has got the correct bogie wheels!

 

As 81C has noted the tender with 'Glastonbury Abbey' needs some careful checking but it might not be right - delving is called for but it will be a shame if it adds up to yet another error.  Overall what did worry me is the attitude that there isn't anything wrong with what we're producing and if there was we'd have a warehouse full of returned models - I'm sure the chap has had a busy, and possibly rough, few weeks of shows but it was not a good advert for Hornby today to be honest.

I thought this was the attitude months ago, which is why I used the word cavalier.

Edited November 2, 2013 by coachmann

[Ian Hargrave]

Referring to Mike's posting...thank you for that.....it does seem to me that we are imbuing Mr.K. magical powers which he simply does not have. He is the Aunt Sally who,single-handedly,fronts the show....or,recently,the Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke.

Unsurprising that he goes defensive,then.....with good reason,it seems. I have sympathy.I think I'd be going home to a swift glug of malt if I were in his shoes.Surely,there are more staff back at Margate to share his burden.

[robmcg]

Hope Rob doesnt mind, but I have taken his image and added the missing lining on the bufferbeam and the angle at the side of the bufferbeam. Also altered the shape of the cylinder lining and added the two verticle orange lines, merely to show what can be added to bring this model up to scratch.

WEB Robs image altered.jpg

 

Not at all Coach, very pleased to have your extra fine touches. Do doubt I will copy them in pictures to come.

 

Rob

[melmerby]

Anyway he is absolutely convinced that they are right and we are wrong and 'Stars' had 12 spoke bogie wheels, not 10 spoke, he's said he would check  (I subsequently found out that he had been pre-wound on this issue so no wonder he was a bit prickly - oddly the new 'Hall', a railroad model, has got the correct bogie wheels!

 

If that's his attitude he's on a hiding to nothing.

I have been wading through my many GWR books and cannot find a single case of anything other than 10 spoke bogie wheels on a modern (e.g. Churchward onward) GWR loco

Some absorbed locos have different numbers of spokes but not Swindon product.

 

Hornby really ought to admit a mistake has been made and get on with it.

All their other GWR locos AFAIK have 10 spoke so what went wrong?

 

Keith

 

Edit maybe we should bombard Margate with e-mailed pictures of the right bogies?

Edited November 2, 2013 by melmerby

[The Stationmaster]

Referring to Mike's posting...thank you for that.....it does seem to me that we are imbuing Mr.K. magical powers which he simply does not have. He is the Aunt Sally who,single-handedly,fronts the show....or,recently,the Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke.

Unsurprising that he goes defensive,then.....with good reason,it seems. I have sympathy.I think I'd be going home to a swift glug of malt if I were in his shoes.Surely,there are more staff back at Margate to share his burden.

The problem for him is that he's the public face of the company Ian and he's certainly had a busy (and possibly harrowing?) load of exhibition presences of late on top of which he no doubt has a full 5 day working week back at Margate.  I don't envy him his position but he was no doubt in full defensive mode by today, and moans about a product they are actually managing to deliver was no doubt not the best tonic in the world for the end of the working week.

 

He was fairly frank about the supply situation saying 'clearly we are not happy with it' and I've no doubt the Interim Company report will say the same but he implied that sales of other ranges were ok and hence the company's position is also ok.  He did incidentally tell a pal of mine that new introductions are planned for 2014 so at last the frothing thread can run if full forward gear to get underway come December.  But he does, regrettably, set himself up by saying things that suggest Hornby are right and we are all wrong when it comes to 'Star' bogie wheels.

 

In contrast I have to sat the new Mk1 coaches look good and the LMS CCT looks very good (although it seems to have French buffers, or were they really straight across both top & bottom). wonder).

[melmerby]

 

Cheltenham Models had several of the GWR version for sale and they were not flying of their stand it can't be be a popular model.

Strange that several places seem to have healthy pre-orders and have sold out of their initial allocation!

Maybe nobody was buying because they were still waiting for a pre-ordered loco to arrive?

 

Keith

Edited November 2, 2013 by melmerby

[57xx]

Right having narrowly avoided the blows passing between 81C and SK I am still a bit concerned about this loco but not cancelling my pre-orders.  I tackled SK about the disparity in pricing on various GW engines and what we get for our money and all he could say was that pricing is Hornby's prerogative - perhaps I should have replied that paying is ours?  Anyway he is absolutely convinced that they are right and we are wrong and 'Stars' had 12 spoke bogie wheels, not 10 spoke, he's said he would check  (I subsequently found out that he had been pre-wound on this issue so no wonder he was a bit prickly - oddly the new 'Hall', a railroad model, has got the correct bogie wheels!

 

Someone send that man a copy of O.S. Nock's 'GWR Stars, Castles & Kings' so he can do a bit of simple research.    I thought they'd managed to crawl out of the toy train market, but with the "don't care" attitude seeming to be shown above, they are losing their way. 

 

Thanks for that info KGV.It must have been a small delivery as both The Stationmaster and myself both ordered over the Christmas period last year and have heard nothing.Getting it for Christmas should be possible.It sounds like Geoff Davies is happy with them.

 

 A VERY small delivery. Mine was order #11, so at most they could only have received 10! Just keeping my fingers crossed it's up to the standards of the NRM 2818.

