gr.king Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Cab revisions for Lord President will certainly follow, possibly quite shortly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Update: Got the original motor on test off load, I find it starts to turn at 4 volts, however once running it dips in speed a fair bit. Has anyone else tested this? even the Smokey Joe motors I have don't do this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Nice work, Graeme! @Mikesndbs Strange you had to use your file. Mine was a direct fit, OK maybe a bit tight. At least it now runs OK! Leen. Hi Leen Yes, had to skim a fair bit off the front otherwise I could not get it to fit in the cradle. Video underway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Update: Got the original motor on test off load, I find it starts to turn at 4 volts, however once running it dips in speed a fair bit. Has anyone else tested this? even the Smokey Joe motors I have don't do this? Is that with the flywheel fitted? Smokey Joe won't have that. My P2 in DC mode (chip removed, blanking plate fitted to run it in) will not start to move until 6 volts. A skew wound five pole on my Hornby A1 will start moving 0.6 volts for comparison. At slow speeds, the chips emf, struggles to keep her steady. I will post a video later showing her running on small DCC test layout. If they use the cheapy motor in the Crosti 9F, I think I will give it a miss! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 As the crosti is the same chassis, a current 9F motor should work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD0-6-0 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I thought they were developing a whole new chassis for the Crosti, different to the current one. Rhys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Hi all Here is my video showing the new motor in place and the results, along with experiments etc Just as a comment, where as before if I used my feedback controller I could get smooth operation from the original motor, with this new one it hates feedback and seems to run slowly! Edited October 13, 2014 by mikesndbs 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hi all Here is my video showing the new motor in place and the results, along with experiments etc Just as a comment, where as before if I used my feedback controller I could get smooth operation from the original motor, with this new one it hates feedback and seems to run slowly! This is interesting. Some motors,I have been told,can be degraded by feedback controllers,notably coreless motors ,e.g.Faulhaber. Is this currently the perceived wisdom ....or not ? I'm assuming yours is not such. More info.on this from other forum members might be very useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 This is interesting. Some motors,I have been told,can be degraded by feedback controllers,notably coreless motors ,e.g.Faulhaber. Is this currently the perceived wisdom ....or not ? I'm assuming yours is not such. More info.on this from other forum members might be very useful. Hi, would never use anything other than a very good smooth DC on coreless motors! I only got my feedback controller out to see if it would improve the original motor, it did but with the expected noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 LOL, just improved the performance even more by oiling the bearings on the new motor! daft sod, hurrying last night as had to get to bed 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 As you've discarded the original motor in favour of the 5-pole replacement, have you considered heating the flywheel on the old motor to expand it off the armature shaft and then pushing it onto the stub of armature shaft that projects from the rear of the 5 pole motor before it cools down again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike70 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I've just been looking at Service Sheet 260C for the King Class loco. The King doesn't have a flywheel fitted to the X9108 motor. So why does the P2 need one? Sorry if it is a daft question. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Here is my P2 running on my experimental end 2 end DCC layout this weekend at Crulai show: P2 is running last 80 seconds from the end. Sorry about poor video quality. I am not that impressed with the P2 unfortunately. Note the tender vibrating in tow as it judders along at slow speed. All movements automated using Hornby,s railmaster and elink system ( a really dreadful system). Edited October 13, 2014 by JSpencer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3737 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 @Mikesndbs Nice video, Mike. I haven't tested the old motor yet, and I have given the P2 a DCC decoder with stay alive, so I'm not too much worried about the missing flywheel. @Graeme I have done the same replacement as Mike in his video. Will you be at Warley again? Leen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I've just been looking at Service Sheet 260C for the King Class loco. The King doesn't have a flywheel fitted to the X9108 motor. So why does the P2 need one? Sorry if it is a daft question. Mike. Not essential perhaps, but desirable for significant added momentum to ensure smooth running notwithstanding lack of pick-ups on tender wheels and trucks, and achieved without recourse to large capacitors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 @Graeme I have done the same replacement as Mike in his video. Will you be at Warley again? Leen. I'm planning to be there on the Saturday, spending some of the day with mini-Grantham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Now got my CoN etched nameplates (modelmaster), going to try using matt vanish to fix them, as suggested (sorry can't remember who by) earlier in this thread. Shame about reported motor problems, my railroad one just keeps on going, slow runner, very smooth, had it running each time I've spent any time in loft and it must have run 17 hrs or so in total, (ok, that's not a lot of it's service life but nothing's fallen off yet). That's on dc. Nice video, J.spencer, that C class sounds good. What chip is that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) At slow speeds, the chips emf, struggles to keep her steady. That could be dependent on the quality of decoder. Some seem more accomplished than others at controlling a motor. Keith Edited October 13, 2014 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Now got my CoN etched nameplates (modelmaster), going to try using matt vanish to fix them, as suggested (sorry can't remember who by) earlier in this thread. Shame about reported motor problems, my railroad one just keeps on going, slow runner, very smooth, had it running each time I've spent any time in loft and it must have run 17 hrs or so in total, (ok, that's not a lot of it's service life but nothing's fallen off yet). That's on dc. Nice video, J.spencer, that C class sounds good. What chip is that? Loksound from Olivia's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 As you've discarded the original motor in favour of the 5-pole replacement, have you considered heating the flywheel on the old motor to expand it off the armature shaft and then pushing it onto the stub of armature shaft that projects from the rear of the 5 pole motor before it cools down again? Wow, is that all I need to do? I'd love the flywheel, the capacitors only make a slight difference! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 You might not even need to heat it or use anything fancy like a proper puller. if you don't want to save the original motor you could try just pulling the flywheel off, gripping the motor body or the old worm gear to get the necessary purchase. You presumably won't be bothered if either the motor bearings or the worm gear get wrecked by the pulling. Once the flywheel is off, you may be able to just lay it on the bench and press or lightly tap the armature shaft of the new motor home into the flywheel, keeping it square and straight as you do so. Only an idea...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Is there a good tip for keeping it square and straight? If the flywheel has any wobble it may create more problems than it solves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 @Colin - If you get the flywheel even a millimetre off centre the motor will oscillate and the loco will take on an alarming wobble. Perhaps someone ought to commission a set of appropriate etched nameplates 'Drunken Cock' ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Wow, is that all I need to do? I'd love the flywheel, the capacitors only make a slight difference! It should soon be possible to buy the tender pick ups for the TTS version as spares. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 How would one manage to get the flywheel a whole millimetre off-centre when the hole is pre-drilled dead-on? A mil is quite a lot compared to the size of the parts. Perhaps you could push the flywheel on squarely using a vice. Set the motor and flywheel up between the jaws with just enough light contact to hold them in place, use a square and the mark one eyeball to check that the armature shaft is perpendicular to the jaws of the vice in both the horizontal and vertical planes, then gently nip up the vice until the flywheel has gone on far enough to remain stable on the shaft. Obviously it doesn't want to go on so far that it tightens up against the motor body or interferes with re-fitting of the motor into its designated space in the chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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