Hornby P2

[Dominion]

GK, risking the answer "enuff" how much we're you thinking the flywheel may need to be heated ?

[w4rrn]

I dropped off my TTS P2 tonight with Steve at Grimeytimes for some weathering treatment. 

I mentioned to him about the sudden 'jump into life' syndrome of the three pole motor. We tried it on his layout and it was a bit jerky and needed a slight nudge at the first move, but the wheels then soon started to turn.

It ran very smoothly too and did some good slow starts. I was pretty surprised at the slow starts and smooth running it was capable of on Steve's DCC layout as I had tested the loco on a length of track back at home and it jerked into life, but that was with an old analogue controller.

I'll see if I can do a video of it when I collect it, with it new Fox nameplates and muck n grime :-)

The TTS sounded good to.

Edited October 14, 2014 by w4rrn

[The Black Hat]

Hello all,

 

Have tested the two TTS P2s that I had managed to get hold of having checked a local store online and they had them in stock.

 

I had the same issue with the P2, as I did with the Duke of Gloucester, being that it would not chuff when running in reverse. I set the speed steps to 128 and it resolved itself again. Just a note in case others have the same trouble.

 

Meanwhile one has been tested briefly and already assigned for its transformation. ..."The Eleventh Earl of Mar, wont be going very far. You promised, You promised, you promised!! Daddy..."

Edited October 14, 2014 by The Black Hat

[mikesndbs]

I dropped off my TTS P2 tonight with Steve at Grimeytimes for some weathering treatment. 

I mentioned to him about the sudden 'jump into life' syndrome of the three pole motor. We tried it on his layout and it was a bit jerky and needed a slight nudge at the first move, but the wheels then soon started to turn.

It ran very smoothly too and did some good slow starts. I was pretty surprised at the slow starts and smooth running it was capable of on Steve's DCC layout as I had tested the loco on a length of track back at home and it jerked into life, but that was with an old analogue controller.

I'll see if I can do a video of it when I collect it, with it new Fox nameplates and muck n grime :-)

The TTS sounded good to.

 

I think this is the issue, DCC and feedback control hide the terrible motor performance, I was able to get nice performance with feedback. However for those of us who can't or don't want to go DCC the loco needs to run nice, or it might be hiding a raft of problems later????

[mikesndbs]

GK, risking the answer "enuff" how much we're you thinking the flywheel may need to be heated ?

 

I tried tonight, got it very hot using a flame and it would not budge at all!

Maybe needs a puller of some kind, but with this much force needed I am concerned about fitting it to the new motor??

[gr.king]

Hmmmm, that's annoying. Well somebody fitted it in the first place, so it must be possible to take it off again.

[DCB]

How would one manage to get the flywheel a whole millimetre off-centre when the hole is pre-drilled dead-on? A mil is quite a lot compared to the size of the parts.

 

Perhaps you could push the flywheel on squarely using a vice. Set the motor and flywheel up between the jaws with just enough light contact to hold them in place, use a square and the mark one eyeball to check that the armature shaft is perpendicular to the jaws of the vice in both the horizontal and vertical planes, then gently nip up the vice until the flywheel has gone on far enough to remain stable on the shaft. Obviously it doesn't want to go on so far that it tightens up against the motor body or interferes with re-fitting of the motor into its designated space in the chassis.

If the flywheel has a relatively narrow "seating" on the shaft or overhangs the shaft end it is really easy to get a flywheel on slightly out of line, and it is dead easy to bore the centre hole eccentrically 0.5 mm at the centre equals 1 mm at the rim, I had one on slightly eccentrically on a K's 57XX and it literally vibrated the loco to bits.  As regards removing a flywheel they can always be removed, it is just whether they and the motor remain re usable, blow lamp is one solution, mount the motor vertically in a vice with the flywheel on top to keep the heat away from the motor as far as possible, but I know if I tried it the success rate would be under 25%

[Martin_R]

Called into my local model shop this morning to pick up some glue ordered last week and guess what I found, only a full fat R3207 P2 sitting on the counter! It had been returned 20mins earlier by a customer as a 'non runner' so I asked about it. The loco was tried on the shop test track using a basic Hornby controller and it just sat there but when you gave it a nudge it it took off like a scolded cat then stopped dead! The chap who brought it in had had a refund so I asked if I could buy it as seen. After a bit of hard negotiation I left with my bottle of glue and a P2 for under £100!