[robmcg]

Thank you Rob, as usual superb shots, Generally Hornby have captured the sheer grace of the Star which was a beautiful loco. The apparent upturn at the front plate looks more or less pronounced depending on the angle viewed, I'm wondering if it is an optical illusion? To be honest the 12 spoke wheels are not obvious on casual viewing. Worth buying? That would depend on how desperate one is to own a.Star, and if one can justify the cost. However all that said, given that Hornby are going through a traumatic time in the company they have produced a nice looking if poorly detailed model, if this is as bad as it gets then there is hope for the future.

 

Thanks 7013 and Thankyou all, it really did feel odd to receive my 4018 model when many in the UK are still waiting, top marks to Kernows, order placed Sat 26 Oct, packed same day and 'ready for despatch' by £8.00 airmail packet received here in 5 working days on morning of 2 Nov, not a record for me but close!

 

I agree the slight bend in the inside front cylinder cover is even apparent on the factory box picture but may be more optical effect or lens effect than actual, presumably Lode Star or Gladstonbury Abbey has the scalloped type of cover, and the tooling must allow for changes/fitting discrepancies here.

The camera is pretty cheap and nasty optically, Canon SX150is  distortion at the margins is likely, so not to be trusted fully, but it's pretty good in the middle for sharpness and resolution, and has Canon software which I am used-to  and they are strong cameras!

 

Most important to me is that the model captures the graceful proportions of the engine beautifully, and even though I have a set of Castle front wheels to fit, I am not over-impressed by the profile of them either... rather wide and deep-flanged compared to some models.  Anyone know of other suppliers?

 

Thanks for that picture tidy-up too, Coach, I don't mind at all.

 

Rob

 

As to the 12-spoke front wheels, it does seem odd that Hornby changed to them right from the first announcement, and nobody noticed.

 

typo edit

Edited November 2, 2013 by robmcg

[gwrrob]

 

As to the 12-spoke front wheels, it does seem odd that Hornby changed to them right from the first announcement, and nobody noticed.

 

typo edit

 

To be honest I don't usually check the number of spokes because I assume they are right.I've just found a photo of 4015 'Knight of St John' and 4014 'Knight of the Bath' on the Steam website.Guess how many spokes on the bogie ?

 

http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/no-4015-knight-of-st-john/print/550389.html

 

http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/star-class-no-4014-knight-of-the-bath/print/8306809.html

Edited November 2, 2013 by gwrrob

[pete55]

........ I have a set of Castle front wheels to fit, I am not over-impressed by the profile of them either... rather wide and deep-flanged compared to some models.  Anyone know of other suppliers?

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

Alan Gibson do the correct 10 spoke bogie wheel, which is a direct swap, providing Hornby have maintained their standard axle diameter.

[robmcg]

Thanks, will check if they do web sales.

 

Just out of interest, I am aware of variations in wheel profile dimensions even within NMRA guidelines or standards, and simply looking at various models, and wonder whether there are in fact quite large variations on production models?  And with production runs, and such as Gibson wheels?

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

[pete55]

Thanks, will check if they do web sales.

 

Just out of interest, I am aware of variations in wheel profile dimensions even within NMRA guidelines or standards, and simply looking at various models, and wonder whether there are in fact quite large variations on production models?  And with production runs, and such as Gibson wheels?

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

 

Sorry, didn't think to put a link!

 

http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/

[robmcg]

Well, here is a Churchward 'Star' looking good...  makes you wonder why locomotive engineers didn't all retire around 1912  as perfection had been reached.

 

While I have messed around with a few details and colours the essential shape is to my eye very attractive and very GWR...  It will be impossible for me to do illustrations of this with anything other than efficient and mild steam exhaust, even while the prowess of the class with heavy fast trains is well-documented. I think I have a chapter in an O S Nock book praising the class.

 

Edited November 3, 2013 by robmcg

[twiggy1969]

Is the rear driving wheel correct with the filled in spoke?

[robmcg]

I doubt it.. I thought it was a trick of the light.  Try this... below.

 

Amazing how things like spokes can make or break a picture!

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

 

Edited November 3, 2013 by robmcg

[OnTheBranchline]

Right having narrowly avoided the blows passing between 81C and SK I am still a bit concerned about this loco but not cancelling my pre-orders.  I tackled SK about the disparity in pricing on various GW engines and what we get for our money and all he could say was that pricing is Hornby's prerogative - perhaps I should have replied that paying is ours?  Anyway he is absolutely convinced that they are right and we are wrong and 'Stars' had 12 spoke bogie wheels, not 10 spoke, he's said he would check  (I subsequently found out that he had been pre-wound on this issue so no wonder he was a bit prickly - oddly the new 'Hall', a railroad model, has got the correct bogie wheels!

 

As 81C has noted the tender with 'Glastonbury Abbey' needs some careful checking but it might not be right - delving is called for but it will be a shame if it adds up to yet another error.  Overall what did worry me is the attitude that there isn't anything wrong with what we're producing and if there was we'd have a warehouse full of returned models - I'm sure the chap has had a busy, and possibly rough, few weeks of shows but it was not a good advert for Hornby today to be honest.

 

You mean fisticuffs?

[Siberian Snooper]

I visited the Bodmin show yesterday and had a good look on the Kernow stand to see if they had any 4018's for sale in the hope that I could have a butchers, but there were non, so I assume any they received from Hornby have been sent out mail order.

 

SS