Hornby P2

[Ian Hargrave]

I think you may have misunderstood - the original poster was complaining that the motor was "cheap and nasty", not that it was faulty. He wants a, presumably, expensive and nice motor fitted instead.

 

I find it fascinating that many people have been posting seemingly interminably that models cost too much, and they won't stand for it. Hornby now de-specs a new model to deliver it at a reduced cost, and people are now complaining that the spec is "cheap and nasty" and they want expensive motors. Presumably for no extra cash?

 

Who would be a manufacturer?

 

Perhaps we might allow him to reply in his own words . The meaning is unequivocal.His is OK ( So is mine...now) .Excellent news, Et maintenant,les autres ? There is NO misunderstanding.So please do not make that assumption. And for what it's worth,Hornby could and should do a lot better than they are doing in terms of producing products free from glaring faults.

Paul

[Fenman]

Perhaps we might allow him to reply in his own words . The meaning is unequivocal.His is OK ( So is mine...now) .Excellent news, Et maintenant,les autres ? There is NO misunderstanding.So please do not make that assumption. And for what it's worth,Hornby could and should do a lot better than they are doing in terms of producing products free from glaring faults

 

I fear you may indeed have misunderstood. The poster Bywell Burner, to whom Legend was replying, had written:

 

Does anyone know if Hornby have made any sort of announcement or statement of intent regarding the performance or replacement of this cheap and nasty motor that they have fitted to this otherwise very good model engine.

 

And if you look at that poster's only other comment on the P2, he wrote:

 

At last have eventually got my hands on a TTS version thanks to TMC and have to say that straight out of the box it runs very well maybe a little tight but is freeing up all the time it runs, but no problems running over points or curves [my emphasis]

 

So it appears that it is not a "faulty" motor about which he is complaining but, rather, one which is not of the high quality he wishes it to be.

 

Paul

[Ian Hargrave]

I fear you may indeed have misunderstood. The poster Bywell Burner, to whom Legend was replying, had written:

 

 

Does anyone know if Hornby have made any sort of announcement or statement of intent regarding the performance or replacement of this cheap and nasty motor that they have fitted to this otherwise very good model engine.

 

And if you look at that poster's only other comment on the P2, he wrote:

 

At last have eventually got my hands on a TTS version thanks to TMC and have to say that straight out of the box it runs very well maybe a little tight but is freeing up all the time it runs, but no problems running over points or curves [my emphasis]

 

So it appears that it is not a "faulty" motor about which he is complaining but, rather, one which is not of the high quality he wishes it to be.

 

Paul

Can we let the gentleman concerned speak for himself,please...and not via a spokesperson?

[Fenman]

Can we let the gentleman concerned speak for himself,please...and not via a spokesperson?

 

Are you suggesting I am a spokesperson? I find your comments a bit baffling.

 

Paul

[Ian Hargrave]

Are you suggesting I am a spokesperson? I find your comments a bit baffling.

 

Paul

Well,let's just say you have made a considerable effort on his behalf.

[Fenman]

Well,let's just say you have made a considerable effort on his behalf.

 

I do try to be helpful.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

I do try to be helpful.

 

Thank you

[melmerby]

I think you may have misunderstood - the original poster was complaining that the motor was "cheap and nasty", not that it was faulty. He wants a, presumably, expensive and nice motor fitted instead.

 

I find it fascinating that many people have been posting seemingly interminably that models cost too much, and they won't stand for it. Hornby now de-specs a new model to deliver it at a reduced cost, and people are now complaining that the spec is "cheap and nasty" and they want expensive motors. Presumably for no extra cash?

 

Who would be a manufacturer?

 

Paul

My take on this is as follows.

 

What Hornby should have produced:

New P2 Railroad model. Basic Livery, no tender pickups - DCC socket in loco, some other detail missing. basic motor with flywheel.

New P2 Main range model. Enhanced livery, tender pickups - DCC socket in tender, more detail, better motor (5 pole?)

New P2 Main range TTS model, Enhanced livery, tender pickups - DCC socket in tender, more detail, better motor (5 pole?).

 

Unfortunately IMHO the "Main Range" model has ended up too close to the Railroad version specification wise.