 

I took it apart and found the motor fixings loose!?! I tried to tighten it but the motor didn't seem to want to seat properly - similar to the replacement King motor mentioned earlier in the tread. Rather than modify the motor I used a small burr in a mini drill and removed small amounts of material from the chassis until the motor fitted - very little needed to be removed. After cleaning everything I have rebuilt the chassis and and applied a little lubricant to the worm and gear train and tested it. It now runs very smoothly even at low speed but compared with say a Britannia or West Country it is not as easy to do a smooth slow start. I think with some running in it may improve a bit but I have measured the motor so may investigate a new 'non Hornby' motor.

 

 

[bigwordsmith]

I Just got mine out of the box and found it is very reluctant to start without a thump of power and then it goes like a scalded cat - I'll give it a proper running in on the rolling road in the not too distant, but it;s a bit worrying that Hornby is having so many problems with a new flagship model.

 

Bring back Simon Kohler!

[micklner]

Mine is totally normal , run in for a hour on a rolling road . Starts without any issues , runs quietly too using a DC Gaugemaster control.

[45661 Vernon]

I purchased the railroad version on Saturday & mine too ran perfectly well from the off with a standard gaugemaster dc controller.

[gr.king]

[JSpencer]

Hmmmm, that's annoying. Well somebody fitted it in the first place, so it must be possible to take it off again.

 

When these are fitted, I assume the factory has a well set up jig system with press.

 

They *might* pre heat the flywheel as well, though I doubt it as we are talking about brass onto a thin steel shaft and the process would be slowed down while the waited for the brass flywheel to cool down.  

 

If they do pre-heat it, then remember the motor shaft will be cold while the flywheel will be hot. Once fitted, it would be very hard to heat just the flywheel and not the shaft.

 

To remove this, the best bet is puller that will touch only the two parts to be seperated. Option 2 is to hold the flywheel in a vice (motor is free), then tap the thing out with a hammer and hole punch. Note, it should drop out with a small whack. If it does not then there is no point in proceeding further as you write the thing off.

 

Better than is to simply buy a flywheel from Branchlines.

[mikesndbs]

When these are fitted, I assume the factory has a well set up jig system with press.

 

They *might* pre heat the flywheel as well, though I doubt it as we are talking about brass onto a thin steel shaft and the process would be slowed down while the waited for the brass flywheel to cool down.  

 

If they do pre-heat it, then remember the motor shaft will be cold while the flywheel will be hot. Once fitted, it would be very hard to heat just the flywheel and not the shaft.

 

To remove this, the best bet is puller that will touch only the two parts to be seperated. Option 2 is to hold the flywheel in a vice (motor is free), then tap the thing out with a hammer and hole punch. Note, it should drop out with a small whack. If it does not then there is no point in proceeding further as you write the thing off.

 

Better than is to simply buy a flywheel from Branchlines.

 

 

Oh, I'd prefer to get a new flywheel, which one would be right?

[JSpencer]

Oh, I'd prefer to get a new flywheel, which one would be right?

 

I have no idea how much space you have left after fitting a 5-pole. Assuming it is the same, then a same size or smaller flywheel will be required. Go for one that is solid for the size concerned.

 

Talk with Branchlines (or any other flywheel seller) to see if they will fit the Hornby motor shaft (normally they are designed for motors Branchlines sell which may not be).

 

When building kits, I only add flywheels if there is space after the motor. If space is tight, it is better to go for a bigger motor rather than try for motor + flywheel.

[Guest spet0114]

Hattons have just emailed to say my R3207 has been dispatched. It looks like their third batch has come in....... :-)

 

(Now I can finally find out what all the fuss is about!)

 

Cheers
Adrian

[Grasslands]

My P2 arrived a few weeks ago, but I have not been at home to test run it.

 

The quality of the finish and the detail is quite impressive (the plastic lubricator/valve gear looks a bit silly).

 

Running quality, however is a backward step in my opinion. Noisy and jerky and obviously a cheap 3 pole motor. I will review this topic and see how people are approaching the replacement of the valve gear and motor. Thanks all that have contributed in this regard so far, it makes life for the rest of us so much easier.

[Ian Hargrave]

My P2 arrived a few weeks ago, but I have not been at home to test run it.

 

The quality of the finish and the detail is quite impressive (the plastic lubricator/valve gear looks a bit silly).

 

Running quality, however is a backward step in my opinion. Noisy and jerky and obviously a cheap 3 pole motor. I will review this topic and see how people are approaching the replacement of the valve gear and motor. Thanks all that have contributed in this regard so far, it makes life for the rest of us so much easier.

But variable,that's the annoying thing.Mine runs sweetly (after initial pick up blip) as do others on this forum.Is it the motor,or is it something else ?. Has anyone contacted Fortress Margate re : the problem ?

