Coldgunner Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Mine arrived safely today, however need to create a JMRI profile before I can play with my Cock ('o' the north)! (couldn't help it, sorry!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD0-6-0 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Still waiting for mine but I don't mind too much now because I know it's just days away and I'm too excited to be annoyed. Bit concerned about the motor issue however as I mentioned I have a 5 pole spare if mine plays up. Rhys 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Ok a couple of first impressions I guess... 1. Lined up with A1/3/4's, she is distinctly longer, one of the longest I own. 2. Bit awkward to carry. Because its the TTS version, the tender and loco are permanently coupled, with the four wires hanging underneath. I prefer this arrangement to the alternative though. 3. Sound is LOUD, drowns out my Loksound A4 4. Sound is not bad considering it costs little more than a sapphire chip 5. No painted cab detail 6. Can't make my mind up whether the nameplates are plastic or etched. Either way they are not going on. I'll get some from Fox if need be. 7. Lots of detail parts to fit, though some will be left out due to my tight radii corners. 8. Good livery application, I like it a lot! Edited October 7, 2014 by Coldgunner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Took out the chip and fitted a blanking plate, my P2 in this mode starts suddenly at about half power with a classic controller. Will allow slow running once underway, studied this model closely, there is definitely a tight spot somewhere on the chassis, will strip down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Ok a couple of first impressions I guess... 1. Lined up with A1/3/4's, she is distinctly longer, one of the longest I own. 2. Bit awkward to carry. Because its the TTS version, the tender and loco are permanently coupled, with the four wires hanging underneath. I prefer this arrangement to the alternative though. 3. Sound is LOUD, drowns out my Loksound A4 4. Sound is not bad considering it costs little more than a sapphire chip 5. No painted cab detail 6. Can't make my mind up whether the nameplates are plastic or etched. Either way they are not going on. I'll get some from Fox if need be. 7. Lots of detail parts to fit, though some will be left out due to my tight radii corners. 8. Good livery application, I like it a lot! So you are having difficulty getting your "Cock" round bends....................not surprising its awkward to carry then...??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Happens to the best of us... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Tight spot gone, motor still sticks before starting in DC operation. Conclusion, the P2 with its 4 axles is the limit of what this motor will cope with. Will run for several hours to see if it improves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 They'll be breeding next.... 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Wow! They are looking seriously good and impressive! Bravo! With the Walschaert's Valve gear and finishing they will be stunning. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 They'll be breeding next.... Somebody had better produce a Mons Meg to that purpose, then ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Wow! They are looking seriously good and impressive! Bravo! With the Walschaert's Valve gear and finishing they will be stunning... What we have to do is persuade Hornby that when they go for the P2 in final form, that a BR brunswick green livery is offered. Complete fiction it may be, but I don't imagine it would fail to sell, and they have propagated far worse livery inaccuracies (impossibilities) in the past, whereas this is a 'should have happened'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 What we have to do is persuade Hornby that when they go for the P2 in final form, that a BR brunswick green livery is offered. Complete fiction it may be, but I don't imagine it would fail to sell, and they have propagated far worse livery inaccuracies (impossibilities) in the past, whereas this is a 'should have happened'. It almost certainly will happen when Prince Of Wales is completed. No need for Hornby to invent liveries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 8, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2014 Do not people think that Hornby have weighed up all possible variants and factored that into the production of this loco? I would have thought an A4 fronted version was a dead cert, along with a version (or two) of the new build. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 What we have to do is persuade Hornby that when they go for the P2 in final form, that a BR brunswick green livery is offered. Complete fiction it may be, but I don't imagine it would fail to sell, and they have propagated far worse livery inaccuracies (impossibilities) in the past, whereas this is a 'should have happened'. It almost certainly will happen when Prince Of Wales is completed. No need for Hornby to invent liveries. BR Express Blue... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 A model version of 2007 is on the cards and as far as I'm aware has been confirmed by the P2 crowd, no timescale as yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) As regards the real thing, the original P2 was a classic design while the wedge front looked to me like a half baked add-on. If the class was a headache to maintain, the A4 front merely added to the firemen's lot by having to first wind open the lid before climbing into the hot confined space to open the smokebox door and throw out the ash. If the engines were any good, the LNER management would surely have instructed that the 2-8-2's be drafted to less curved mainlines in England. History shows that even during wartime conditions, Thompson got permission to rebuild them into Pacifics. The reality is the rebuilds gave 18-20 years service, which is somewhat more than some Pacifics from Peppercorn, the LMS and the SR. Edited October 8, 2014 by coachmann 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 That's more like it Larry. Back on form with a piece of Devil's advocacy! Now my turn. BR livery on the real Prince of Wales? I am hopeful that official response to that idea will be of the nature of "over my dead body". There's far too much miserable Brunswick green and dowdy black around on steam locos already, whether in preservation or in model form. The oh-so-predictable ranks of 50s/60s clone "layouts" that dominate model railway shows these days (so many of them merely scenic train sets with almost everything mass-produced rather than hand made) could easily bore me to death. I'd have gone to the GC this Autumn to see Morayshire, but NOT in BR black. Preserved locos deserve to be shown as-built, or as nearly so as possible in most cases, and there's a desperate need for more modelling of the famous company days on the railways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted October 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I agree that the original P2 was a classic design and is far more attractive than the Bugatti-nosed versions. However, I do still like the look of the later styling which combines sleekness and power. I take your point though Larry, it doesn't work as well as the complete streamlined package of the A4s. I suspect the P2s were not reallocated further south simply because the existing pacifics were already doing a good job and