Only the TTS has tender pickups and DCC socket location and all locos have a very basic motor, the performance of which seems extremely variable from loco to loco.

 

I would have been willing to pay an extra £10 or so for tender pickups and 5 pole (Better, 5 pole, motors are definitely not that expensive) and the loco could well and truly be called part of the Main range. IMHO as it is it is not sufficiently superior to the basic loco!

If Hornby are going to do this again with future releases they should seriously think what "enhanced" should mean.

 

It is still however an extremely good loco at the price.

I just think Hornby dumbed down the enhanced version too much.

 

Keith

Edited October 22, 2014 by melmerby

[Legend]

 

No , because it's quite deliberate. It's not perceived as a fault so why rectify it. My own one runs very well

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

   That sounds like pull the ladder up im alright  Jack.

 

                               D.R.M.

 

Sorry didn't mean to sound like that

 

The original poster seemed to want a recall because the motor is cheap and nasty. But Hornby haven't made any secret of the fact that this loco is made to a price and that it has a three pole motor. To me it does exactly what it says on the tin, so I can't see need for recall on that basis. If models don't work then of course that's different , but I don't think that's what the OP was complaining about

[BruceV]

When I first got my P2 (main range model), it would not move in either direction until there was around 5 to 6 volts on the track and then it would race off.   I took the locomotive apart looking for any binding etc and after removing the motor I found the chassis to be very free running.   I then turned my attention to the motor and found that it was very notchy when turned by hand.   Seeking advice on the internet I came across this post about the P2 and its motor problems.   So I bit the bullet and purchased a 'King' motor off Ebay for less than £20 new and delivered.   When the motor arrived I checked it over and it turned with very little notching.   It took me about 20 minutes to exchange the motor and it was a direct drop in fit without any filing etc.   I put a drop of oil on the motor bearings and then let it run in for about 45 minutes each direction.   On my Hornby rollling road I can get the locomotive to run that slow that it takes 75 seconds to complete one wheel revolution.   On the club test track It will pull 10 of the latest type of Hornby Pullmans with no problems.

[Ian Hargrave]

Thank you for clearing that up..If,however,there is an issue with a batch of motors....and Heaven only knows how you identify those...then yes ,there should be a recall and a replacement of the defective models...made to a price or not.If it is not fit for purpose,whether it's budget range or not,then surely there is a duty on Hornby's part to make proper redress.The question unspoken seems to be 'What do you expect for the money.?' That is irrelevant here.A P2 that doesn't work or work to a satisfactory standard is an unnecessary waste of anyone's money and should not happen.

[robmcg]

When I first got my P2 (main range model), it would not move in either direction until there was around 5 to 6 volts on the track and then it would race off.   I took the locomotive apart looking for any binding etc and after removing the motor I found the chassis to be very free running.   I then turned my attention to the motor and found that it was very notchy when turned by hand.   Seeking advice on the internet I came across this post about the P2 and its motor problems.   So I bit the bullet and purchased a 'King' motor off Ebay for less than £20 new and delivered.   When the motor arrived I checked it over and it turned with very little notching.   It took me about 20 minutes to exchange the motor and it was a direct drop in fit without any filing etc.   I put a drop of oil on the motor bearings and then let it run in for about 45 minutes each direction.   On my Hornby rollling road I can get the locomotive to run that slow that it takes 75 seconds to complete one wheel revolution.   On the club test track It will pull 10 of the latest type of Hornby Pullmans with no problems.

Ah! I knew there was wisdom in buying a couple of current-range King class locos last month!

 

 

Rob

[mikesndbs]

My take on this is as follows.

 

What Hornby should have produced:

New P2 Railroad model. Basic Livery, no tender pickups - DCC socket in loco, some other detail missing. basic motor with flywheel.

New P2 Main range model. Enhanced livery, tender pickups - DCC socket in tender, more detail, better motor (5 pole?)

New P2 Main range TTS model, Enhanced livery, tender pickups - DCC socket in tender, more detail, better motor (5 pole?).

 

Unfortunately IMHO the "Main Range" model has ended up too close to the Railroad version specification wise.

