Hornby P2

[Hroth]

Today, ehattons.com still shows the nice version of the P2 due in "on or after 7th July", the playtime (or modifier's) version allegedly being due as soon as "on or after 28th April".

 

Do any of this site's users have sufficient hard information to give any reliable indication of whether we might really get the basic model as soon as early May - assuming the ship doesn't emulate recent events and "vanish" in the Indian Ocean of course?

Unless you actually WORK for Hornby, hard information would be pretty hard to come by!  The best we can do is speculate... 

 

Like all other retailers, Hattons are in the hands of Hornby as to when they get stock.  In my experience, Hattons are pretty good at getting information out to pre-orderers regarding changes in projected availibility, price changes and so on, and nothing has been announced up to today.  Its now just on a month before the "in stock" date for the Railroad version and unless Hornby drops a bombshell (your "Indian Ocean" event, for example) stock should be trickling out to selected retailers by the start of May.  As for "missing at sea", from my vague understanding of importation leadtimes, the models should at least be in home waters by now, and might even have have cleared customs. Hornby will then have to check that they've got what they wanted and sampled them to ensure they are up to scratch.  Allocation to retailers, depending on stock in hand and pre-order requests would follow.  No news at this point is good news!  (fingers crossed...)

 

Why not express an interest on the Hornby shop website?  Its likely they will get preferential treatment and have P2s before anyone else gets a sniff - if you ask to be notified when they are in stock, you will get an email when they get them.

[Ian Hargrave]

The phrase "sampled them to ensure they are up to scratch" has,I'm afraid ,a hollow ring to it. Recent past experience demonstrates that this is palpably what does not happen,hence the cries of "shock,horror"when the boxes have been opened by some members of this forum or when they have been tested,such as my well documented episode with R3191.....and Hattons admission that the problem was endemic.

I sincerely hope your optimism is well-founded but please don't count your chickens before they are hatched. I want a Cock of The North that works smoothly out of the box that has all its constituent parts in place plus a bag of bits that does contain a proper set of etched plates.(You wish.....) I am relishing the arrival of this model.I do not want a disappointment this time round.....please.

[AdamOrmorod]

Received an e-mail from ehattons this morning, the TTS Sound P2 now not due until Friday 8th August.

[DonnyRailMan]

Unless you actually WORK for Hornby, hard information would be pretty hard to come by!  The best we can do is speculate... 

 

Like all other retailers, Hattons are in the hands of Hornby as to when they get stock.  In my experience, Hattons are pretty good at getting information out to pre-orderers regarding changes in projected availibility, price changes and so on, and nothing has been announced up to today.  Its now just on a month before the "in stock" date for the Railroad version and unless Hornby drops a bombshell (your "Indian Ocean" event, for example) stock should be trickling out to selected retailers by the start of May.  As for "missing at sea", from my vague understanding of importation leadtimes, the models should at least be in home waters by now, and might even have have cleared customs. Hornby will then have to check that they've got what they wanted and sampled them to ensure they are up to scratch.  Allocation to retailers, depending on stock in hand and pre-order requests would follow.  No news at this point is good news!  (fingers crossed...)

 

Why not express an interest on the Hornby shop website?  Its likely they will get preferential treatment and have P2s before anyone else gets a sniff - if you ask to be notified when they are in stock, you will get an email when they get them.

 

 

 

               I dowt that even Hornby know when shipment is due.

 

                             D.R.M.   

[WD0-6-0]

Did anybody see the production example (according to the guy on the stand) on the BRM stand at Ally Pally yesterday. Not sure if it was the Railroad or full spec version. It had full black and white lining (I understood the Railroad version would just have white boiler bands) Unfortunately Hornby were not at the event to confirm one way or the other.(Read into that what you will !) I really hope it was the Railroad version. The light on the stand was not great, and I had my wrong glasses with me (Doh !) but the steam pipe running along the left of the boiler was moulded on, as was the smoke box dart. The handrails seemed to be unconvincing in silver paint, and there was a gap between the smoke box and boiler. This later point may indicate that Hornby intend to do the A4 type smoke box version later as it was obviously an add on part.