[Grasslands]

But variable,that's the annoying thing.Mine runs sweetly (after initial pick up blip) as do others on this forum.Is it the motor,or is it something else ?. Has anyone contacted Fortress Margate re : the problem ?

Pick-up blip too, hmmmm... I best read up on that aswell. The front pony truck seemed to be shorting mine out, but I managed to fix that (I think). No clue why it was shorting though.

[Mike Riley]

For people who want to fit a 5 pole motor and flywheel I suggest a Mashima.  The Hornby motor shaft is probably 2mm so a 1626 will do the job.  For a flywheel try Mainly Trains(Dave hasn't shut up shop yet)  - 14mm 2mm bore.  I recently did this with a Star though it still doesn't run to my satisfaction at low speeds.  One reason may be the high gearing - about 20:1 - while for my own chassis I use something more like 40:1.  But then I'm not running at high speed on a main line layout.

 

Mike

[gr.king]

 (the plastic lubricator/valve gear looks a bit silly).

 

 I will review this topic and see how people are approaching the replacement of the valve gear and motor.

 

!?!?!?

 

Is anybody seriously considering scratch building two sets of Lentz gearboxes and propshafts? I know of no source of a kit of metal parts and I certainly won't be trying to build a metal version of the gear. It would be very tricky to make the details as good as the moulded plastic ones. Painting the parts that should be bare metal to look as if they are bare metal might be more realistically viable for most modellers.

 

Somebody even complained that the valve gear is non-working. Okay, let's see those who are not satisfied building the necessary reliable and durable ultra-miniature bevel gearboxes then!

[Simon G]

Two members brought their new P2s to our Club Rooms tonight, one Railroad, one fully detailed.  The Railroad one was initially a non-runner, but after a little trying it set off and the motor ran very nicely.  However, the front driving wheel kept derailing, so it may require some checking of the back to backs.  On the other P2, we were initially unable to connect the tender to the loco as a screw was missing - found on the floor after a quick search, so it must have been very loose to start with.  With tender connected, the loco ran very nicely, but on this one the tender kept derailing and 'bouncing' over points and crossovers.

 

Overall the considered view was that Hornby quality control must be pretty poor just now!

[Grasslands]

!?!?!?

 

Is anybody seriously considering scratch building two sets of Lentz gearboxes and propshafts? I know of no source of a kit of metal parts and I certainly won't be trying to build a metal version of the gear. It would be very tricky to make the details as good as the moulded plastic ones. Painting the parts that should be bare metal to look as if they are bare metal might be more realistically viable for most modellers.

 

Somebody even complained that the valve gear is non-working. Okay, let's see those who are not satisfied building the necessary reliable and durable ultra-miniature bevel gearboxes then!

A bit patronising this post, gr.king. Especially when you have clearly done something to the valve gear on the two models in post #2015. Or am I incorrect?

[RosiesBoss]

Hello everyone,

 

I bought a "Railroad" 2001 through Hattons. It arrived in Oz on 2/9/14, having been posted from the UK on 27/8/14. It ran perfectly through all speed ranges, straight from the box. It is powerful and silent when running at all speeds, easily hauling an 8-coach set of Hornby and BSL teaks or my 8-coach lighted Pullman set. I bought the model to act as a spare for my live-steam 4472 and 2509 when exhibited on my club's layout.

 

I have taken time to add extra white and red lining, where appropriate, as well as picking out the cab details and fitting a crew. Here she is on "Carmarthen Junction", passing 4472 on shed:

 

All locos will be running from time to time at our next show:

 

Saturday 9^th Nov 2014:          Exhibition                    9am to 5pm

 

Sunday   10^th Nov 2014:        Church Service           9.30am – 11am

                                           Morning Tea:              11am

                                           Exhibition                  12noon – 4pm

St Lukes Anglican Church

155-157 Galston Road

Hornsby Heights, NSW, Australia

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[gr.king]

A bit patronising this post, gr.king. Especially when you have clearly done something to the valve gear on the two models in post #2015. Or am I incorrect?

Are we at cross purposes here then? I took it that you thought the moulded version of the Lentz gear was an unsatisfactory representation of the only possible form of valve gear for Hornby's modelled version of Cock o' the North. My replacements of the valve gear with Walschaerts in lieu of Lentz are only applicable if the loco is converted to a different class member, or to the streamlined rebuild of Cock o' the North. If I misunderstood your meaning then I apologise, but if you want to keep the loco as the original version of 2001 then my remarks are correctly applicable.

Edited October 16, 2014 by gr.king