Gresley had come up with a superior design in the A4 in terms of their suitability for high speed running and more than adequate haulage ability. It seems to me that the P2s could have been developed into effective east coast mainline locomotives, after ironing out the pony truck problems perhaps, but they were simply superseded by something that was a better fit to the requirements. There is evidence that further 8-coupled designs were considered but, presumably, not deemed to be the best fit for the intended purpose. My feeling is that, as CME, Thompson was itching to design a front line pacific and, without the budget for a completely new build, was searching around for something to rebuild which would be palatable to the board. He then hit upon the P2s (based on the A3 boiler after all). I don't think Thompson's design is attractive but there are plenty of people who do. It looks fine but the cyclinder placing seems odd to me. There is evidence that Thompson's desire to simplify some aspects and innovate in others could bear fruit in times of tight budgets and lower maintenance schedules (e.g. his B1, rocking grates on pacifics) and you're right they did last albeit not as long as other LNER pacifics. One wonders though whether he was looking in the right area? Cook's focus in BR days on greater precision in the workshops seems to have been very effective in ironing out problems on all of the pacifics. Edited October 8, 2014 by teaky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted October 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2014 That's more like it Larry. Back on form with a piece of Devil's advocacy! Now my turn. BR livery on the real Prince of Wales? I am hopeful that official response to that idea will be of the nature of "over my dead body". There's far too much miserable Brunswick green and dowdy black around on steam locos already, whether in preservation or in model form. The oh-so-predictable ranks of 50s/60s clone "layouts" that dominate model railway shows these days (so many of them merely scenic train sets with almost everything mass-produced rather than hand made) could easily bore me to death. I'd have gone to the GC this Autumn to see Morayshire, but NOT in BR black. Preserved locos deserve to be shown as-built, or as nearly so as possible in most cases, and there's a desperate need for more modelling of the famous company days on the railways. Mods - Can we have a "light the blue touch paper and stand back" emoticon please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Time for a real question about the Hornby P2 model. My recollection of the historical notes I've read is that on 2001 the handrail on the LEFT SIDE of the firebox was pitched higher than usual merely to clear the reverse shaft for the Lentz valve gear. It appears to me that Hornby's model also has the rail on the right side at the same height. Now is that correct modelling? A well known photo of 2001 at the Plant with staff proudly present seems to show the right side handrail level with the lower edge of the cab side windows, the left one in the official broadside appears to be above that line. If they do differ it is only be about 3" and I could be misinterpreting perspective in the two images.... Edited October 8, 2014 by gr.king Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
will5210 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Time for a real question about the Hornby P2 model. My recollection of the historical notes I've read is that on 2001 the handrail on the LEFT SIDE of the firebox was pitched higher than usual merely to clear the reverse shaft for the Lentz valve gear. It appears to me that Hornby's model also has the rail on the right side at the same height. Now is that correct modelling? A well known photo of 2001 at the Plant with staff proudly present seems to show the right side handrail level with the lower edge of the cab side windows, the left one in the official broadside appears to be above that line. If they do differ it is only be about 3" and I could be misinterpreting perspective in the two images.... I've just checked my Gresley Observer P2 book & you're interpretation of the photos looks correct to me. It also looks to me like 2001 kept its odd handrails after streamlining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 As regards the real thing, the original P2 was a classic design while the wedge front looked to me like a half baked add-on. If the class was a headache to maintain, the A4 front merely added to the firemen's lot by having to first wind open the lid before climbing into the hot confined space to open the smokebox door and throw out the ash... There is a documented reason for the streamlining: having proved very effective at exhaust clearance on the A4 design, it was deployed on the P2 to cure the unacceptable degree to which the original design obscured crew look out. The LNER was chronically short of cash, and would not have spent the money on the more expensive A4 streamlining unless it really needed to. The resulting appearance, well that's a matter of taste. I am of the 'handsome is as handsome does' school, so it works for me... If the engines were any good, the LNER management would surely have instructed that the 2-8-2's be drafted to less curved mainlines in England... In truth they were 'too much of a good thing'. Still experimental and in need of further development; and put on the back burner many believe once OVS Bulleid had taken up his post down South. What did the LNER do in response to the wartime traffic demand for more fast heavy haulers? Build V2s. With the same grate area as the A3 and A4, on a 60mph limit railway they offered the same capability at lower cost. Far easier operationally to plan all fast services on the basis of a group of locos of functionally similar performance when restricted to 60mph max. Interesting to note in this context the post war opinion of an inspector that the 50sq ft grate was rarely able to be fully exploited in normal traffic conditions on the East Coast, and that for anything under 600 ton express loads the 41 sq ft grate of the A3, A4 and V2 offered sufficient power output to meet schedule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Those interested in shades of green might be curious about these hints with 'Eleventh Earl of Mar'. Will soon be getting round to sorting it all out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 There is a documented reason for the streamlining: having proved very effective at exhaust clearance on the A4 design, it was deployed on the P2 to cure the unacceptable degree to which the original design obscured crew look out. The LNER was chronically short of cash, and would not have spent the money on the more expensive A4 streamlining unless it really needed to. The resulting appearance, well that's a matter of taste. I am of the 'handsome is as handsome does' school, so it works for me... The visibility problems were an issue with 2002, which did of course have Walschearts gear and double kylchap, hence a soft drifting exhaust. Rotary cam locos have a much sharper exhaust and 2001 was not affected to the same degree. Basically 2002-2006 were dolled up to look like fake A4's so it made sense to alter 2001 to the same spec. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Just double checking. Are the P2s with sound all delivered to the country or is another batch of them due to arrive in a week or two? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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