Only the TTS has tender pickups and DCC socket location and all locos have a very basic motor, the performance of which seems extremely variable from loco to loco.

 

I would have been willing to pay an extra £10 or so for tender pickups and 5 pole (Better, 5 pole, motors are definitely not that expensive) and the loco could well and truly be called part of the Main range. IMHO as it is it is not sufficiently superior to the basic loco!

If Hornby are going to do this again with future releases they should seriously think what "enhanced" should mean.

 

It is still however an extremely good loco at the price.

I just think Hornby dumbed down the enhanced version too much.

 

Keith

 

 

Totally agree with you Keith, Hornby have indeed let themselves down with this one.

And before anyone rushes to their defence! we are all entitled to our opinions and mine is now set on this.

A Hejan - Clayton or Bachmann 4MT offer of a new 'good' motor 3 ot 5 pole and free work for those that need it would restore respect.

They chose to fit these unreliable 10 a penny motors, Bachmann have been using 3 pole for years with no issue so there was nothing to fear from the advice that the P2 was so equipped.

[Bywell Burner]

Thanks to the people who posted on here who support my point of view regarding the rather poor quality motor Hornby have fitted to this model, In my personnel opinion Hornby must be aware of the situation out in the field regarding the problems that many people are having with this model and really should be trying to address the problem through their support network. I for one would have been happy to pay more for a better quality motor as with most of their front line models.

[mikesndbs]

Thanks to the people who posted on here who support my point of view regarding the rather poor quality motor Hornby have fitted to this model, In my personnel opinion Hornby must be aware of the situation out in the field regarding the problems that many people are having with this model and really should be trying to address the problem through their support network. I for one would have been happy to pay more for a better quality motor as with most of their front line models.

 

I do not accept that fitting the 'already in stock' 5 pole motor that works well would have added any cost at all at source!

Mere pence between the two at the manufacturing level.

But, lets give them a chance to make this right.

[JSpencer]

The nothing wrong with idea of switching to a cheaper motor per se, its just they went for the cheapest motor which is not apt I'm afraid.

[DonnyRailMan]

I agree with above posts by J Spencer, Mike Sndbs & Bywell Burner.

Edited October 23, 2014 by DonnyRailMan

[Hilux5972]

The nothing wrong with idea of switching to a cheaper motor per se, its just they went for the cheapest motor which is not apt I'm afraid.

Your quite right there, it's not apt. That will have a top class motor from Rapido Trains

[Legend]

Thank you for clearing that up..If,however,there is an issue with a batch of motors....and Heaven only knows how you identify those...then yes ,there should be a recall and a replacement of the defective models...made to a price or not.If it is not fit for purpose,whether it's budget range or not,then surely there is a duty on Hornby's part to make proper redress.The question unspoken seems to be 'What do you expect for the money.?' That is irrelevant here.A P2 that doesn't work or work to a satisfactory standard is an unnecessary waste of anyone's money and should not happen.

 

Agree Ian.  Only problem is definition of" it does not work".  Again original poster has one that seems to go , he is just shocked its a cheep and nasty motor.   Also at what point would consumer law agree there is a problem?  I suspect they might not get the finer points of moving off slowly or motor revolving freely. Basically if it goes in any form of controllable manner I suspect they would think it OK.

[Ian Hargrave]

Agree Ian.  Only problem is definition of" it does not work".  Again original poster has one that seems to go , he is just shocked its a cheep and nasty motor.   Also at what point would consumer law agree there is a problem?  I suspect they might not get the finer points of moving off slowly or motor revolving freely. Basically if it goes in any form of controllable manner I suspect they would think it OK.[/quote

 

Depressing,isn't it ? But then you start to think,mine's now OK,runs smoothly,why doesn't his behave in the same way?.Stationmaster Mike quotes elsewhere of a retailer who's had 50% of his allocation returned as non runners,as was originally the case with mine until Alex worked his magic with insulation tape.

If it is not behaving itself to your satisfaction and you can't fix it ,it should be a replacement to your satisfaction or a refund.All samples,without exception should be able to perform smoothly and quietly.Consumer law need not apply.Good customer relations and transparency are all that's needed.