I really hope I'm wrong about the 'short cuts' Hornby seem to have taken, after all it is a RTR P2 and Hornby are to be applauded for tooling up for such a rare locomotive. I have however, cancelled my pre-order and will wait to see what the magazines say in their reviews before deciding whether to get one or not. Hopefully I'm wrong, and the Hornby 'bean counters' have not got to this one.

I believe that the first off the mould P2 has already been reviewed in the magazines and unfortunately "design clever" on this model means moulded handrails (less on the main model) moulded smokebox handles and unsprung plastic buffers. Fortunately the basic aftermarket parts like smokebox handles and buffers shouldn't be too difficult or expensive to fit, handrails won't be too bad either they'll depend mostly on the level of repainting to be done afterwards. At least we've got an RTR P2, I couldn't afford a kit and don't yet have the skills to build one so I'm glad Hornby are making one despite its imperfections.

Rhys

 

Edit correcting the unsparing buffers

Edited March 31, 2014 by WD0-6-0

[Pebbles]

This does not directly relate to the Hornby model but, in the latest issue of "The Gresley Observer" there is a 10 page article entitled "COCK O'THE North and Dr HUGO LENTZ".

[edcayton]

 unsparing plastic buffers. 

 

Yes, they are vicious b@st@rds.

 

Ed

[gr.king]

Yes, they are vicious b@st@rds.

 

Ed

 

I didn't spot that typo, most amusing as it is, probably because I only skim read the post once I realised that it was simply a re-hash of matters covered thoroughly in this thread some time ago.....

 

As of today, the best information I can get from within Hornby suggests that Hattons are wrong about the RR P2 and that none will clear customs until June.

[WD0-6-0]

Yes, they are vicious b@st@rds.

 

Ed

Thanks Ed, Ill make sure to correct what auto correct does in the future.

 

I didn't spot that typo, most amusing as it is, probably because I only skim read the post once I realised that it was simply a re-hash of matters covered thoroughly in this thread some time ago.....

Just bringing GNR Dave up to speed as to me his post looked like he hadn't read what was covered some time ago. I never meant to cause offence by it.

 

Rhys

Edited March 31, 2014 by WD0-6-0

[gr.king]

This does not directly relate to the Hornby model but, in the latest issue of "The Gresley Observer" there is a 10 page article entitled "COCK O'THE North and Dr HUGO LENTZ".

 

I believe somebody showed me an unusual piece of photoshopping in there too.

[gr.king]

I've just read a suggestion that Hattons cannot now have the amount of stock they wanted and have started back-pedalling on more lately placed P2 orders. Let's all hope we got our orders in early enough to be at the head of the queue rather than the tail......

[Ian Hargrave]

I've just read a suggestion that Hattons cannot now have the amount of stock they wanted and have started back-pedalling on more lately placed P2 orders. Let's all hope we got our orders in early enough to be at the head of the queue rather than the tail......

I think we've been here before,haven't we? An old,familiar ring to the story...again and again.Hard to say which is responsible for the confusion,Hornby or Hattons taking a gamble on the actual numbers they'll receive.

[brushman47544]

I think we've been here before,haven't we? An old,familiar ring to the story...again and again.Hard to say which is responsible for the confusion,Hornby or Hattons taking a gamble on the actual numbers they'll receive.

 

We have, but I'm not sure it's fair to blame Hattons. Unless they have been told by Hornby they can only have x number of P2s, I don't think it unreasonable for any retailer to take pre-orders up to the number of models Hornby's ordering system has allowed them to order. Would you order, say 100 models from a manufacturer but only accept pre-orders for 50 in case you didn't get them all? Not a good business model because by the time you received the full 100, the orders may well have gone elsewhere.

[Ian Hargrave]

Which is no consolation whatsoever to the punter who has saved his hard-earned pennies ,ordered in good faith and come away with broken promises.Business model notwithstanding,it is far better to get the model you have actually ordered,rather than be treated with cynical disregard

I think we are far too tolerant of this kind of nonsense....we are the consumers when all is said and done and not business analysts.