[Sir Topham Hatt]

Hi all, not new here but I've been distracted by other hobbies for the past ten years!  I've been following this very useful thread for some weeks and may be able to assist some of you who have experienced problems. 

 

Firstly, availability.  Some time go I asked Hornby, via their website, to notify me when the P2 detailed loco arrived.  They e-mailed me some months later on a Friday a couple of week ago, I went onto their site on the Saturday and it arrived on the Tuesday, just before the shops got their supply.  Okay, I paid the full £120 but I got one no trouble.  Worth noting maybe?

 

'Got one no trouble'?  Well, like others I found a few probelms.  It arrived with a broken front buffer head when the non-sprung plastic buffer hadn't been fully inserted into it's hole in the buffer beam and had no doubt snapped in the post.  I rang Hornby. "Sorry, we've no spares for the P2, send it back and we'll refund you".  No, I'd waited long enough so a quick hunt through my bit's box(s) revealed a pair of matching suitable spares.  No spares at Hornby though!

 

I then set about fitting a decoder - no DC at home but it appeared to run fine on a nearly dud PP9!  First up was a DCCConcepts 4 function with harness decoder but the loco behaved more like a kangaroo when starting/stopping!  As the Prodigy was slowly advanced through positions 1-3 of 128 it would suddenly leap forward a few inches then stop, pause and repeat the performance.  The same applied when stopping.  I tried playing with the start voltage, BEMF settings but to no avail.  Okay, maybe t's the decoder?  I fitted one of th new Hattons 8 pin 4 function direct fit models, great value at £13 and made by DCC Concepts but with a Hattons shrink wrap at a fraction of the price (as I believe are are all Hattons decoders)!  No change, except that there were now no wires to put up with - btw, the cable run to and from beneath the rear cab exists only to accommodate a TV suppressor so can be cat out and just the two motor wires cut short to the motor tags, which incidentally were reversed wired on my can so that was corrected too.

 

I removed the underside plate and all appeared to be free moving (and that included more than 50% of the screw that shouldn't be free moving - suggest you check all of yours) and anyway the loco seemed to run freely once it had got moving above speed setting 4, still slow.  No, it seemed like the motor might be at fault.

 

I kept reading the forums in hope of a solution and, frustrated, put in a call to Hornby for an explanation - I mean, they must be aware of the problem!  Unfortunately, as I expect you know, you can't always get past the telephone receptionist but left a full technical message for her to pass to the service team 'who would ring me back'.  In the mean time I called Peter's spares - a mine of help and info every time.  Yes, they had both spare P2 motors, common to a couple of other Hornby locos apparently, and also the 5 pole 'king' motor which they thought might fit but were awaiting customer feedback to confirm this (this has been covered in posts above).  The next day, this morning in fact, the postie arrived with a box from Hornby and in it was a replacement P2 motor with flywheel, pinion and wires fitted.  There had been no return call and there was no paperwork in the box which suggests to me that Hornby are indeed aware of the problem and have maybe agreed a policy to send a replacement to any one who calls with problems?  I don't actually know as when I called Hornby no one was available but, if this is the case, why don't they post this on a few forums so their customers don't suffer unnecessarily?

 

So, out with the old and in with the new...... while I held both in my hands I compared them by turning the armature over.  The new one was very free moving with very little magnetic pull whereas the 'old' one was free in it's bearings but the armature/magnet pull was far more apparent.  After dismantling the motor mount (upper chassis casting) and fitting the new can - make sure you gently pull the spare front cables straight so they can travel freely through the lower chassis casting when opening the clamp and then pull it gently upwards when refitting the upper chassis so they don't get caught between the two parts - and then tried it on the track.

 

Perfection!  The out of the bag motor ran so smoothly that it would start with the start voltage set at only 1, the lowest setting of all my well used 100+ locos!  At speed setting one it started very smoothly, moving forwards so slowly that you could barely see it moving at all.  Same in reverse.  It's still not the quietest loco I have but certainly one of the best movers.

 

So what advice can I offer?  I guess that if you are still suffering a similar problem you call Hornby and ask for a replacement standard P2 motor and keep doing so until you get a goodun.  BTW, I've let Peter's spares know the full story and they plan to check their stock for any 'sticky' examples.

 

Other problems?  Well, I had expected better detailing.  The art work is fantastic, even withe the rear tender lining being too high but I had expected 'proper' hand rails rather that molded ones, however well printed they are.  The Hornby website loco description refers under 'special features' the super detailed tender.  The tender detailing reminds me of an old 1980's A3 motorised tender.  Are they supposed to be tender water valves on the front of the wrongly coloured tender!  Still, at least it allowed us modellers to use some of our almost redundant skills again - fitting of extra hand rails etc!  BTW, the after market etched name plates look so much better than the plates supplied - even the printed plates looked better!

 

Okay, grumble over and I don't want my first post for 10 years to appear too grumpy but I hope my experiences help others and, all in all, I'm now delighted with my latest aquisition and, despite the economical downward trend applied by Hornby for this loco and their apparent quality control problems, they did do their best to quickly rectify the issues once notified.  Don't worry Hornby, I'll be back (or is that a threat? ;¬)

 

Good to be back,

John

[brittannia]

It appears to be luck of draw whether you have a good runner or a bad one,
Any way I received my main range P2 a while ago from MRD for £92.50. {their 2nd batch price honoured] and have only just got round to fit a decoder . I thought to try out the loco with a Bachmann 2function decoder I have spare to try locos out, the P2 would only start with a nudge and then at 45/128 speed steps, I normally use Lenz decoders and always intended putting one in the Loco. I fitted the Lenz decoder in the P2 on speedstep !28 it moved slowly without any nudges and proceeded through the speedsteps smoothly..I think this does show a quality decoder will make a difference to its running

[brittannia]

I purchased the P2 a while ago from MDR for a price honoured £92.50 in their 2nd batch, I have just got round to fitting a decoder, my intention of fitting a Lenz decoder

, However as I did not have one hand and until I purchased one I decided to try a cheap Bachmann function 2 decoder that I had , with this fitted the P2 did not move until 50/128 speedsteps and that with a nudge, it did then go smoothly through higher speedsteps,I purchased my Lenz decoder and fitted it into the P2 and it started to move at speedstep1/128, without any help and then it ran smoothly through higher speedsteps,no jumping , lurching, so a quality decoder is definitely a must and luck perhaps to have a good runner.

[Dominion]

My sample size is up to 4 P2 motors now.

 

One chassis ran sweetly straight from the box.

The other chassis is now on its third P2 motor.

 

The first motor was notchy between the magnets as is described earlier in this thread by a few people (On DC, well run in, and on DCC with a  good chip and lots of programming and out of the chassis)

 

The second, a replacement from the retailer, started smoothly but was noisy, as described in my earlier post. I have since traced that to some form of vibration or resonance in the can on the flat side next to the terminals close to the plastic end end.  Slight pressure in the spot required stops the noise, but I have not figured out how to keep pressure on that spot, though i suspect that is possible. That has not become any quieter with running.

 

The third motor for this chassis arrived in Canada yesterday directly form Hornby. It starts fine and is less noisy, but it vibrates when out of the chassis significantly more than the others, and must be a little out of balance.  I may not have noticed if I had not been testing it for starting behavior and "notchyness".   It seems to run OK in the chassis though. If the chassis had come with this motor I would likely have been quite satisfied.

 

I would guess there must be some tolerance issues in one or more of the components in the motor that is leading to this variability. Even Gresley's designs were thought by their crews and sheds to differ in their steaming and running characteristics from apparently the same design so I will choose to view this as a bit of added modelling realism :-)  

 

However, I had already ordered the King motor as a spare and that just arrived so I am off to try that one.

 

Despite my motor issues I am still delighted with the model.  The one with issues ran well on the third attempt, and the other ran well from the beginning. I would have no qualms about buying another if it were a bigger class and there were an excuse to run them. Certainly if Hornby chooses to make variations of the class I would definitely buy them. I would also hope they fit a more consistent motor to those.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Dominion

[kingfisher24]

Just a quick question - does Hornby tts work on normal dc?