[Wicor Models]

We have, but I'm not sure it's fair to blame Hattons. Unless they have been told by Hornby they can only have x number of P2s, I don't think it unreasonable for any retailer to take pre-orders up to the number of models Hornby's ordering system has allowed them to order. Would you order, say 100 models from a manufacturer but only accept pre-orders for 50 in case you didn't get them all? Not a good business model because by the time you received the full 100, the orders may well have gone elsewhere.

It might not be a good business model but it's the way we work, as do a lot of other retailers.  If we order 50 of an item we take orders up to 35-40 depending on the likely popularity of that item which gives us some leeway should a very popular item be allocated.

 

Back to the topic as far as I can see the first one (R3207 - detailed model) is not due into Margate until early July and as Hornby won't be allocating anything until they arrive I don't see how Hattons can claim to have been cut back on their order at this early stage.

 

Dave

[Paul Cram]

Which is no consolation whatsoever to the punter who has saved his hard-earned pennies ,ordered in good faith and come away with broken promises.Business model notwithstanding,it is far better to get the model you have actually ordered,rather than be treated with cynical disregard

I think we are far too tolerant of this kind of nonsense....we are the consumers when all is said and done and not business analysts.

How will you become intolerant given that Hornby are the only manufacturers and supply will be limited?

[Ian Hargrave]

How will you become intolerant given that Hornby are the only manufacturers and supply will be limited?[/quote

If you have been following this thread,you will have noted that my comments are NOT specifically relevant only to this particular release but more generally to retailers ....not only Hattons....who have been taking orders for new Hornby items which they do not fulfil,either because they over subscribe on their known allocation or because Hornby are short on delivery for reasons best known to themselves.There have been many postings on this forum from members who have had their orders,given in good faith,cancelled because the retailer is unable to supply.This has been the situation for well over a year,starting with the release of the 2-BIL..In my own case,Hattons cancelled my order abruptly and following that a second retailer took the order and then after further enquiry on my part admitted that he 'didn't know' if he would be able to fulfil it. Hence I "went elsewhere".

Asking the question "how will I become intolerant ?" Is a bit like asking if I look both ways before I cross the road. Yes,you bet I do.Furthermore that is my choice and no one else's.

[Hroth]

GR King said, "I've just read a suggestion"...

 

Given the current supply situation, its to be expected that in the case of a shortfall its going to be "first come, first served".  Hattons stopped taking pre-orders for R3207 more than a month ago and its possible that they've been informed that by time it gets around to the beginning of July, that their new allocation will not be enough to service all their pre-orders. At least there's three months between now and the estimated delivery date - if there IS to be a culling of pre-orders for R3207, then early notification would be better than late or none!   We don't know what percentage of their original allocation they set aside for pre-orders so there's no point in criticising them when Hornby cuts the ground from under their feet! 

 

As an aside, the Railroad version, R3171, is still listed by Hattons for pre-order and delivery after the end of THIS month.  I suppose Hornby can still throw a spanner in the works in the next three weeks, but we'll just have to wait and see!

[Paul Cram]

How will you become intolerant given that Hornby are the only manufacturers and supply will be limited?[/quote

If you have been following this thread,you will have noted that my comments are NOT specifically relevant only to this particular release but more generally to retailers ....not only Hattons....who have been taking orders for new Hornby items which they do not fulfil,either because they over subscribe on their known allocation or because Hornby are short on delivery for reasons best known to themselves.There have been many postings on this forum from members who have had their orders,given in good faith,cancelled because the retailer is unable to supply.This has been the situation for well over a year,starting with the release of the 2-BIL..In my own case,Hattons cancelled my order abruptly and following that a second retailer took the order and then after further enquiry on my part admitted that he 'didn't know' if he would be able to fulfil it. Hence I "went elsewhere".

Asking the question "how will I become intolerant ?" Is a bit like asking if I look both ways before I cross the road. Yes,you bet I do.Furthermore that is my choice and no one else's.

That doesn't answer the question so do I presume you will not be buying any more Hornby models as it is not just the P2 for which there is no RTR alternative?

[Ian Hargrave]

That doesn't answer the question so do I presume you will not be buying any more Hornby models as it is not just the P2 for which there is no RTR .

 

It might be helpful if you actually read the posting.....and it is not up to you to pose questions or draw irrational conclusions...now,let's drop the matter.

[Colin_McLeod]

Which is no consolation whatsoever to the punter who has saved his hard-earned pennies ,ordered in good faith and come away with broken promises.Business model notwithstanding,it is far better to get the model you have actually ordered,rather than be treated with cynical disregard

I think we are far too tolerant of this kind of nonsense....we are the consumers when all is said and done and not business analysts.

Just before we drop the matter;

 

I disagreed because the above post implies that Hattons are treating customers with cynical disregard. I don't think they are. They took orders, presumably based on what Hornby said they could, and now that Hornby seem to be letting hattons down, Hattons have advised theier customers in good time to try to source a P2 elsewhere. 

[Ian Hargrave]

Just before we drop the matter;

 

I disagreed because the above post implies that Hattons are treating customers with cynical disregard. I don't think they are. They took orders, presumably based on what Hornby said they could, and now that Hornby seem to be letting hattons down, Hattons have advised theier customers in good time to try to source a P2 elsewhere.

 

The implication is entirely yours.

[Colin_McLeod]

Ian

 

The implication that I take from a statement is a function of the words used in that statement. 

 

Can you tell me if my implication was correct, or if not, can you clarify what you did mean?

 

Thanks

Colin

[The Stationmaster]

Just before we drop the matter;

 

I disagreed because the above post implies that Hattons are treating customers with cynical disregard. I don't think they are. They took orders, presumably based on what Hornby said they could, and now that Hornby seem to be letting hattons down, Hattons have advised theier customers in good time to try to source a P2 elsewhere. 

Somehow I don't think that's how the system works.  As I understand things the retailers take their pre-orders and use them - plus whatever they might want for stock/speculative sales - to arrive at the total order which they place with Hornby.  It does not thus far seem to have been Hornby's practice to 'allocate', i.e. ration, what they actually send to retailers until they despatch the stuff.  Such allocation might be the consequence of the number produced being unable to meet the number ordered either because Hornby played safe on what they order from the factory or the factory fell short of what it was supposed to deliver.

 

It all comes back to my point - made some time ago - about trust in thh model railway industry.  In this case that means trusting the retailer to order sufficient to meet anticipated demand and definitely firm pre-order demand and trusting the manufacturer to meet the quantities ordered by retailers as well as ensuring they also get that number produced (ideally plus a percentage allowance for returns of damaged or incomplete models.

 

However very clearly that is not what seems to happen in practice - for example one very well known large scale retailer had not actually placed their order for 2 BILs with Hornby by the time orders officially had to be in, net result (some of?) those who had ordered promptly had an 'allocation' and didn't receive their full order.  Similarly some retailers have received only 'allocations' on other orders notwithstanding having placed the order over a year previously.  In the case of the first run of 2 BILs the number was in any case limited and they were in this country before Hornby started to officially accept orders for them - in simple terms they (Hornby) oversold and continued to take orders after their entire stock had been spoken for.

 

What we really need is that trust I had hoped to start see appearing - I'm still hoping.

[micklner]

This is a copy of the entry on LNER Forum

 

 

Quote

 

I actually ordered COTN on 17 Dec 2012, along with the J11 which was delivered around 17 Feb 2014.

Hatton’s system then re-dated my order for COTN to that date in Feb 2014!!

They have admitted this is an error in their system, but I am awaiting confirmation that they will honour my original order date and therefore my place in the queue!

 

 

 

 

So to end all the speculation it appears to be a simple computer error at Hattons. The customer is still trying to confirm if he will get a C of the N in due course .Fingers crossed